Wow! LBT 10 was like that?

[pokeplayer984]

-_-

Okay, maybe we should start over!

Let me just ask you one little question before we begin.

Do you know what this phrase means?:

"Any man can be a father, but it takes someone special to be a Dad."

[Malte279]

The quote comes from Australian photographer, clothing-designer, and businesswoman Anne Geddes. In this context I understand "father" to refer to merely being the genitor of somebody while Dad in this case refers to the emotional element that ought to be in a father son relationship even if it exists between a kid and a man who is not the kids genitor.

[pokeplayer984]

Okay, now let's start over and work with the points you made one at a time, and not stop until we come to a comprimise with it.

1. To explain all the discrepancies of Bron's story, we need to remember the original movie. The story he is telling must have begun shortly before the beginning of the original land before time movie.
Yet where were Bron and Littlefoot's mother (whom they didn't bother to give so much as the same color she had in the original movie) in a lush, green, Great Valley like landscape. The landscape they showed was just a perfect nesting place for Bron and his wife. There was no point for him to leave his pregnant wife to look for a better place. They had a really good place already!

One thing we know though was that it was most likely not safe like The Great Valley is.  Despite it's lush, green landscape, it was probably attacked quite often by sharpteeth for all we know.  It's a common fact that Bron and Littlefoot's mother would know something like this.  Wanting a safe place to raise a family is probably more than a good enough reason to leave.

[Malte279]

Wanting a safe place to raise a family is probably more than a good enough reason to leave.

And therefore he should leave his pregnant wife alone in a region where a serious thread from sharpteeth is to be expected?
Nope, that doesn't sum up for me. If indeed there was a thread of sharpteeth that would be just another point for Bron NOT to leave his wife alone!
Also it is very unlikely that there is an abundance of places as sheltered and protected as the Great Valley (otherwise what would remain that is special about the Great Valley? Even with the end of the myth of it being the last green place the sequels still repeatedly point out the protection it offers as something special).

[pokeplayer984]

And therefore he should leave his pregnant wife alone in a region where a serious thread from sharpteeth is to be expected?
Nope, that doesn't sum up for me. If indeed there was a thread of sharpteeth that would be just another point for Bron NOT to leave his wife alone!
Also it is very unlikely that there is an abundance of places as sheltered and protected as the Great Valley (otherwise what would remain that is special about the Great Valley? Even with the end of the myth of it being the last green place the sequels still repeatedly point out the protection it offers as something special).

Well, there is one tiny thing I forgot to mention.  In the first movie, the narrorator said this:

All that remained of his herd was his Mother, Grandmother and Grandfather.

From this information, we can tell that Grandma and Grandpa Longneck were most likely around during this hard decision.  If you ask me, Littlefoot's Mother was protected from sharpteeth even without Bron around.

And before you continue with your little, "It was the wrong thing to do speech", consider this for a second.  What if he was doing what was wrong to do what was right?

[Malte279]

All that remained of his herd was his Mother, Grandmother and Grandfather.

This quote from the original movie at that time suggested that everyone else from that herd was dead. It would have been much better if they had had a plausible story for Bron which would have included an explanation for why Littlefoot's mother or his grandparents never wondered about him (e.g. because they supposed him to be dead).

From this information, we can tell that Grandma and Grandpa Longneck were most likely around during this hard decision. If you ask me, Littlefoot's Mother was protected from sharpteeth even without Bron around.

Again, this is contradicting your own previous statements. If even Littlefoot's mother and his grandparents where safe enough without Bron, why would he leave them to find a saver place? Wouldn't they be as safe as safe could be, plus having enough to eat, plus not taking in the obvious risks of Bron leaving them?
It simply doesn't sum up! And because it doesn't sum up at all, it makes Bron's actions (and the actions of Littlefoot's mother and grandparents too) not only wrong, but also totally implausible! I'm not ringing the moral bell here to bring Bron down. While there are moral arguments too there are also arguments of reason. Therefore I would rather have my points taken into account by you (same as I'm reacting to yours) rather than having them mocked as a "It was the wrong thing to do speech".

