The Gang of Five

The Land Before Time => 1988 Theatrical Release => Topic started by: pokeplayer984 on November 24, 2005, 12:13:17 PM

Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: pokeplayer984 on November 24, 2005, 12:13:17 PM
Okay, I'm sure we all know that this was coming for a long time, but why do you think Littlefoot wanted to get rid of him once and for all?

For one reason or another, Littlefoot wanted to get rid of Sharptooth forever.

Why did he want to get rid of him?

I have two guesses to this.

1: Avenge his mother.  It's great reason in the end.  Sharptooth did cause that wound that made Littlefoot's mother bleed to death.  He wanted to end the pain he was feeling.  The only way to do that was to kill Sharptooth.  However, he knew it meant his death if he did it alone.  So he asked his new friends to help him.  He avenged his mother in the end, but at the cost of nearly losing Petrie.

2: If he didn't kill him, the Valley would've been in danger.  With how often the gang ran into Sharptooth through out the movie, it did seem that he was following them.  If he didn't kill him when he did, chances are that he would've followed them to the Valley.  And we all know how bad of a thing that would've been.

---------

What do you guys think?
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Malte279 on November 24, 2005, 12:48:55 PM
Though I don't think that even Littlefoot is absolutely above such low emotions as revengefulness I don't think that it was his main reason for killing sharptooth.
I really think that it was mainly the threat of sharpteeth possibly finding the Great Valley. The movie as it is does not support this point of mine as Littlefoot hasn't found the Great Valley by the time they fight with sharptooth.
However, I have good reasons to believe that the original concept of the movie was different. When the movie was first made Littlefoot found the Great Valley right after the quarrel with Cera and he returned to lead the others there. In this case the 2nd theory becomes much more likely.
I own a book from 1988 which was published along with the movies and which tells the story variant of Littlefoot finding the Valley before he returned to get the others. I do not have the book at hand right now, so I cannot quote the literal text, but I'm positive that in the book they say sharptooth is about to find the entrance to the Valley when Littlefoot and the others decide to kill him.
Even with the movie being the way it is now I still don't think Littlefoot was compelled by mere revenge. Sharptooth was too dangerous to take the risk of combating him for the mere satisfaction of "getting rid of him". If the choice had been left to Littlefoot I suppose they would have stayed as far from sharptooth as possibly possible. However, with sharptooth right on their route to the Great Valley there was hardly another choice.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Stitch on November 25, 2005, 01:05:47 AM
I have that book.  Here's the text from chapters 8-9 that shows the alternate storyline:

Quote
There, on the plain that overlooked the Great Valley, was Sharptooth.  He was searching for the entrance to the valley!

Littlefoot realized that they had led Sharptooth to the valley.  He knew that the herds would be helpless against the monster.  He and his friends had to stop Sharptooth.

(Littlefoot) "We've got to get Sharptooth away form the high rocks before he finds the entrance...And then we'll have to work together to kill him."

The way it is portrayed in the final movie, it seems that Littlefoot and the others were just fed up with being chased by sharptooth and decided to strike back.  I agree in thinking that he realized the danger sharptooth possessed and decided to risk it in order to prevent any future losses.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Petrie. on November 25, 2005, 08:19:47 PM
Makes you wonder why they ever bothered to delete that portion of the film.  I think it would explain the really bad cut when Littlefoot does find the valley but the pan of him clearly is in a different place...  :rolleyes:
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: WeirdRaptor on November 26, 2005, 04:01:28 PM
1. Not only were they running into sharpteeh every inch of the way throughout their journey, but it was the exact same Sharptooth that they kept having encounters with. This means that he was deliberately stalking them. Heck, I'd kill him, too.
2. Through stalking them, he might have found the Great Valley.
3. He killed Littlefoot's mother.

I, for one, think that the big, bad sharptooth had his fate coming to him.

And good points on the original cut of the film versus the current cut, everyone. It makes one realize how we've actually been screwed over, doesn't it?
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: pokeplayer984 on December 18, 2005, 12:24:51 PM
Okay, terribly sorry for not responding earlier.  I ended up completely forgetting about this topic.

Anyways, yeah you're right Malte, the second one seems more logical.  Considering everything, it makes alot more sense.  However, what really got me into believing the revenge thing was basically Littlefoot's tone and quick debating on what to do.

He basically didn't think things through, and didn't realize the full extent of the danger that he was putting everyone in.  He even went and put Ducky at the biggest risk.  I know she was the only choice left to lure Sharptooth, granted.  However, Ducky was incredably reluctant.  So reluctant in fact, that it seemed impossible to convince her.  I must say, her bravery to go through with the plan definately exceeds her small size.

Anyways, I noted that Littlefoot seemed to have a devlish smirk on his face when he looked at Ducky for something to use as bait.  To me, in the fullest jurisdiction, it seemed that revenge was highly on his mind.  It is true that we don't see such a thing in his mind these days, but what about back then?  Before the final battle against Sharptooth?  The thought of revenge plauging his mind, begging him to do so?  With him believing that Sharptooth was dead, probably not.  However, he seemed to have a great amount of recklessness in him.

Basically, Petrie nearly dying was a wake-up call to him.  It finally hit him.  True, it was probably the best plan that could be thought up at the time.  However, does that justify that he nearly lost a friend?  I think not.

