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Jurassic World: Dominion (2022)

Gentle Sharptooth

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“Life finds a way.”

The best storyline IMHO is to emphasize that everyone who aurvived Isla Nublar and Isla Sorna are the experts on how to co-exist (survive) with dinos.

I wish everyone made a cameo, including Amanda, Paul, and Eric Kirby from Jurassic Park III.
Tim, Lex, Kelly, Nick, and Billy.

Them too. I say get everyone back (who wasn’t eaten). ;)

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


shaiger

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Is it bad to say that the CG in the Walking with Dinosaurs movie looks a lot better than the CG in these films?

Do you think its laziness? That artists and animators no longer put the attention to detail in anymore? Or is it money based, the movie companies want to save money by not spending more on detailed designs and blending with real world environments? Or is there another factor?

I think I might have a little insight to this!
You're definitely on the right track, the reason being money based, but – as it is always with Hollywood – it goes a bit deeper than that. To put it short, it's because CGI studios haven't unionized.

Practical effects in the movie industry became obsolete in a short period of time, considering how popular they were (King Kong, E.T, Die Hard, you name it), and I kinda hate to admit it, but Jurassic Park had a big influence on this. The CGI in it was something that nobody had seen before, and it truly showed the full potential of what CGI could accomplish (at that time, nevertheless). While the practical effects in the movie were stupendous, it was the CGI that made it a box-office hit. Not the sick Triceratops or the Dilophosaurus in the car, but the Brachiosaurus towering over the humans like an edifice, and the iconic sideview mirror shot of the T-Rex chasing the main characters. Those scenes were some of the reasons what made Jurassic Park a milestone in the history of cinema.

CGI is faster and cheaper than practical effects (but not necessarily easier), and when Hollywood saw what kind of movies you could do with CGI, it was a no-brainer for them to go with the cheaper option. But, it's not just because it's cheaper – it's because there is no union to protect the workers in CGI Studios. What this means is that the competition in the industry is staggering (everyone wants to get to big projects like Jurassic World etc.), the CGI animators have to work crunch time/forced overtime because there is no proper regulation for their work hours, safety or payment.

One nasty example is the Sonic movie redesign. Before the movie was released, the first trailer had a very negative response from the audience – everyone criticized how Sonic looked, and I agree, it was pretty horrible. So, after the initial response they changed the design, and it meant that all the scenes with Sonic's old design had to be done over again. It took five months to finish, raised the budget another $5 million, and after the redesign got a positive reaction (and the movie was another blockbuster) the CGI company branch that was responsible for it, got shut down. CGI takes a lot of time to look good, and while I think Sonic looks okay, it was really unfair on the workers. Same with the new Cats musical. People blame the CGI studio employees when it is not their fault. If you don't have the time and resources (and a healthy work environment) to do your work right, of course it's gonna be a mess.

And here's where "Do you think it's laziness? That artists and animators no longer put the attention to detail anymore?" comes in. It's not that they don't want to put attention to detail, it's because they have to cut corners to get as much done as fast as they can, as cheap as they can. Big studios don't really care if a dinosaur is anatomically correct, or has the right amount of teeth, or if they have feathers or scales or what. They want them to be marketable and make a profit. And when big companies don't care about the craftmanship and artistry, it makes CGI artists more or less cynical. CGI studios are easily exploited, and especially with Disney buying and destroying other studios it makes working in the industry very, very hard.

So I would say that yes, it's money related, but because of that, the people working on the Jurassic World CGI can't live up to their full potential.

Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to seeing Dominion. Personally I can't imagine it being worse than The Fallen Kingdom, but my hopes aren't too high. At least I'm going to see dinosaurs other than raptors and t-rexes :')


Gentle Sharptooth

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Is it bad to say that the CG in the Walking with Dinosaurs movie looks a lot better than the CG in these films?

Do you think its laziness? That artists and animators no longer put the attention to detail in anymore? Or is it money based, the movie companies want to save money by not spending more on detailed designs and blending with real world environments? Or is there another factor?

I think I might have a little insight to this!
You're definitely on the right track, the reason being money based, but – as it is always with Hollywood – it goes a bit deeper than that. To put it short, it's because CGI studios haven't unionized.

Practical effects in the movie industry became obsolete in a short period of time, considering how popular they were (King Kong, E.T, Die Hard, you name it), and I kinda hate to admit it, but Jurassic Park had a big influence on this. The CGI in it was something that nobody had seen before, and it truly showed the full potential of what CGI could accomplish (at that time, nevertheless). While the practical effects in the movie were stupendous, it was the CGI that made it a box-office hit. Not the sick Triceratops or the Dilophosaurus in the car, but the Brachiosaurus towering over the humans like an edifice, and the iconic sideview mirror shot of the T-Rex chasing the main characters. Those scenes were some of the reasons what made Jurassic Park a milestone in the history of cinema.