[pokeplayer984]

Dang!        

You win point one!  :angry:

But remember, it's far from over.  Time to see if I can conquer point 2.

2. The way Bron tells the story it appears that almost the moment he left the world turned upside down and changed into the desolate wasteland we know from the original movie. This is highly unlikely and doesn't seem at all the way the situation is described in the original movie. Even if it was a sudden change from paradise to wasteland, would not a responsible Bron have returned immediately to find his wife and unborn hatchling? According to his tail he did, but if this was true, how come he didn't find them? First of all, if there was such a sudden change of situation I reckon Littlefoot's mother would have waited for Bron as long as possible, as she and her parents (the way the contact between Bron and Littlefoot's grandparents is shown we can take it for granted they are not Bron's parents) knew he was going to return as soon as he could (if he ever meant to return). Even if lack of food forced them to move on after all (Bron must have been really far away indeed not to be back by that time) it would have been easy enough for Bron to follow the fresh trail of three grownup longnecks (As Cera pointed out in LBT 10 they leave clear tracks) who certainly tried to leave a clear trail for Bron to follow. There is absolutely no justification why Bron didn't return to his wife right away!

Well, I suspect that you haven't seen the english version and had to translate it from German, and from what I've learned, even the experts who made something called Google Translation, which is one of the top leading language translators on the net, can make mistakes with translating words.

With what I heard, he got back just as "The Great Earthshake" hit.  From that perspective, I can not blame Bron for not finding them, especially with the fact the nest was gone.  That earthquake was HUGE!  It even beats the one in LBT 9.  The trail they would make would be destroyed far too easily by "The Great Earthshake."  With the idea of the trail most likely destroyed, it was simple enough to understand why he couldn't find them right away.

EDIT: W00t! Post 200!! I'm finally a Ducky!  :^.^:

[Malte279]

Well, I suspect that you haven't seen the english version and had to translate it from German, and from what I've learned, even the experts who made something called Google Translation, which is one of the top leading language translators on the net, can make mistakes with translating words.

Sorry, but in fact all my statements are based on the English version which I got hold of long before the German version (which I watched only once or twice hoping in vain for a better explanation in the translation). What he says is:

I went of to find a new home for all of us. When I got back the earthshakes had changed everything. It took me so long to find where the nest had been and nothing was left but a crack in the earth as deep as a mountain is high.

With the description of the crack it seems very likely that in fact he is refering to the big earthquake that seperated Littlefoot and the others from their families. It doesn't make sense however. Just consider this for a moment. Bron had been of to find a new home for them. By the time he got back to where the nest had been the great earthshake had occured. Just for how many years had he been looking for that new home? He left before Littlefoot was born and when he returned an indefined span of time had passed, long enough for Littlefoot to grow up from the cute dinosaur we saw in the hatching scene to a dinosaur able to talk and think critical and all that. He must have been gone for a long time indeed, much longer than I consider responsible.
You are right to say that this Great Earthshake would have wipped off any tracks of Littlefoot's mother. However, if he was able to learn from another dinosaur that she had been killed by a sharptooth I don't see why it would be impossible for him to find out where she had meant to go and where everyone else was still going.
The role of Littlefoot's mother herself too needs to be questioned, why did she and Littlefoot's grandparents move away if they knew Bron had set out to find a place for them? Wouldn't they expect him to return soon (obviously he didn't) and wait for him as long as possible? Or was there any kind of unanimous agreement?
My thesis remains. The makers of LBT simply messed up by putting Bron into a story where he simply didn't fit in. They didn't even bother to give a logical explanation for his previous absence.

[pokeplayer984]

Well, I was exploring possibilites on your statement, and I think I came up with something.