In all truthfulness, I believe Littlefoot did have revenge on his mind and it took nearly loosing a friend to wake him up from this.

He lives with the pain, because of how wrong he knew it was for him to get revenge.

That's basically my two cents really. :)
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Malte279 on December 18, 2005, 01:47:23 PM
Hi pokeplayer984!
I will not question that Littlefoot probably felt a certain satisfaction beside the relief about getting rid of sharptooth. We would not have wanted him standing there beside Ducky saying: "Poor, poor sharptooth!"
There was no need for a message like: How horrible we had to do it, but we had to for nobody would have demanded a great deal of sympathy from Littlefoot for that particular sharptooth. It would have either come across as Littlefoot being the utopian character bare of any negative emotion (which he mercifully isn't), or he would have come across as a hypocrite.
I don't doubt there must have been something like satisfaction for him to get rid of that sharptooth.
However, if it comes to the question on whether that was the reason for him to kill sharptooth and risk everybody else's life by doing so, I say definitely not!
Had there been a way for Littlefoot and the others to get to the Great Valley without taking another huge risk (which positively lessened their chances to ever see the Great Vally) I doubt not that they would have done so.
Littlefoot is just not the revengeful nature who would stand there proclaiming something like: "Never shall I set a foot (however little they may be ;)) in the Great Valley before I haveth not spilled my foe's blood and satisfied my thirst for revenge!" Nor do I believe that he would think along these lines (lest in a poor imitation of middle English ;)
He must have seen that particular chance the terrain offered to attack the sharptooth (not one of those LBT 10 whimps that will almost drop death if a hazelnut sized peble is hurled at it) so what other debate would have been necessary. While he laid out his plan to the others there was a look of grim determination on his face; nothing like dreamy thoughts of revenge.
As for that look of Littlefoot's, you undoubtedly meant the one shown on this image: http://mitglied.lycos.de/malte279/The%20la...0the%20bait.jpg (http://mitglied.lycos.de/malte279/The%20land%20before%20time%20-%20We%20need%20someone%20to%20be%20the%20bait.jpg)
I have a very different interpretation of that look.
To me it seems to be an attempt of an ingratiating look at Ducky who natuarally is not keen on being the bait. Look at Petrie, he is looking just the same way. There was a cut in the movie, so we don't know how long they needed to convince Ducky, but according to some book versions she accepted the unavoidable relatively quickly (being the only one who was able to swim (at least being any good at it) and lure the sharptooth to the deeper parts of the pond.
I don't think that Littlefoot or anyone imposed that task on her because they just didn't want to go. Neither Spike's nor Littlefoot's strength could have been spared at the rock (theirs wasn't even enough) while Petrie was least of a swimmer and also presumably very slow on his tiny feet (he rode most of the time; so did Ducky, but there are more scenese in which Ducky is walking than there are of Petrie doing so).
Back to that look; it really doesn't seem like the evil smirk we see from someone endulging in revengeful thoughts (there are good examples from Ozzy and Cera).
While I do not question the possibility of satisfaction on Littlefoot's part after Sharptooth's death I really don't think it was among the main reasons for him to kill sharptooth.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Petrie. on December 18, 2005, 05:52:46 PM
^ Malte, I had to make that picture a link....it was so large it messed the forum up!

Actually, I think Petrie looked like the the evil sort in that picture with that smug grin that he wasn't going to be the one luring Sharptooth.  ;)
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Malte279 on December 18, 2005, 06:24:51 PM
I think Petrie's face is the perfect match to Littlefoots with neither of them looking really evil (though I doubt not that Petrie probably was relieved not to be the bait).
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: WeirdRaptor on December 18, 2005, 08:36:22 PM
I think that everyone who ended up not being the bait was probably relieved.  :lol:

Well, except for Spike, who didn't seem to be grasping the situation to any degree.  -_-

Back to the point, I never thought that that wa sa devilish smirk.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: DarkHououmon on June 09, 2007, 03:00:22 AM
Reviving an old topic.

To add my thoughts in, I do believe that, in the final version of the movie, Littlefoot's main motivation of getting rid of Sharptooth was revenge.

Quote
Though I don't think that even Littlefoot is absolutely above such low emotions as revengefulness I don't think that it was his main reason for killing sharptooth.
I really think that it was mainly the threat of sharpteeth possibly finding the Great Valley. The movie as it is does not support this point of mine as Littlefoot hasn't found the Great Valley by the time they fight with sharptooth.
However, I have good reasons to believe that the original concept of the movie was different. When the movie was first made Littlefoot found the Great Valley right after the quarrel with Cera and he returned to lead the others there. In this case the 2nd theory becomes much more likely.
I own a book from 1988 which was published along with the movies and which tells the story variant of Littlefoot finding the Valley before he returned to get the others. I do not have the book at hand right now, so I cannot quote the literal text, but I'm positive that in the book they say sharptooth is about to find the entrance to the Valley when Littlefoot and the others decide to kill him.

Perhaps in the original concept of the movie and in the books, the main reason of killing Sharptooth was to prevent him from entering the Great Valley. But since, in the final version of the movie Littlefoot has not even found the valley yet, this could not possibly be the reason for killing Sharptooth.