CGI is faster and cheaper than practical effects (but not necessarily easier), and when Hollywood saw what kind of movies you could do with CGI, it was a no-brainer for them to go with the cheaper option. But, it's not just because it's cheaper – it's because there is no union to protect the workers in CGI Studios. What this means is that the competition in the industry is staggering (everyone wants to get to big projects like Jurassic World etc.), the CGI animators have to work crunch time/forced overtime because there is no proper regulation for their work hours, safety or payment.

One nasty example is the Sonic movie redesign. Before the movie was released, the first trailer had a very negative response from the audience – everyone criticized how Sonic looked, and I agree, it was pretty horrible. So, after the initial response they changed the design, and it meant that all the scenes with Sonic's old design had to be done over again. It took five months to finish, raised the budget another $5 million, and after the redesign got a positive reaction (and the movie was another blockbuster) the CGI company branch that was responsible for it, got shut down. CGI takes a lot of time to look good, and while I think Sonic looks okay, it was really unfair on the workers. Same with the new Cats musical. People blame the CGI studio employees when it is not their fault. If you don't have the time and resources (and a healthy work environment) to do your work right, of course it's gonna be a mess.

And here's where "Do you think it's laziness? That artists and animators no longer put the attention to detail anymore?" comes in. It's not that they don't want to put attention to detail, it's because they have to cut corners to get as much done as fast as they can, as cheap as they can. Big studios don't really care if a dinosaur is anatomically correct, or has the right amount of teeth, or if they have feathers or scales or what. They want them to be marketable and make a profit. And when big companies don't care about the craftmanship and artistry, it makes CGI artists more or less cynical. CGI studios are easily exploited, and especially with Disney buying and destroying other studios it makes working in the industry very, very hard.

So I would say that yes, it's money related, but because of that, the people working on the Jurassic World CGI can't live up to their full potential.

Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to seeing Dominion. Personally I can't imagine it being worse than The Fallen Kingdom, but my hopes aren't too high. At least I'm going to see dinosaurs other than raptors and t-rexes :')

Very good points, Jurassic Park is the guikty culprit that made CGi the go to for creature films. However, I personally believe it was pratical shots combined with CGI that mde Jurassic Park a masterpiece. The close up for animatronics, and they have held up well, while some of CG is now dated. The fact people were in Raptor suites, giving them personalities and life made it more believable, and terrifying. The CG helped as you said for the full body shots, but without the animatronics I think the movie would look very dated. Alien is another good example, most of it was practical effects and it has held up well.

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


shaiger

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Very good points, Jurassic Park is the guikty culprit that made CGi the go to for creature films. However, I personally believe it was pratical shots combined with CGI that mde Jurassic Park a masterpiece. The close up for animatronics, and they have held up well, while some of CG is now dated. The fact people were in Raptor suites, giving them personalities and life made it more believable, and terrifying. The CG helped as you said for the full body shots, but without the animatronics I think the movie would look very dated. Alien is another good example, most of it was practical effects and it has held up well.

I didn't at any point say that the practical effects had no influence on JP's popularity. I agree with you that it's the CGI + practical effects combination that made it such a huge success (especially when they used CGI in parts that they couldn't do practically), and I firmly believe that it would've been a box office hit even without all the CGI. Personally I prefer practical effects because - as you said it - they are more believable. You can't fake real, y'know? But my point was that "Jurassic Park used amazing CGI that hadn't been seen before in the mid-90's + Jurassic Park was a box office hit and made a lot of money = Hollywood saw that with proper CGI you can make a lot of money = CGI took over practical effects." I'm not solely blaming JP on this but you get my point  :DD

To be fair, I know that Universal has the money to hire practical effects studios to make amazing animatronics and use CGI in places where it's absolutely necessary, but because it takes longer to produce and excecute than CGI, it won't happen. I think it worked for the first trilogy and films such as Alien vs Predator (I know the movie is kinda meh, but it had a cool combination of practical effects and CGI, and this is the hill I'm going to die on xD)


Gentle Sharptooth

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Very good points, Jurassic Park is the guikty culprit that made CGi the go to for creature films. However, I personally believe it was pratical shots combined with CGI that mde Jurassic Park a masterpiece. The close up for animatronics, and they have held up well, while some of CG is now dated. The fact people were in Raptor suites, giving them personalities and life made it more believable, and terrifying. The CG helped as you said for the full body shots, but without the animatronics I think the movie would look very dated. Alien is another good example, most of it was practical effects and it has held up well.

I didn't at any point say that the practical effects had no influence on JP's popularity. I agree with you that it's the CGI + practical effects combination that made it such a huge success (especially when they used CGI in parts that they couldn't do practically), and I firmly believe that it would've been a box office hit even without all the CGI. Personally I prefer practical effects because - as you said it - they are more believable. You can't fake real, y'know? But my point was that "Jurassic Park used amazing CGI that hadn't been seen before in the mid-90's + Jurassic Park was a box office hit and made a lot of money = Hollywood saw that with proper CGI you can make a lot of money = CGI took over practical effects." I'm not solely blaming JP on this but you get my point  :DD

To be fair, I know that Universal has the money to hire practical effects studios to make amazing animatronics and use CGI in places where it's absolutely necessary, but because it takes longer to produce and excecute than CGI, it won't happen. I think it worked for the first trilogy and films such as Alien vs Predator (I know the movie is kinda meh, but it had a cool combination of practical effects and CGI, and this is the hill I'm going to die on xD)

A worthy hill to die on. I just saw Carpenter’s The Thing 1982 for the first time and those practical effects haunt me! They were superb and stomach wrenching! 