"The Great Valley" is a widely known legend for dinosaurs, correct?

Of course, with it being a legend, we can't forget the possibility that some may believe "The Great Valley" to be a myth.  I must admit, it is hard to believe of a place that sharpteeth CAN'T enter and only leafeaters can.  In fact, The Great Valley has proven to not be that kind of place completely.  The Great Wall does indeed make it VERY difficult for others to get in.  However, we know there HAS to be some sort of enterance for even the biggest leafeaters to enter.  Thus meaning even a sharptooth could get in.

With this information, it made me wonder if Bron was actually told of such a place, but simply didn't believe it existed.  I wonder if you, Malte, even thought of THAT possibility.  Maybe he was told, but he simply didn't believe in it.

What do you think?

[Malte279]

With this information, it made me wonder if Bron was actually told of such a place, but simply didn't believe it existed. I wonder if you, Malte, even thought of THAT possibility. Maybe he was told, but he simply didn't believe in it.

It is an interesting question. Information on this matter in the first movie is contradictory:

Narrator: Desperate for food some of the dinosaur herds stuck out for the west searching for the Great Valley; a land still lush and green.

Littlefoot: My mother said it's where all the herds were going

But most important of all:

Some things you see with your eyes, others you see with your heard!

Maybe Bron's unable to see with his heart, but would not his wife have told him what her heart told her? Also with many herds (maybe many is a term between some and all we can settle on) heading for the Great Valley it doesn't seem plausible for Bron not to head that way to find his son even if he did not believe in the Great Valley. I really don't see how he possibly could have not give that option a try in all the years if he was serious about finding his son.

[pokeplayer984]

Hmm, a part of me is thinking that maybe he entered the valley in the middle of LBT 5, and finding no one, and nothing to eat, left the place forever. ^_^;

Okay, maybe not. -_-

Okay, let's think about how the change came to be.

Now, earlier we talked about the possiblity of a metor being the cause.  However, there is questionable debate of the missing timeline.  Which hold questions with unknown answers.

First off, how long does it take for an egg from an Apatosaurs to hatch, much less develop after the mating process?

How long exactly was it between Littlefoot hatching and the first time he talked?  According to the book you have, it's 5 years, but I'm not believing it.

In other words, was it really such a sudden change, or was it longer than we thought?

Hard to say, huh?

[Malte279]

How long exactly was it between Littlefoot hatching and the first time he talked? According to the book you have, it's 5 years, but I'm not believing it.

In other words, was it really such a sudden change, or was it longer than we thought?

I suppose it must have been at least some time for him to grow that much. However, Chomper is the prove that apparently dinosaur kids in LBT are rather quick in the uptake of language (while Petrie, Dinah, and Danah may be hold against that)  
Either way, what would be the difference as far as Bron is concerned?
Had there been only a very short time between his departure, Littlefoot's hatching and the great earthquake (which seems to be what Bron is claiming) the question about Littlefoot's mother and grandparents remains. Wouldn't they have waited for Bron for just a little while? Would it not be easy for him to pick up the track (earthquake or no earthquake) of either Littlefoot or his grandparents, if travellers at that time could even tell him about his wife's fate?
The other variant (though more likely from what we saw in the original movie) casts an even unkinder light on Bron. In that case we really would have to wonder why he would be gone for so long.
To sum it up: Had Bron been gone for only a short time, how come that apparently he was so unable to find back to Littlefoot or his grandparents. Had Bron been gone for a long time; well, why would he?

[DarkHououmon]

Sorry Malte, but I afraid I strongly disagree with your view on Bron. I see no reason to consider him as being cold-hearted, selfish, or careless in any aspect. If he was truly cold-hearted, he would have left Littlefoot to die at the claws of the sharpteeth, but he didn't did he? No, he risked his life to save Littlefoot, and thus, he is no cold-hearted character, nor is he careless.