The only other reason that seems to fit is revenge. They could not have been protecting anything because they didn't know there was anything there that needed protecting.


Quote
Even with the movie being the way it is now I still don't think Littlefoot was compelled by mere revenge. Sharptooth was too dangerous to take the risk of combating him for the mere satisfaction of "getting rid of him". If the choice had been left to Littlefoot I suppose they would have stayed as far from sharptooth as possibly possible. However, with sharptooth right on their route to the Great Valley there was hardly another choice.

I have to disagree with this because they did not know the Great Valley was there. They could not have known Sharptooth was right in the path to the Great Valley. They could have easily taken another path to stay out of the Sharptooth's way. But they didn't. They stayed and plot to kill the Sharptooth.

Once again, this points in the direction of revenge. The Sharptooth being in the way could not have been the reason, in my opinion, simply because they did not know the valley was there. The only other reason I can think of for Littlefoot to try to kill Sharptooth is, indeed, revenge.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: action9000 on June 09, 2007, 04:52:51 PM
I'm not sure that revenge is the only other possibilty.
There could be another reason for the attack on Sharptooth: Self-preservation.
I know it sounds a little far-fetched but here's my reasoning:

The Gang has encountered Sharptooth 3 times (including Cera's encounter underground) prior to the final encounter with him.  All three of these times, Sharptooth caught the gang unaware and off-guard.  During the 4th encounter, the gang had the luxury of catching Sharptooth off-guard for once (until it somewhat backfired when Sharptooth snuck up on Ducky, but in theory the Gang had him off-guard.  The gang still had the more tactical positions during the fight).

The Gang didn't know how much further away the Valley was at this point.  After being surprised while they were asleep, I can completely understand if the Gang wanted to prevent that from happening again (of course it can't be prevented as there are multiple sharpteeth in the world but from the perspective of the film, it would have helped).  When one is unaware that they will be attacked, it is very likely that a tragic outcome could result.  If the Gang could eliminate the most likely attacker while They were on the offense, while they were the ones doing the surprising, and with a cunning plan to achieve victory, odds are much greater of winning the fight than if Sharptooth spontaneously arrives on the scene and attacks.

If the Gang had days or weeks left in the journey to the Great Valley, I can certainly understand why they would use such an opportunity to finish off their mortal enemy when they had the tactical advantage, for the sake of survival later on the journey.  It is also very possible that revenge was a contributing factor as well.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: General Grievous on June 20, 2007, 12:48:05 AM
Another reason might be because kids in the audience might not have been happy if some kind of retribution wasn't delivered for all the hardships Sharptooth caused the gang.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Threehorn on June 20, 2007, 10:06:17 AM
I know this might be a big pain to speak here but I was wondering, this book could anyone type down the whole story if it not too big onto a email or something so'd I can read it as well. that if the book isn't too big. I would love to read the readable version to the movie.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: F-14 Ace on June 20, 2007, 11:07:07 AM
Yeah, me too.  I didn't even know there were any LBT books out there.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: LBTFan13 on January 01, 2008, 08:35:23 PM
I definitely agree on the danger of Sharpteeth finding the Great Valley, but as we saw in the second movie, they obviously didn't do a good job of keeping them away, even though it was accidental.

I honestly thought Littlefoot wanted to prove to himself that he could survive without the help of any adults, especially since he went through the whole movie without his mother. I mainly thought of this because after the encounter when Littlefoot sees his mom in the clouds he becomes sad and explains how he tried to do what she told him.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Chiletrek on January 02, 2008, 01:12:40 AM
Hello:
 I'd like to know too, afterall if getting the book is difficult there, then imagine it would be a pain trying to get it here.
 Sharptooth was a menace and they got rid of it, but of course that will not stop other Sharptooth from getting to the Valley, after all if many herds can get to the Valley, then why not Sharptooth can, if other herds can get to the valley there may be meat-eaters following those herds as the original Sharptooth pursuit Littlefoot and Gang. So the Sharptooth menace is never over after all.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Malte279 on January 02, 2008, 07:24:17 AM
I'm sorry, but typing of the whole book is not something that can be done without a great investment of time, something which you woefully lack during university studies. Rest assured though that I quoted the passages of relevance to the discussion about Littlefoot's motives to get rid of the Sharptooth to the letter.
The book is frequently offered at ebay so it won't be more difficult for anyone else to buy than it was for me (I don't live in the US and I am no native English speaker myself).
Quote
I honestly thought Littlefoot wanted to prove to himself that he could survive without the help of any adults, especially since he went through the whole movie without his mother. I mainly thought of this because after the encounter when Littlefoot sees his mom in the clouds he becomes sad and explains how he tried to do what she told him.
Not sure on that one. There are a few moments in which Littlefoot really seems to think remotely along the lines of being "the lone dinosaur" who can do it all by himself. But I am not sure that these moments were mainly inspired by his desire to prove anything to himself.
There is the moment in which he blocks Ducky's first attempts to make friends with him. But his behavior in that scene is clearly inspired by Cera's behavior in the preceding scene and possibly by what his mother told him about longnecks sticking to the own kind. I don't see any indication that "doing it all by himself" was a motive for Littlefoot in that scene. On the contrary, his behavior towards Ducky changed right away after she mentioned that she is all alone.
We see Littlefoot looking very disappointed and sad when the others huddle to Cera rather than to him during the night in the little valley. There was nothing about him suggesting any "I can do it by myself! who needs them anyway?" - kind of conduct.
Another scene of Littlefoot going of all by himself is after the quarrel with Cera. But he didn't really mean to be on his own. As he had to follow the way his mother had described to him he had little choice but to go on alone as the others wouldn't follow him (and he was to upset about the quarrel with Cera to make a real effort to convince them of his way).
I don't think that Littlefoot felt he had to prove anything by getting rid of the Sharptooth without the assistance of a grownup.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: lbt/cty_lover on January 02, 2008, 06:43:14 PM
I think everybody is forgetting that Littlefoot did not know that the valley was so close. It is possible that this is how he spends his spare time  :lol (disturbing though).

