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My 2nd US Civil War Scenario

Chomper98

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This is something I created based on what is going on now. I also stated the reason is an economic disaster causes widespread unemployment, and the Union collapses into many small, disorganized states. California, Texas, New York, who have a significant population and the ability to fight a war of attrition, alongside Illinois, because of Chicago and Springfield, Colorado, due to Denver, Florida, Miami and Tallahasse, Washington state, due to Seattle, and Virginia become the "great powers" of this country, and begin unifying it. Also, this is just for fun, so I know there probably are alot of errors.
 
This begins in 2014

The union collapses and states marshal volunteer armies, while regulars join with their respective states. California, Texas and New York immediatley begin taking over states, with little resistance, followed by Colorado, Illinois, Florida and Virginia. Unfortunatley, Colorado and Texas troops clash in New Mexico and the two begin a war.

In the north west, California attacks Washington occupied northern Oregon, while Virgina is attacked by Florida. New York declares war on Illinois, and many, no related wars occur.

2014 and 2015 see a series of bloody wars that lost for two years before the great war begins. By 2016, Colorado's and Washington's war efforts are near collapse and Washington surrenders to California. Colorado, hoping to save itself after Denver falls, asks California for a union.

This results in the two uniting and pushing the Texans back, while in the Mid-west, Illinois is defeated by New York when Chicago falls and lake michigan is taken. The Californians capture the Pacific fleet and use it to attack Texas, via the Panama canal, and it is renamed the Californian Navy.

New York attacks Virginia, who has conquered the upper south, and a string of fierce battles erupt, leaving Virginia, Ohio, and Maryland devastated. The Californian Navy attacks southern Texas ports and a blockade begins.

New York strikes a deal with California and Colorado and the three unite under the United American Republic, and Florida forms a de-facto alliance with the Republic and keeps Virginia's troops occupied.

By this time the union of California, Colorado, New York, fight against the alliance between Virginia and Texas, and by 2017, Virginia is overrun, however Texas responds by drafting over a million men to clash with the Republic's 1.5 million man army.

Allied forces take most of northern Texas, before a Texan counter offensive ends it. From 2018-2020, over 700,000 American men are killed and draft laws are introduced in the Republic, leading the alliance to nearly break up.

By 2019, nearly 3,000,000 men now serve in the two armies, and slaughter is common. Both sides fight as the war rages on. Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Colorado are torn by war and the great armies that clash against eachother often fight in bloody stalemate.

In Europe, Britain and France decide the war has gone on long enough, and send troops to break the deadlock on the side of the Republic. The Texas respond by commandeering firing a nuclear missile at London, which shatters the peace. The world decides that Texas has to be defeated and England responds with a nuclear assault, leaving the country in ruins.

This is december 2020, christmas is not celebrated in war torn North America, which has mired in blood shed for more then 6 years, and the Texans, losing resolve, revolt against their state government, and a 2nd civil war breaks out in texas.

Texan loyalists, who support the government, against the pacifists, who want peace, fight. 10 million troops from Britain, France, Poland, Russia, and China land in Texas and secure the country.

By march, 2021, the war ends, just 3 weeks after the 7th anniversary of the war. 6 Million American military men are dead and 30 million civilian casualties are found, with 36 total deaths, the bloodiest war since World War II. Alternatively called World War III, because all the great powers have been involved. 26 million men have been mobilized, of which 10 million have been killed and 18 million have been injured.

The slaughter of The Second American Civil War, or World War III, has left the new United Republic of America broken, scarred, and depressed. America falls from its place as a superpower, and begins a long and unsure path to recovery, never again will there be the United States of America, in its place, a financially strangled, with an army of just 200,000 kept in place. The world sends food, resources, and supplies to the crippled America, and China gets rich off American need for resources, a new age has begun, the end of an era.


Malte279

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Why are they fighting? Which events lead up to the outbreak of such a war? What are the motives and war aims of the individual factions? Which role do the other powers in the world take and why, what are their motivations? All of these are important questions if a what if scenario is to be more than a phantasy about ruins and people killing each other.


Mumbling

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I'll move this to the history section real quick :)


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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Quote from: Chomper98,Feb 22 2013 on  12:36 AM
This begins in 2014

The union collapses and--
I'm sorry, right there, you missed the important part: why? What would possibly inspire the states to declare open war on each other? There is no reason to do this. Civil war wrecks the economy of the state in question, and the only tangible benefit a state could win is land, but in this modern world of outsourcing labor and importing natural resources, the landmasses of individual states doesn't matter.

Not to mention the states don't have standing armies; the American military is federal, so none of the states would have anyone to do their fighting for them. Factor in the fact that modern combat technology allows the nuclear demolishing of areas much larger than several US states instantly, and this whole idea is impossible.


f-22 "raptor" ace

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Quote from: Chomper98,Feb 22 2013 on  12:36 AM
The Texas respond by commandeering firing a nuclear missile at London, which shatters the peace. The world decides that Texas has to be defeated and England responds with a nuclear assault, leaving the country in ruins.
 