A lot can happen in the Mysterious Beyond, and dramatic changes can happen overnight (or so I believe). A tilt, for example, had transformed the Sahara into the lifeless desert it is today. If such a thing ocurred in LBT (there's no evidence for it, but it's just my idea), then the land would have changed far beyond recognition. Littlefoot's mother would have been forced to move on, regardless if her mate was away or not, and Bron would have not been able to recognize the land well enough to know exactly which direction his mate would have gone.

Bron might not have known where the Great Valley was. Whether or not he knew it existed, I don't know, but I don't think he really knew where the valley was, so he ended up wandering around aimlessly.

I feel really bad for Bron. If he was lying, then he was really good at it. But I do not believe, for a second, that he lied. He might have left a few details out, but probably just to protect Littlefoot. There are indeed somethings that one should never know.

[action9000]

Something else to consider, too:

The LBT series is Not known for its detailed or even specifically Accurate storytelling and recollections of previous events.  The earlier films (1 through 4 especially) were able to keep a good level of consistancy in character and story, I thought, and I have no issues with how they were done.

LBT 4: All we know of Ali is that she is in a migrating herd who recently came from the Land of Mists.  Later on, we learn that she spent all of her social life with longnecks, which adds more detail.  Still, her background is quite sketchy.

LBT 6: The story of the Lone Dinosaur is told in some level of detail, through the opening's story and the song "Lone Dinosaur" (most of which in the song is fiction, but that's besides the point).  Overall, the story of the Lone Dinosaur is one of the better-developed historical stories in the series, and it is Meant to be sketchy for the sake of mystery.  Ironic, isn't it? :

In LBT 7, there is a well-known discussion between the Gang about who crosses the vine first (when chasing after Pterano's posse).  A comment is made that Cera is always at the back of the line whenever the Gang had left the Great Valley previously, yet in earlier films, we clearly see that Cera has never Once been at the back of the line when crossing any sort of gap.

Also in LBT 7, when the gang finds Ducky in the cave.  The story of how ducky got there was kept extremely short (under 10 seconds).  While this isn't as important of a story as Bron's, I believe this trend continues in LBT 10's Bron story.

LBT 8: Thicknose's story, told in his song.  Most of the song is about the theme of never being too old to learn.  A few seconds of the song tells the story of his life, but this detail is kept Very minimal.  The story of where the Spiketails came from is also kept very sketchy.  All we really know is they are from "The cold lands", likely on a more polar point on Earth than the Great Valley but possibly a mountainous area (though the lack of food in mountainous regions would suggest against that).  Anyways, that's a different topic altogether.

LBT 9: The background of where Mo came from is kept very simple.  We know nothing of his family except from what we see of how they act around him at the end.  The story of how he got to the Great valley was kept very short and simple.

LBT 10: One of the most major, important backstories in the entire series is told in a matter of a couple of minutes, which is certainly possible if the most Relavent information is given to the audience.

My point?  I have a couple.
If the previous sequels were so skimpy on details, why should LBT 10 be any exception?  I believe that the important parts were left out and the parts that we hear are mis-interpretted to mean something outside of the original context of what truly happened.  I understand that a children's movie will naturally have less detail offered to the audience than a more mature film but I think a story can be basic while still being well-done.

I think that the wrong parts of the story were told to the audience in the wrong way, and I think that Darkhououmon has some very good points.

Bron says that he couldn't find Littlefoot but there could be any number of reasons for that.  Bron could have fallen ill or become disoriented in the sudden change of the landscape (or for some other unexpected reason).  The change of seasons could have changed the position of the Sun and the stars, thereby throwing off Bron's navigation.  

Some details were left out of the story that could have explained what Bron was Truly saying.  Remember that Bron was talking to a child, and probaby was light the details for a number of reasons.  Perhaps something horrible happened during his search that he didn't want to tell his son until perhaps he was older.