Revenge is actually the most likely.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Malte279 on January 02, 2008, 07:01:21 PM
But in the original concept of the movie (before they relocated and cut the respective scenes) Littlefoot was perfectly aware of the Great Valley being nearby and Sharptooth being about to enter it.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: The Chronicler on January 02, 2008, 08:19:00 PM
That's something that gets me confused about this. If we follow one way the movie goes then one reason makes more sense, but if we follow the other way the movie goes then another reason makes more sense. So which reason would be best, the one for the official scene or the one for the original scene?
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Chiletrek on January 02, 2008, 10:20:42 PM
Hello:
 It is hard to tell, but we may stick with the official scene, after all that is the one that should be considered canon since it was showed onscreen, it can be reconsidered if and when, Universal do release the missing parts somehow.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Malte279 on January 03, 2008, 06:58:24 AM
Yet even with the movie as it is I doubt revenge to be the central motive of Littlefoot's decision. While he is certainly not immune to such traits I don't see Littlefoot as a character who would willingly risk the live of others to satisfy a personal hunger for revenge. I do not deny that Littlefoot probably did feel satisfied about the death of the Sharptooth, but I would not go so far as to consider his desire for revenge the central motive. Sharptooth did pose a threat to him and the others and Sharptooth had been very persistent in the pursuit of the kids. Had Sharptooth not been on the track of Littlefoot I suppose we can take it for granted that Littlefoot would not have tried to track down Sharptooth to get his revenge. Sharptooth happened to appear in a place where the terrain was suited to trap him and Littlefoot took that chance to get rid of the permanent threat. The lucky coincidence of the suitable terrain and the need to get rid of the permanent threat seem to be more plausible central motives for Littlefoot's decision than thirst for revenge.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: LBTFan13 on January 03, 2008, 05:12:17 PM
Quote from: Malte279,Jan 2 2008 on  06:24 AM
I'm sorry, but typing of the whole book is not something that can be done without a great investment of time, something which you woefully lack during university studies. Rest assured though that I quoted the passages of relevance to the discussion about Littlefoot's motives to get rid of the Sharptooth to the letter.
The book is frequently offered at ebay so it won't be more difficult for anyone else to buy than it was for me (I don't live in the US and I am no native English speaker myself).
Quote
I honestly thought Littlefoot wanted to prove to himself that he could survive without the help of any adults, especially since he went through the whole movie without his mother. I mainly thought of this because after the encounter when Littlefoot sees his mom in the clouds he becomes sad and explains how he tried to do what she told him.
Not sure on that one. There are a few moments in which Littlefoot really seems to think remotely along the lines of being "the lone dinosaur" who can do it all by himself. But I am not sure that these moments were mainly inspired by his desire to prove anything to himself.
There is the moment in which he blocks Ducky's first attempts to make friends with him. But his behavior in that scene is clearly inspired by Cera's behavior in the preceding scene and possibly by what his mother told him about longnecks sticking to the own kind. I don't see any indication that "doing it all by himself" was a motive for Littlefoot in that scene. On the contrary, his behavior towards Ducky changed right away after she mentioned that she is all alone.
We see Littlefoot looking very disappointed and sad when the others huddle to Cera rather than to him during the night in the little valley. There was nothing about him suggesting any "I can do it by myself! who needs them anyway?" - kind of conduct.
Another scene of Littlefoot going of all by himself is after the quarrel with Cera. But he didn't really mean to be on his own. As he had to follow the way his mother had described to him he had little choice but to go on alone as the others wouldn't follow him (and he was to upset about the quarrel with Cera to make a real effort to convince them of his way).
I don't think that Littlefoot felt he had to prove anything by getting rid of the Sharptooth without the assistance of a grownup.
I understand what you are saying, but I think I said it wrong. What I meant to say was that I thought he wanted to prove to himself that he could lead the group like how his mother led him and the others originally.

