The Gang of Five
Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => The Fridge => Topic started by: Malte279 on November 02, 2004, 09:35:53 AM
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Hi!
It's just a few more hours (or considering the legal epilogue this election is likely to have), before we know who will be president of the United States for the next four years. I don't that that there has ever been as much interest in a US presidential election, within the States as well as abroad(with the possible election of 1860 when Lincoln was elected).
I have to admit that I'm really scared of the possibility that George W. Bush may continue to act the way he did during during his first term of office. No doubt this election, no matter how it will turn out, will have a really tremendous impact on world's history in the years to come. And world's history in the years to come does include the turn of our lifes!
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I hope Bush is kicked out the white house since he came along there been nothing but anger felt all over the world to the US because of Bush's actions to attack thrid world countries.
-Threehorn
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A few hours? <_< More like a day or two likely because there a lot of provisional ballots being sent in and absentee ballots as well.
I really want Kerry to kick Bush in the tush too. :lol I'm not in favor with his Iraq policy or even some of his domestic policies either. :angry:
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I like that creap out of office too. :p
-Threehorn
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I've just posted a rather passionate message at the network54 forum as a response to a message in which it was sayd that Bush is a good president and that the writer has Bush in office rather than Kerry, because the later supports (tolerates would be a more fitting term for all I know of Kerry) gay marriage. I'm posting this message here too, as I think it may trigger an interesting discussion in which some may be of a different oppinion than I am. Note that the message was written in a somewhat aggressive temper:
You say Iraq was freed.
No question at all Saddam Hussein was a horrible dictator! A horrible dictator as I might point out who rose to power with great support from America and other western countries.
But let's be honest how many horrible dictators are still out there, still backed by our governments as they provide us with cheap rescources?
And how liberated is Iraq anyway with daily terror from both sides?
But liberating Iraqi people was not the "reason" for the war anyway. It was the weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be an outright lie! Not a fib like politicians everywhere tell every day, but a lie that costed more than 1000 US soldiers and many more thousand Iraqis their lifes!
Then lets move on to some other things about G. W. Bushs politics. Does it sound alright for a democratic government to imprison people for an indeterminate time? Without charges? Without a lawyer? And does it sound alright that people are being tortured? Why do you think is it that the so called "enemy combatants" are mainly imprisoned in countries such as Cuba and Jordan where they won't catch that much public interest and where it is more difficult for reporters to report about treatment of prisoners that is not in accordance with the Geneva accords or the declaration of human rights?
Now there is one thing I want to make sure you understand. I am not especially symphatetic about terrorists, but how many of these people locked up without charge are terrorists? Quite a few of them were not even captured by US troops but (in case of Afghanistan) by militias who got bounties for captured "terrorists". So why shouldn't they just declare the closest available taxi driver to be a terrorist and hand him over?
But we don't even need to look only at the war on terrorism in order to see the questionable actions of Bush's policy. What about the record budged deficit Bush brought in after Clinton had actually managed to get into the black numbers? Are you defining Clinton over his sex scandal?
Why is it that about 200 FBI agents were busy to investigate about president Clinton's sexual life while they ought to have been answering calls from Texan flight trainers who were worried about some strange guys who wanted to learn how to fly a plane, but not about how to take off or land? Did Clinton's sex affair (inappropriate and ruthless as it definitely was) or the lies he spread about it kill anybody? No!
Did Bush's lies kill anybody? You bet they did!
But back to other policies of Bush. We have the revoking of the Kyoto Protocol Clinton had signed. Doing a little favor to the CEOs who sponsored his election campaign, I suppose, but hey who cares? I don't suppose any of them will live to see the worst effects of global warming, while we may!
Another thing, you asked whether I believe that my countrie is going to be bombed? Well, not really. But when Bush made sure that American soldiers could not be tried in front of the international court in the Haag (Netherlands) for crimes of war, there was also a legislature passed allowing the use of "military force" if still it was attempted to try Americans before that international court. Why on earth does Bush want this kind of fool's license for US soldiers? Perhaps a look at Abu Ghraib may tell us why.
All this combined I think is quite something that might work as a counter argument against the "horrors" of giving gay and lesbian people equal rights to "straight" people.