Why did Bron leave his wife when they had a perfectly good place to live?
Perhaps the area was becoming overpopulated or there was a wave of poor living conditions moving in their direction.
Why didn't she come with him?
Perhaps she wasn't in good condition to travel or couldn't move her eggs without fear of breaking them.  Maybe some were broken in the process of trying to bring her with them and a single egg survived.  At that point, I can certainly see her wanting to stay behind.

Why didn't Bron check the most obvious place, the Great Valley?
Consider the directions given to Littlefoot on how to Find the Great Valley:
Follow the Bright circle (where it touches the ground) past the rock that looks like a longneck and past the mountains that burn.

On Earth, the sun touches the horizon in two places: one in the west, one in the east.  If Bron had simply followed the morning sun instead of the evening sun, he could have ended up in the completely wrong part of the world.  Maybe Bron simply couldn't Find the great valley for a reason as simple as this.

How to find the Great Valley is on a topic completely different from this one (maybe I will start a topic on that) so I will stop there.  I sincerely think this story is explainable but we just lack a large amount of information.

thoughts?

[Malte279]

Sorry Malte, but I afraid I strongly disagree with your view on Bron. I see no reason to consider him as being cold-hearted, selfish, or careless in any aspect. If he was truly cold-hearted, he would have left Littlefoot to die at the claws of the sharpteeth, but he didn't did he?

Not helping Littlefoot in that situation would have made him really unacceptable indeed. One doesn't need to fail to render assistance in a life threatening situation though to be labeled "cold-hearted". This goes especially for a situation as the one shown in LBT 10 in which the own life is endangered if you intervene. My own view of Bron as a cold hearted character is based more on his behaviour towards Shorty than on his behaviour towards Littlefoot.
Bron took care of Shorty and all the poor defenseless longneck kids he found when he was looking for his son. Doesn't this prove him not to be cold hearted? It might if indeed he did take care of them, but did he really? At least not on his own accord from what we see in the flashback. He checks whether his son is among the kids, finds he isn't, and moves on. Bron doesn't even open his mouth. No word of encouragement, no question if they know anything about the whereabouts of his son, and least of all an invitation to the kids to come along with him. He didn't decide to take care of the kids. They just followed him, knowing it would be safer for them and Bron apparently didn't mind. He did not offer his protection to them, they just took it.
Shorty in particular is the best example for Bron's indifference. He is one of the interesting characters which I hold in favor of LBT 10. But do you think Shorty would have ever turned into a bully if Bron had cared about him beyond saving him from being killed so long he stayed close enough? Throughout the whole movie the only scene in which Bron shows some genuine kindness to Shorty is when during the herd's departure he takes him onto his head. Shorty might have considered Bron a father, but Bron did not consider him a son. From what Bron told Littlefoot. All the others young longnecks found parents, but not Shorty. Bron didn't even consider being a kind of fatherfigure for Shorty! One might argue that he was allegedly so focused on finding his son that he may have had no mind at all for Shorty, but it is not a sign of him being particularly warm-hearted if he apparently feels he couldn't take care of another kid. Bron seems to be more like a leader than a parent to Shorty. Did he even try to talk to Shorty after Littlefoot turned up? There is no such scene in the movie, and the determination of Shorty to leave suggests that there wasn't so much as a kind word to him.  

As for Bron's story about his leaving of Littlefoot's mother, even if indeed the fertile land they were shown in in the flashback was overcrowded, it would have made much more sense to wait until the egg hatches and then set out all together. Looking at the amounts of green shown in that flashback it really doesn't sound credible that there shouldn't have been enough for the longnecks to live on during the limited time until the egg hatches. But for all we know the eggs hadn't even been laid by that time. There are several broken shells besides Littlefoot's egg in the original movie. The landscape is entirely different though.

A tilt, for example, had transformed the Sahara into the lifeless desert it is today.