If I got that wrong, about his mother leading the herd, then please don't get mad.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Malte279 on January 03, 2008, 06:28:43 PM
Oh come on, why would I be mad at you? You didn't say anything that would justify so much as a frown. Also please don't think that disagreeing with my point of view would make me angry or something. It would be a dreadfully boring discussion if everyone just agreed with everything everyone said. Sometimes I'm afraid people think of me as somewhat scary, but really I'm not.:cry

You just mentioned a point which I find very interesting as I don't think it has ever been discussed before:
Quote
What I meant to say was that I thought he wanted to prove to himself that he could lead the group like how his mother led him and the others originally.
I never paid much attention to the line in LBT which says that Littlefoot's mother and grandparents are all who are left from their herd. With all of the survivors being close relatives I never thought about Littlefoot's mother or either of Littlefoot's grandparents as the "leader" of the herd as it looked more like a family than a herd.
It would be interesting to know how large the herd was in the first place and what happened to it. The question about the herd would also be of some significance for the rather controversial discussion of the role Bron played in the time right before the start of the original movie.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: LBTFan13 on January 04, 2008, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: Malte279,Jan 3 2008 on  05:28 PM
Oh come on, why would I be mad at you? You didn't say anything that would justify so much as a frown. Also please don't think that disagreeing with my point of view would make me angry or something. It would be a dreadfully boring discussion if everyone just agreed with everything everyone said. Sometimes I'm afraid people think of me as somewhat scary, but really I'm not.:cry
 
I'm sorry if I promoted such a thing. It's just that in many past forums that I visit, whenever I say something that someone else doesn't agree with, they usually start flamming me.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Malte279 on January 05, 2008, 10:33:40 AM
Really don't worry about that! The GOF would be a dreadfully boring place if only one opinion was tolerated. I hope not being flamed is not a thing too difficult to get used to  ;)
But please do not apologize for not doing any harm (and don't even think about apologizing for an apology where there was nothing to apologize for :lol)
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Chiletrek on January 05, 2008, 06:46:58 PM
Hello:
 I was also on those places were flame wars are part of every day becasue they don't tolerate a thing, but then I met other places when you are free to give your opinion because we all are different and we all have our own way to see things. This forum belongs to the second group and that's why it is so cool :)
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Manny Cav on January 06, 2008, 09:19:11 PM
My answer to the question: eminent danger. If I saw a huge T-Rex and I thought it was heading for my home or anyone else's home with lethal intent, I would want it dead that minute, if for nothing else to save my own bacon (I would probably fall in it's line of fire too). I can't blame Littlefoot at all for wanting it dead.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Serris on January 11, 2008, 11:13:40 PM
I'm fairly sure it was self-defense.

I can't quite see Littlefoot risking Ducky's death for satisfaction.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Kor on January 12, 2008, 04:35:51 AM
Could be a mix of things, but mainly perhaps self defense indeed.  He had been on their steps the whole time.  They could not shake him for long.  He also, likely, didn't want to lead the sharptooth to the great valley, perhaps not thinking that he could know where the great valley already was but was prevented from entering.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Chiletrek on January 12, 2008, 04:19:26 PM
Hello:
 To have a Sharptooth following your steps and letting you guide him to the Great Valley is too much of a risk, we all know there are many Sharptooths, but this one represented a great and the most immediate danger not only to them, but for the Valley itself. Littlefoot was ok, and I don't think he could think of revenge, at that time ha also had other things in mind too I bet.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on January 29, 2008, 11:29:37 PM
Don't forget that all 5 of them were hungry, and had been hiking for days. Since we are all sitting, well-fed and watered (and hopefully not in any immediate danger) in front of our computers, we have the luxury of unlimited foresight and a clear head. When one is in a dangerous situation, one tends to lose the ability to think absolutely clearly. I believe the desicion was much more on-the-spot than we imagine.

When I try to put myself in Littlefoot's case, I think of when I was 15, and got lost in a forest outside my old house. I had dozed off in a large tree, and woke up to find it about twilight. Remembering that dad said never to panic, I calmly slid out of the tree and thought about where to go. I thought: "Due to the Coriolis Effect, my body is tuned to walk counter-clockwise, since I live in the Northern Hemisphere. The sun is setting to my left, and in the morning I can see it from my bedroom window, which faces east. Therefore, east (and home) is to my right, and I should follow any paths that lead clockwise from my current position, since I want to retrace my path."

While it sounds like I had thought this through really well, in reality, I was cold, hungry and wanted to get home. I wasn't exactly sure what I was doing, and the logic was proably reall flawed, but I thought, "Screw it, I gotta do something." Also, I didn't have the luxury of double-checking my logic, and making sure I knew I was right: daylight was almost gone, and I needed to use it while I had it.

Also, to follow my unblazed clockwise direction, I strayed off the path and did some risky things I certainly wouldn't have tried during the day, in a safer stuation. However, once I had made my original desicion, I didn't think enough to even consider changing course. Evey move I made was calculated to shave as much time off of my journey as possible, regardless of the consquences if I misstep.

I wound up exiting the forest and finding myself downtown, which was petty far away from my house.

Anyway, the point is, Littlefoot and co. couldn't afford to think clearly, and weigh the possible solutions anymore than I could've 5 years ago. They needed to make a desicion and stick with it. Littlefoot conjured in his head a possibillity of a way to eliminate Sharptooth, and once it was fully formed, he implemented it. If the others had had any better ideas, they would've said them, but they obviously didn't. And then they fell into place behind him.