I for my part do not think that in a modern, enlighted society the government has any right to interfere into what grownup people do in their bedrooms, so long it happens consently! Unlike the stuff I listed above it does not kill anyone if two people of the same gender love each other!
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I voted for Bush. I happen agree withsome of his policies, which is more than I can say for Kerry.
(Awaits flames, which will come, just because I had a different opinion.)
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Kerry all the way! I have a lot of critical things I can say about Bush....especially No Child Left Behind. ;)
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Yes, I will admit that Bush has made his mistakes in office, no doubt about it.
Just remember before you trust Kerry: First, there's what Kerry says, then there's what Kerry does.
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It's 11pm and I still am shouting go Kerry!!!!!! :D
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What time zone do you live in? My clock reads 10:21 PM.
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I guess it was a good thing I took a shower BEFORE watching the news this morning. I might have tried to drown myself :(
Well, I'm not that far I suppose, but I'm really very worried about the turn things are going to take in the four years to come. :unsure:
There are more countries on Mr. Bush's list of the axis of evil, and I truly hope that he learned at least as much from what is going on in Iraq right now, as not to start just some more wars. Yes, I am terrified of what may happen :o , but it is no good to stick the head in the sand like an ostrich, or to drown oneself in the shower. <_<
What will come, will come no matter if it's welcome.
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Dead even tie...it's coming down to Ohio this year.
Bush - 254
Kerry - 252
Ohio has 20 electoral votes, whoever wins Ohio will be in the White House..
*chants*
Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry Kerry.......
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No!!!! Kerry conceided to Bush unofficially. :angry: :angry:
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They were never that close.
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They were while the counting in Ohio was not finished. Yet it became obvious rather quickly that Bush had the majority there.
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Okay. <_<
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With the popular vote in Bush's hands I don't think Kerry would've had much of a chance as it got later in the morning. What are you going to do? Can't change it, Bush is our president for the next four years for better for worse. :unsure:
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As I already wrote I don't think it will help to continue crying for the next four years. The most optimistic people hope that in his second term of office Bush may calm down a little and try to get things sorted out in Iraq and Afghanistan rather than going on with his list which may contain Iran, North Korea and maybe Syria.
People around here (in Germany) try to take comfort in the fact that Bush "accepted" that Germany is not going to send any troops to Iraq, while Kerry may have demanded this.
It's really a dilema. On the one hand I don't really believe that the population of Iraq (and I'm not talking of terrorists but of people) have enough faith and trust in US soldiers so they could really be of much use if it comes to appeasing Iraq.
On the other hand I really don't see why countries like France and Germany who strictly spoke up against the invasion of Iraq (and were named the "Axis of Weasels" or "Old Europe" because of that) should send troops there, while their troops are already engaged in Afghanistan. But as I wouldn't go to Iraq for anything on earth I don't suppose I could ever support sending other people from Germany there.
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I don't blame yu for not wanting Germans to be sent over there. Its dangerous country.
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Well Malte a lot of the right-wing wackoes have resigned from the cabinet. Bush has been given a second chance. I was very down about it, I voted for Kerry, and Kerry won Wisconsin by 11000 votes. But We'll have to see what happens in a second bush term. They just raised the debt limit by $800 billion, the third such raise since Bush took office. The Debt limit is now $8.2 trillion. But I know a way we can pay it off. Call in all of the debt we are owed from World Wars 1 and 2, that will wipe it all out(once you include interest). However, England, France, and Germany would go broke before it could be paid off, so that isn't an option
Nick
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Also America's economy would suffer even more from loosing all these markets (if all the countries went bankrupt) than it suffers from the budged deficit right now. The closing of foreign investor's businesses in America would also be a serious blow.
Anyway, I'm not exactly sure which right-wing wackoes resigned. Who are they? The change of cabinett that was noted over here in the press was the replacement of (comperatively moderate) Colin Powell through (hardliner) Condoleeza Rice. It was interpreted as a signal that Mr. Bush is going to continue his "policy" from the last years.
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Rice is not a hardliner, though she is something of a 'yesman". Ashcroft(the Attorney General) was the first to resign.
Nick