I agree CG is easier, but I prefer Practical effects with some CG.

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


LittleDas75

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Well so far the animatronics in this film look really fake personally. I mean their well detailed but they look very off to me.


Gentle Sharptooth

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Well so far the animatronics in this film look really fake personally. I mean their well detailed but they look very off to me.

Any scenes in the trailer in particular? I want to know what to look at so I can opine.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 05:43:51 AM by Gentle Sharptooth »

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


LittleDas75

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The Dilophosaurus. Also the Pyroraptor animatronic was recently shown on a magazine and it doesn't look very realistic.


Gentle Sharptooth

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The Dilophosaurus. Also the Pyroraptor animatronic was recently shown on a magazine and it doesn't look very realistic.

Yeah the Pyroraptor looks well.. like a suite for an actor.



I gotta say I see why Universal refrained from the bird like Velociraptor design till now, it looks to quote a kid from JP, “That doesn't look very scary. More like a six-foot turkey.”
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 01:58:08 PM by Gentle Sharptooth »

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


Gentle Sharptooth

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Some new posters:




“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


LittleDas75

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I am really dreading their explanation of how Blue managed to have a baby.


Gentle Sharptooth

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I am really dreading their explanation of how Blue managed to have a baby.

I suspect we will see the villian, the Feather Raptor say to Blue’s Baby, “I am your father.” Ugh. Or it will be that Blue reproduced Asexually, because she is the supreme raptor! Dr. Henry Wu created a pure bloodline that can reproduce itself!  :thudLOL

Honestly, I preferred when the Velociraptors (really Utahraptors and Deinonychus) were the antagonists. Going Terminator 2 and making them giod removes a lot of suspense. 

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


LittleDas75

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I am really dreading their explanation of how Blue managed to have a baby.

I suspect we will see the villian, the Feather Raptor say to Blue’s Baby, “I am your father.” Ugh.
I didn't want to say that straight up but that's the explanation that I'm most scared their going to go for.


Gentle Sharptooth

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I am really dreading their explanation of how Blue managed to have a baby.

I suspect we will see the villian, the Feather Raptor say to Blue’s Baby, “I am your father.” Ugh.
I didn't want to say that straight up but that's the explanation that I'm most scared their going to go for.

I can see it now with Owen/ Chris Pratt. Alan Grant asks what the raptor said, Own replies: It said, “I am your father!”

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


Gentle Sharptooth

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Saw The Jurassic World Dominion toys at the store today. Not impressed.

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


Gentle Sharptooth

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SPOILER ALERT!!!
About the new villianasaur of Dominion.

Spoiler: ShowHide
 The main villian is Giganotosaurus, which isn’t really new, but the design from the toy is basically a Indominus Rex that is camoflage green



The Gigantosaurus has a ridge back or fin that looks like Concavenator:





Which makes me wonder if its another hybrid like The Indominus Rex and Indoraptor.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 04:44:39 PM by Gentle Sharptooth »

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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I am really dreading their explanation of how Blue managed to have a baby.

I haven't seen the last few Jurassic Worlds, but could it not be the west-african frog DNA that allowed the Isla Nublar dinosaurs to start reproducing back in the day?


Gentle Sharptooth

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Quote from: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on April 21, 2022, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on April 21, 2022, 04:50:28 PM
I am really dreading their explanation of how Blue managed to have a baby.

I haven't seen the last few Jurassic Worlds, but could it not be the west-african frog DNA that allowed the Isla Nublar dinosaurs to start reproducing back in the day?

Good point. The dinos in this are from Isla Nublar, not Isla Sorna. So yes they have that frog mutant DNA.

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith


LittleDas75

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Quote from: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on April 21, 2022, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on April 21, 2022, 04:50:28 PM
I am really dreading their explanation of how Blue managed to have a baby.

I haven't seen the last few Jurassic Worlds, but could it not be the west-african frog DNA that allowed the Isla Nublar dinosaurs to start reproducing back in the day?

Good point. The dinos in this are from Isla Nublar, not Isla Sorna. So yes they have that frog mutant DNA.
But don't they need another member of their species to re-produce. As far as I know Blue is the only adult Velociraptor in the canon at this point. Unless one of the other 2 Raptors in this film is the father which I don't even want to think about :doofahCringe.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 07:54:58 PM by LittleDas75 »


Gentle Sharptooth

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From what I understand Dr. Henry Wu in Fallen Kingdom was breeding raptors, he even said he needed Blue to make a next gen Indoraptor. Henry had all those eggs and samples.

“The Past is Gone..” -Dream On, Aerosmith