Also, if anyone says that Littlefoot didn't look tired or exhausted, trust me he probably was. One of the marks of a good leader is the ability to hide one's own exhaustion, and put on a brave face for the others in your party. since Littlefoot had shown in the past that he was going and willing to be their leader, he knew he'd have to act the part completely, to keep the others going.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Bruton the Iguanodon on December 28, 2011, 10:35:10 PM
Quote
2: If he didn't kill him, the Valley would've been in danger. With how often the gang ran into Sharptooth through out the movie, it did seem that he was following them. If he didn't kill him when he did, chances are that he would've followed them to the Valley. And we all know how bad of a thing that would've been.


But isn't the valley a place safe from all sharpteeth?
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: DarkHououmon on December 28, 2011, 10:46:45 PM
Quote from: Bruton the Iguanodon,Dec 28 2011 on  09:35 PM
But isn't the valley a place safe from all sharpteeth?
This was not the intent of the first movie. If you watch the first movie, you'll find that never once do they say it's a haven from sharpteeth; it's purpose was a place where they could find food. In the novel, Sharptooth was trying to find a way into the valley, and he may have very well found one if Littlefoot and the others hadn't intervened. If longnecks could get in, there's no reason Sharptooth could not have.

The sequels really screwed things up, in my opinion, by having the valley be inaccessible to sharpteeth. When you think about it, it really makes no sense. The TV show did try to fix this plot hole, but even then it's not completely satisfactory.

I believe Malte (or someone else here) came up with a better idea; that it's not that sharpteeth can't get into the valley; it's that they choose not to. The herbivores of the valley do tend to work together (at least some of them) to fight off predators, and that makes them much harder to kill. So in a sense, the Great Valley is not a paradise for sharpteeth to hunt in. It's more like a nightmare where the "food fights back", so they willingly avoid it.

One evidence for this is in the second movie, where Chomper's parents willingly leave the valley. They could have stayed and have a hunting spot ripe with prey, but they chose to leave on their own. So it was obvious they had no intent on being in the valley for long. If their child didn't go missing, they might not have ever entered the Great Valley to begin with.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Bruton the Iguanodon on December 28, 2011, 11:37:21 PM
Hmm...very interesting idea.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Kor on December 29, 2011, 12:10:40 AM
I mentioned, and maybe others did too, that maybe the residents may have patrols to go around the 1 or more openings looking for any sharpteeth so they can sound the alarm to gather together some adults to fight them off so they leave.
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Bruton the Iguanodon on December 29, 2011, 02:53:35 AM
Quote
There was a cut in the movie, so we don't know how long they needed to convince Ducky, but according to some book versions she accepted the unavoidable relatively quickly (being the only one who was able to swim (at least being any good at it) and lure the sharptooth to the deeper parts of the pond.


I actually liked how they did this cut, how it shows Ducky not agreeing but the in the next scene she does it. And all of the gang can swim, but like you said only Ducky is good at it. Did you know she was originally gona be a swimmer who can't swim, instead of Petrie being a flyer who can't fly?
Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: LittlefootAndAliTogether on March 23, 2015, 03:40:37 PM
Why the heck would they fear that anyway?   I mean, Red Claw, Screech, and Thud were beaten back by the grownups.  So were both of Chomper's parents.  I think the Combined Herd coulda wiped him out if he just went in alone.  

Think about it, how can Sharptooth beat all of those grownups alone?  He won against Mama Longneck, but it wasn't an easy fight.  I imagine encountering the enraged parents of Littlefoot's mother would, in itself, be the end of Sharptooth if a fight broke out between them.  

Also, with Topps plus the others, Sharptooth doesn't have a prayer!

Also, just for kicks, say Sharptooth did have the capability to take out the whole entire Combined Herd by himself, what good would it do him?  He might be able to eat some of them but the rest would just rot and the place would smell awful from all the dead and he'd have to leave anyway.  

Title: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: LittlefootAndAliTogether on March 23, 2015, 03:46:27 PM
I don't see how any Shaprtooth, minus, well, Chomper, could ever beat the Great Valley without inside help.   (Chomper is the only one who knows the layout of the Great Valley and would know all the entrances and which were least guarded, etc.)  

If a Sharptooth were to pose an actual danger, it would have to be with someone who was a Leaf Eater helping him/her.  Perhaps the Leaf Eater would be friendly to Sharptooth, knowing that for every non-him/her Flattooth eaten, that means less competition for leaves, sweet bubbles, etc, out there, and might be greedy enough to do that, coveting all the food of the Great Valley for himself/herself.  

After all, Sharpteeth could get in unspotted as it took a while for the grownups to realize that Chomper's parents were in the Valley.  The kids could have been eaten before the adults got there, had not the kids been strong enough or lucky enough not to get eaten.  

Title: Re: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: LittlefootOnASkateboard on September 12, 2021, 02:27:51 AM
I'm really glad I found this old thread. Some really deep insightful analyses being shared here. It's been a joy to read them all. The conversation of whether Littlefoot did kill Sharp Tooth for revenge or not reframes his entire character. If his sole motivation for engaging the t-rex was to avenge his mother then the way he did it (endangering his friends and Ducky especially) would be selfish. However, I think it's unlikely that Littlefoot did it without being at least, in part, subconsciously motivated by the desire for revenge. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 I had to rewatch the scene just now just to really see what might be going through the little apatosaurus's head.


