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Has France EVER won a war?

Chomper98

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A funny thing I came across is that in almost every war, France loses, and when it does win, its because it has help from allies. Here is my list of wars that France lost, that I know of.

Queen Anne's War
7 years War
Napoleonic Wars
Franco-Prussian War
World War II(It was defeated, even though the allies won as a whole). Anyone notice this?


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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The thing about the Napoleonic Wars is that they only lost the last one.,

It is true that their track record is not great. But they did assist the American Revolutionary War, mainly to get back at Britain for the French & Indian Wars. They also had a much better success rate in naval warfare, as Jon Stewart's America: The Book parodies.


Chomper98

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Quote from: LettuceBacon&Tomato,Sep 13 2012 on  06:37 PM
The thing about the Napoleonic Wars is that they only lost the last one.,

It is true that their track record is not great. But they did assist the American Revolutionary War, mainly to get back at Britain for the French & Indian Wars. They also had a much better success rate in naval warfare, as Jon Stewart's America: The Book parodies.
I know, but thats when I said allies.


WeirdRaptor

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They might have lost the Napoleonic War, but they had everyone else afraid that they'd conquer Europe a second time after that. Hell, that's why they were allowed into the Congress of Vienna as a full party. Every other member was freaking terrified of them.

Yeah, France has a weird tendency to win lots of battles when they put in the effort, but lose the war, or come to a draw, or win a victory that just wasn't worth it. Still, they do still have a huge military force and a bunch of nukes.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


DarkHououmon

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I'm pretty sure the French army has a pretty good track record, winning 109 battles or something like that.


Malte279

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For some reason it has become fashionable among certain people to ridicule France when it comes to military history. It seems like this habbit has increased ever since France refused to join the war in Iraq and French fries were temporarily renamed "freedom fries" by certain people. Of the 168 recorded major wars France has fought since 387BC (admittedly this would include people who just happened to live in the region which became later known as France) they won 109 lost 49 and in case of 10 wars there was no clear outcome. French military history includes the conquest of England in 1066 by the Normans, and the defeat of the English in the hundred years war in spite of having suffered terrible defeats throughout said war. With the Napoleonic wars their final defeat perhaps is not so much to be attributed to any stupid anti-French cheese-eating sureender monkey kind of stereotype, but rather to the fact that they were in a two front war against pretty much every other major European power (and several smaller countries) existing at the time after they had defeated most of them in war a few years before (in some cases repeatedly). France had provided the support without which the American War of independence would not have been won. And people (sorry if I'm now stereotyping myself, but it seems like it is almost always Americans issuing such anti-French litanys) who mock France for being defeated in WW2 tend to forget that this took place little more than 20 years after WW1 in which France had probably suffered more deaths in four years than the US have suffered in every single war the US was ever involved in combined. 5.7 million military casualties in just one war in spite of the French population being a lot smaller than the US population at the time of WW1 if it wasn't utterly disrespectful and on the same level as any cheese-eating surrender monkey comments I could make a few remarks about the effect the American casualties in the Vietnam war had on the fighting morale and unlike in case of France that was a fight against an enemy whose military means were far less developed.

Frankly Chomper98, can't you take a bit of the nationalist tone out of your otherwise interesting history threads?


DarkHououmon

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Quote from: Malte279,Sep 13 2012 on  08:26 PM
Of the 168 recorded major wars France has fought since 387BC (admittedly this would include people who just happened to live in the region which became later known as France) they won 109 lost 49 and in case of 10 wars there was no clear outcome.
I thought so. I wasn't sure if I remembered right or not.

I find it rather sad that France's army is stereotyped as cowardly just because of a few losses, not taking into account that they won most of the wars they were involved in. And this stereotype tends to sink into media as well. In the Sonic Saturday morning cartoon, the french character, Antoine, is shown as cowardly.


WeirdRaptor

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These people who also dismiss the French also don't take how important and instrumental the French Underground was during World War II. Sure, the nation might have fallen, but it's people fought on as best they could.

I remember the Freedom Fry phase with much shame. I never took part in the name change, personally. In fact, I always thought it was kind of dumb.
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Chomper98

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I don't mean to sound nationalistic. Your right about a lot, but still, it just seems that no matter how close they come to winning, they get beaten. But still France is better at so much other stuff, fries, food, peace, so on, just not that good at war. Of course France saved our butts in the Revolutionary War, infact, it was similar to Ameirca's civil war. only Europe's countries supported the colonies. Infact, I think their was one historical event where I think the French defeated England. Correct me if I am wrong.


Pterano

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They defeated them at sea for sure. Admiral Graves made two very bad decisions that allowed Admiral de Grasse to defeat him at the Battle of the Chesapeake. Instead of attacking the anchored French ships immediately, Graves chose to wait, and then, when the French fleet started sailing, Graves went right in after them instead of aligning his ships at the mouth of the Chesapeake to rake the advancing French ships. In an equal contest, the French navy at that time was simply superior in gunnery, aggression, and training to the British navy, and de Grassed defeated Graves rather handily and in a well deserved victory.

Also, France won 5 of the 7 Wars of the Coalition during the Revolution and Napoleon's time. They won the First, Second, Third, Fourth, and Fifth Wars of the Coalitions and came to dominate Europe for a period of almost 20 years. They lost the next two due to overwhelming numbers and a decline in their quality. But for that period, they were the most powerful army in Europe, and even after their loss they continued to be the most powerful army in Europe until their defeat in the Franco-Prussian War.

They lost early on in WWII due to faulty Allied strategy. The British and French both agreed to advance to the Dyle River due to the Germans having employed a strategy in the previous world war of outflanking France by invading Belgium. They assumed this would be Germany's strategy as well this time around. They weren't defeated in head on combat, they were defeated because Germany invaded the Netherlands and through the Ardennes, outflanking the Allies on the left and right and cutting them off from France. The bulk of the Allied army was able to withdraw to Dunkirk however because the Germans advanced too fast, outran their supply ran, and were unable to decisively smash the withdrawing BEF. The Germans simply won through superior strategy, because they were outnumbered in everything but planes when they were facing the Allies at the start of the Invasion of France. The French had more tanks and soldiers, and the Germans knew they wouldn't be able to win in a head on contest, so chose their outflanking strategy and it worked very well. It's the same exact strategy that General Tommy Franks employed when he invaded Iraq. He bypassed all the Iraqi strongpoints and headed right for Baghdad, leaving the bulk of the Iraqi military to wither on the vine.

So in conclusion, and based on the stats Malte provided, I would say that France has no more lost or won any greater number of wars than any other major European nation out there, and they certainly had their day in the sun as the world's most powerful land army around the turn of the 19th Century.

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