Let me stop you right there. If that did happen everyone else who had nukes would most likely fire theirs as well. ever hear of MAD?


jansenov

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Not necessarily. The U.S. military believes in MAD and the "one flies, all fly" principle. The Soviets certainly didn't believe such things. They believed that nuclear war is guided by the same principles as regular war,  that is, unlike Americans, they believed a nuclear war could be limited (or its effects would be limited) and that it could be won. And jugding by Russia's insistence on having a large and modern nuclear arsenal, this mindset still stands.

Notice that both doctrines are more grounded in belief and historical experience (the American (I mean the top brass)view of war as a kind of a balance sheet of costs and gains, and the Russian view of war as a highly uncertain struggle for survival), than scientific fact.

Even with all the simulations on supercomputers, there is a lot of uncertainity about the effects of nuclear war (from merely the incomplete destruction of major cities to a world covered in darkness), and there's complete uncertainity in how human beings would react. I don't think it is realistic to expect any rigid adherence to doctrine in such a situation. We still remember perhaps the most significant improvisation in history, that of Stanislav Petrov, where by protocol he should have attacked the USA. But he breached it, waiting for the "U.S. missiles" to destroy Moscow.

The only way, for now, to know how a nuclear war would look like, is to fight one.


f-22 "raptor" ace

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Quote from: jansenov,Feb 22 2013 on  08:59 PM
Not necessarily. The U.S. military believes in MAD and the "one flies, all fly" principle. The Soviets certainly didn't believe such things. They believed that nuclear war is guided by the same principles as regular war,  that is, unlike Americans, they believed a nuclear war could be limited (or its effects would be limited) and that it could be won. And jugding by Russia's insistence on having a large and modern nuclear arsenal, this mindset still stands.

Notice that both doctrines are more grounded in belief and historical experience (the American (I mean the top brass)view of war as a kind of a balance sheet of costs and gains, and the Russian view of war as a highly uncertain struggle for survival), than scientific fact.

Even with all the simulations on supercomputers, there is a lot of uncertainity about the effects of nuclear war (from merely the incomplete destruction of major cities to a world covered in darkness), and there's complete uncertainity in how human beings would react. I don't think it is realistic to expect any rigid adherence to doctrine in such a situation. We still remember perhaps the most significant improvisation in history, that of Stanislav Petrov, where by protocol he should have attacked the USA. But he breached it, waiting for the "U.S. missiles" to destroy Moscow.

The only way, for now, to know how a nuclear war would look like, is to fight one.
true, but it's britain who is on the receiving end in this scenario. I'm not sure on how they would react to it though.


jansenov

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I think Britain and France adhere to U.S doctrine, so Texas and the UK should fire everything they've got.


Chomper98

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I have looked at your questions, and I would like to say this, the reason such a war did break out was because the states were actually fighting over the territory, not trying to secede as in the first, its mainly because something happened like in the USSR, and now several states are trying to reunite it, except with the southern states wanting to stay to ressurect the CSA, and California and New York trying to reunify them with a liberal attitude while Texas is trying to reunify the states with a conservative attitude. The war however isn't quick as the sides know eachother, and the military has adhered mostly to the their home states, so it becomes a very bloody stalemate. This is also simply something I came up with that was just for fun. I know this idea is impossible, but I just did it to show a very, very scary idea of another civil war in America.


LittlefootAndAliTogether

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I honestly think more likely, the Conservative States will finally get fed up with the federal government and break off together and there will be war between the Progressive/Big Business Big Government and the Progressive States vs. the Conservative States.  And I can see it happening.  In fact, I think it's inevitable, unless something happens to change course.  

About 60 million Americans die in this war (about the same total as were aborted) and the Progressives are banned from further service in the government via an extension of the 14th Amendment ban on traitors serving in office.



Nick22

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in that case L7AT, you will have the same states breaking away that broke away in the first civil War , but unlike last time, a few dozen bunker busters dropped on the rebel states  capitals would be enough to force the rebels to yield in a matter of weeks . your scenario of the South breaking away would result in the North winning again, and executing the leaders of the southern states for treason. those states will not be let back fully into  the Union for decades afterwards, and second Reconstruction, to stomp out the racism and bigotry in the conservative states would become necessary. Or have not forgotten the South lost the Civil War. States do not have rights, they are inferior to the federal government, and the Supreme  Court ruled after the Civil War that what the South had done was illegal and treasonous.
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LittlefootAndAliTogether

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As far as I'm concerned, the federal government is committing treason right now.  We HAD rights, via the 10th Amendment, till the federal tyrants took them away.  I once believed the lies they taught in school.  Thankfully, Mark Levin and Rush Limbuagh helped me see the light.  



Nick22

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the 10th amendment delineates POWERS L&AT , not rights. the states have limits on what they can do, just like the feds,  and the Supremacy Clause makes it clear  the states cannot nullify federal laws.. nullification was an argument in the South starting in the 1820s and going until the Civil War. Mark Levin and Rush Limbaugh are both hatemongers, the next time they say something good about a liberal or a democrat will be the very first. You should really get your info from other sources than them. Pretty much ANY other source, would be better.
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Pterano

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To say nothing of the fact that Rush Limbaugh is a college dropout (who flunked everything) and a  drug addict. He's clearly a paragon of virtue of reason...

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