So it seems like Littlefoot's motivation could be the safety of the group. That he realizes that they'll only truly be safe once Sharp Tooth is dealt with once and for all. And considering how this one t-rex has been tracking them since the "earth shake", it's not entirely unreasonable. But that's not how it comes across in the context of the film at all. Quite the opposite, Littlefoot seems quite excited to get back at Sharp Teeth and despite the danger it puts them in. It's not like he's corned, with no choice but to lure the beast that's been stalking them into a trap. Sharp Tooth is even heading away from the kids at this point.

So even though he may not realize it himself, what drives him is probably a desire to kill the creature that's been stalking them and that took from him the most important other person in his life - his mother.

So does that make Littlefoot evil? Short answer: no. It makes him a kid. He's a smart, sensitive and genuinely caring kid. That he cares about his friends has been demonstrated many times.

But like a kid, his risk assessment is underdeveloped. And kids too have a deeply ingrained sense of revenge. Kids too experience anger and malice. In fact, these tendencies usually develop in children even fore things like empathy.

So we have here a traumatized, starved and also incredibly resourceful and intelligent kid. Who knows how much suppressed anger and frustration he's dealing with? Who knows when he last ate? And now he's finally given a chance to get back at Sharp Tooth. He's smart, so he figures out a plan to do it. And he executes it. He doesn't consider the danger it'd be putting everyone in, not because they're not important to him, but because it doesn't occur to him. It's nothing but pure impulsive opportunism on his part. Let's not forget that Littlefoot risked his life to save Ducky mare moments ago. There should be no question that he cares about her.

It's also worth noting that Littlefoot is never seen endangering his friends live in such way again. In fact, in the sequels he's quite protective of his friends. Sometimes more so than what is rational. He'll leave them behind when there is something he needs to do outside the safety of the Valley, not realizing that they're stronger together.

I wonder if seeing Ducky so close to being comped up by the angry rex, and Petrie almost drowning, filled him with regret at that moment. Maybe he's compensating for that, and this could explain why he's much more protective and considerate in the sequels?

Anyway, so basically yes, I believe revenge was a subconsciously motivating factor, and that he acted recklessly but didn't understand the risks either. I don't think it would be fair to judge Littlefoot based on his actions here. I think, in context, they're fully understandable.

But that doesn't change the fact that he did risk his friends, especially Ducky. And that's probably something that's gonna stay with him and shape his personality and his actions going forward.

Quote from: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on January 29, 2008, 11:29:37 PM
Quote from: aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato) on January 29, 2008, 11:29:37 PM
Don't forget that all 5 of them were hungry, and had been hiking for days. Since we are all sitting, well-fed and watered (and hopefully not in any immediate danger) in front of our computers, we have the luxury of unlimited foresight and a clear head. When one is in a dangerous situation, one tends to lose the ability to think absolutely clearly. I believe the desicion was much more on-the-spot than we imagine.

When I try to put myself in Littlefoot's case, I think of when I was 15, and got lost in a forest outside my old house. I had dozed off in a large tree, and woke up to find it about twilight. Remembering that dad said never to panic, I calmly slid out of the tree and thought about where to go. I thought: "Due to the Coriolis Effect, my body is tuned to walk counter-clockwise, since I live in the Northern Hemisphere. The sun is setting to my left, and in the morning I can see it from my bedroom window, which faces east. Therefore, east (and home) is to my right, and I should follow any paths that lead clockwise from my current position, since I want to retrace my path."

While it sounds like I had thought this through really well, in reality, I was cold, hungry and wanted to get home. I wasn't exactly sure what I was doing, and the logic was proably reall flawed, but I thought, "Screw it, I gotta do something." Also, I didn't have the luxury of double-checking my logic, and making sure I knew I was right: daylight was almost gone, and I needed to use it while I had it.

Also, to follow my unblazed clockwise direction, I strayed off the path and did some risky things I certainly wouldn't have tried during the day, in a safer stuation. However, once I had made my original desicion, I didn't think enough to even consider changing course. Evey move I made was calculated to shave as much time off of my journey as possible, regardless of the consquences if I misstep.

I wound up exiting the forest and finding myself downtown, which was petty far away from my house.

Anyway, the point is, Littlefoot and co. couldn't afford to think clearly, and weigh the possible solutions anymore than I could've 5 years ago. They needed to make a desicion and stick with it. Littlefoot conjured in his head a possibillity of a way to eliminate Sharptooth, and once it was fully formed, he implemented it. If the others had had any better ideas, they would've said them, but they obviously didn't. And then they fell into place behind him.

Also, if anyone says that Littlefoot didn't look tired or exhausted, trust me he probably was. One of the marks of a good leader is the ability to hide one's own exhaustion, and put on a brave face for the others in your party. since Littlefoot had shown in the past that he was going and willing to be their leader, he knew he'd have to act the part completely, to keep the others going.

Precisely! This is perspective here is so important. When you consider Littlefoot's actions, you have to also consider his mental state, his exhaustion, the trauma he's been through.