That's certainly true, but did the Sahara come into existence in as short a time as it takes for a dinosaur egg to hatch? With all the dramatic changes that took place the Sahara didn't turn from a lush pasteure into a sandbox within a few days (as must have been the case according to Bron's story). The only possible explanation for such an abrupt change might be a meteor impact, yet even in that case the region not directly affected by the resulting fires (which would have killed the dinosaurs there) wouldn't turn from green into grey in a day. Bron must have had the time to return unless he wandered a distance that would take him months to cover at least; and why would he?

Why didn't Bron check the most obvious place, the Great Valley?
Consider the directions given to Littlefoot on how to Find the Great Valley:
Follow the Bright circle (where it touches the ground) past the rock that looks like a longneck and past the mountains that burn.

On Earth, the sun touches the horizon in two places: one in the west, one in the east. If Bron had simply followed the morning sun instead of the evening sun, he could have ended up in the completely wrong part of the world. Maybe Bron simply couldn't Find the great valley for a reason as simple as this.

How to find the Great Valley is on a topic completely different from this one (maybe I will start a topic on that) so I will stop there. I sincerely think this story is explainable but we just lack a large amount of information.

An interesting question to be discussed
I do not see it as an excuse for Bron though. Even if we accept that he didn't see some things with his heart (a point I'm willing to accept) the location of the Great Valley seems to be common knowledge in the sequels, or in the lands west of the lands from the original movie. Ali's herd knows where the Great Valley is located, Doc does, so do the Farwalkers in LBT 7, and the spiketails in LBT 8. Even Mo's waterkin (whom I suppose never got anywhere near the Valley) could give directions towards the Great Valley. Under this condition it is hard for me to believe that anyone really looking for the Great Valley would be unable to find it.

If the previous sequels were so skimpy on details, why should LBT 10 be any exception? I believe that the important parts were left out and the parts that we hear are mis-interpretted to mean something outside of the original context of what truly happened. I understand that a children's movie will naturally have less detail offered to the audience than a more mature film but I think a story can be basic while still being well-done.

I think the best point is that I'm being unfair for blaming Bron for what those committed who thought of the story of LBT 10. A few minor changes could have made it a lot more credible. Looking at the way it was done I can't help thinking that in almost every single scene with Bron, he does or says something that is either not credible or unkind. However, as from Littlefoot's point of view it would be difficult to blame the producers of LBT... (Oh my gosh, that would would be an interesting example of cartoon dinosaur religion if they start blaming their "creators"  :blink:) I can only talk of things Littlefoot would know about.

[pokeplayer984]

Gee, I read what they put up late last night, and I thought they had you so well that I didn't need to put up the little thing that the voice in my head is saying, but you go and counter it like this, and I can see that I was wrong.

Now, even I think the voice in my head is wrong, but if I don't get it out, it'll just keep bothering me.

Okay, now as I have come to understand things in life, one can view something as the complete opposite, when the right conditions are set.

They made a very strong point with finding The Great Valley with the direction details, but you made a strong counterpoint on the fact that herds coming from other directions were able to find it as well.  Indeed, we have to accept that either Bron didn't know of such a place, or that he didn't listen to his heart to guide him there.

Now, a part of me thinks he did find it, but didn't believe it to be because of the time he arrived there, being during LBT 5. (I always didn't like those Swarming Leaf Gobblers. <_<) Of course, if that were the case, why was that left out?  I guess it just doesn't work in the end. -_-

Now, if Bron were cold-hearted, would he have let those kids follow him?  No.  If he were cold-hearted, he would've shooed them off and left them to die in the barren wasteland he found them in.  He must've indeed taken care of them for some time before running into someone else.  Be it a few days, weeks or months is unknown.  I wonder just how long he had to look out for them before some other adult joined him.  For all we know, it could've been a rather short amount of time or quite a number of months.