Yet even with the movie as it is I doubt revenge to be the central motive of Littlefoot's decision. While he is certainly not immune to such traits I don't see Littlefoot as a character who would willingly risk the live of others to satisfy a personal hunger for revenge. I do not deny that Littlefoot probably did feel satisfied about the death of the Sharptooth, but I would not go so far as to consider his desire for revenge the central motive. Sharptooth did pose a threat to him and the others and Sharptooth had been very persistent in the pursuit of the kids. Had Sharptooth not been on the track of Littlefoot I suppose we can take it for granted that Littlefoot would not have tried to track down Sharptooth to get his revenge. Sharptooth happened to appear in a place where the terrain was suited to trap him and Littlefoot took that chance to get rid of the permanent threat. The lucky coincidence of the suitable terrain and the need to get rid of the permanent threat seem to be more plausible central motives for Littlefoot's decision than thirst for revenge.

This is also a very important point that I considered in my response. We shouldn't forge that Sharp Tooth did pose a continues threat to the kids throughout the movie and Littlefoot would have been aware of this. I have no doubt that this is a big reason why he did what he did. Still, I read it less as a decision made out of fear for his own life at that moment or in the future, and more like Littlefoot taking the chance to get back at the t-rex for everything he had done. And on that list would be all the times he attacked them AND what he did to his mother.

Littlefoot wanted to be rid of him once and for all. Like he said himself.

Lastly. I just had to...
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/352898332965732352/886498277435006996/fdsafws.png)

Credit to Malte279 btw for that idea. 


Littlefoot is just not the revengeful nature who would stand there proclaiming something like: "Never shall I set a foot (however little they may be ;)) in the Great Valley before I haveth not spilled my foe's blood and satisfied my thirst for revenge!" Nor do I believe that he would think along these lines (lest in a poor imitation of middle English ;)



Title: Re: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Sneak on September 13, 2021, 09:29:49 AM
I didn't know such thread existed here on forum. :O

Well, I told my opinion on this topic couple times before in different threads.

Here's what I think.

Littlefoot's motivation differs in different versions of the film (theatrical release and early script version. Different versions of finding the valley): he decided to get rid of Sharptooth to save little group from being stalked by him, or to protect Great Valley from him. At least, this is what movie / script lines try to tell us.
But, at the same time, I personally think that Littlefoot seeked for revenge in his mind. Maybe, just maybe, it was the MAIN reason, his primary desire, and he tried to hide it from others, and even from himself, with making up and explaining other important and valid reasons why they should get rid of Sharptooth.

Littlefoot is a very good hearted boy, yes. Of course we expect to see only good actions and pure thoughts from him. But... he's still a 5-years old kid. With still not fully formed psyche and worldview. Who recently got a serious child trauma.

Let's be honest - remember your early childhood. Remember moments when someone hurted you very badly. It can be serious like somebody hit, humiliated or insulted you, or something silly or moments when you were guilty but you still felt like it was unfair and hurtful. Now tell me - was there cases when your first thought was not to try to reason with person who hurted you, to make a piece with him, to apology, or to ignore  and forget him, BUT make a revenge, harmful as possible?...

That's what I prefer to think. No matter what version of movie, behind Littlefoot's pure motives there WAS a revenge. And he used his friends and put them at grave danger when he made them be involved into it, performing a plan to get rid from person who was responsible for great loss in his life.

I prefer to think that in critical moment, right before Cera appeared, when friends couldn't do anything to stop Sharptooth, standing on the cliff, when death was closer than ever, Littlefoot could realize that he put his friends, his huge responsibility (it was his main goal - to lead them to the Great Valley, since the moment when he met Ducky), at grave danger, and he's the one to be blamed. Well, actually, even if there wasn't revenge motive, I think that's what Littlefoot thought at that moment.

Of course such vengeful motives doesn't make Littlefot evil, in my opinion. But it was interesting to see Littlefoot from this side, with dark thoughts visiting him. Thoughts that COULD radically change his personality, form his worldview and and life position, and make him different person in the worst circumstances.

And I think that one of the best things that sequels gave us is introducing Chomper and his parents. There, we could see that Littlefoot didn't become some kind of avenger against all sharpteeth in the world. There, after some new adventures, we could see Littlefoot's formed view of sharpteeth. For him, sharpteeth are regular dinosaurs: they grow up from innocent kids, they have the same feelings, they make families and have their own lives.

After all, like Rooter said: "lt is nobody's fault. The great circle of life has begun, but, you see, not all of us arrive together at the end."
It wasn't Sharptooth's fault.

After all, Sharptooth himself hadn't any evil intentions when he attacked Littlefoot and his mother. (at least in theatrical version of the film, which I consider as canon, unlike book version). He just acted natural at that moment.

(Seeds of evil could appear in Sharptooth's revenge subplot that was hidden behind main plot - stalking gang for food. In my opinion, this motive also took the place in the story, and it's pretty interesting to see how it reflects Littlefoot's revenge against Sharptooth himself. But that's different topic for discussion.)

Lastly. I just had to...
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/352898332965732352/886498277435006996/fdsafws.png)

Good one!  :littlefootmad
Title: Re: Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth
Post by: Gentle Sharptooth on September 24, 2021, 05:06:11 PM
Gollum to Littlefoot:
Murderer!

Littlefoot: At last I will reveal myself to Sharptooth, at last I will have revenge!