Now understand that as I saw it all, Shorty was taking care of those other kids before Bron came along.  He also seemed to be rather protective when Bron looked them over.  Shorty seemed to be the leader of the kids as it were.  They stayed behind Shorty for protection.  I actually think Shorty was always like that, even before he met Bron.  It took Littlefoot accepting him as a brother to soften the bully within him.  Anyways, it seemed to me that when Shorty accepted Bron as being someone to look after them, the others did too.

I think it was that last part that you missed.  Shorty has always been like this before he even met Bron.  In this little prespective, you really can't use Shorty to figure out Bron, can you?

Okay, I got that part out of my mind.  Now let's see what Malte does to counter it.

[Malte279]

I suppose the label "cold-hearted" I attached to Bron is missing the point. The term doesn't describe the nature of Bron's actions respectively inactions. You are right about that, no doubt.
"Indifferent" may be more to the point. Bron didn't really care whether the kids followed him or not. If one of the kids in his company had been attacked I suppose he would have cared enough to fight of an attacker (which might be a thread to him as well). But had the kids not followed him there is nothing to suggest that leaving them to probable death would have triggered so much as a shrug from Bron. His care about his herd too seems rather dubious and LBT 10 is contradictory in itself about this point. While on the one hand it is said that all longnecks (save Ali, save Ali's mother, save the Old One, save Doc...) went to that crater it seems that Bron left a part of his herd behind on the way. At the end of movie he is so extremely eager to rejoin the part of the herd he left that he will do so rather than go with his recovered son. But why does a leader leave a part of his herd in the first place? Where did he leave them? Did he leave them unprotected in the Mysterious Beyond which seems to have some population of sharpteeth in the area surrounding the crater? Or did he leave them in a sheltered place he refers to as "back home" unless my memory is cheating me? The later case would strongly imply that Bron and his herd settled in a kind of Great Valley like place (which would support the view that Bron had abandoned any thought of continuing his search for Littlefoot). In other parts of the movie it is suggested that Bron is leading a migrating herd (this is implied in the flashback and by his promise to come to the Great Valley with his herd). Whichever way I turn it, it doesn't make any sense.
If Bron went to the Great Valley throughout LBT 5 he either must have left his herd behind once again, or else he must have led the whole herd through a large part of land with no food at all (remember the long Journey in LBT 5 before the herd decided to split up), which isn't very thoughtful either. I'm afraid we must settle for the fact that either way Bron wasn't mentioned in LBT 5 because by that time nobody knew he would be introduced to LBT some day  
I like your comparison of Shorty and Bron. With all his rough shell  Shorty seems to be able to care more about others than Bron. Then again he apparently needs a perilous situation to show that kind of responsibility (he acted bullyish not only towards Littlefoot when he was introduced in LBT 10).

[pokeplayer984]

If Bron went to the Great Valley throughout LBT 5 he either must have left his herd behind once again, or else he must have led the whole herd through a large part of land with no food at all (remember the long Journey in LBT 5 before the herd decided to split up), which isn't very thoughtful either. I'm afraid we must settle for the fact that either way Bron wasn't mentioned in LBT 5 because by that time nobody knew he would be introduced to LBT some day  

Okay, what I meant by him finding it during LBT 5, was that he had yet to develop the so called "herd" that he made.  In other words, it is meant to be after he began his "rather long" search for his son but before he met Shorty.

But thank you for helpping me in clearing that voice.  I hope that makes it shut up already! :angry:

[DarkHououmon]

He checks whether his son is among the kids, finds he isn't, and moves on. Bron doesn't even open his mouth. No word of encouragement, no question if they know anything about the whereabouts of his son, and least of all an invitation to the kids to come along with him. He didn't decide to take care of the kids. They just followed him, knowing it would be safer for them and Bron apparently didn't mind. He did not offer his protection to them, they just took it.

But that doesn't disprove one thing: the tragedy he endured. It probably left him a bit callous, unwilling to open up his heart to others for fear of being hurt again. Bron probably couldn't face the pain of seeing those young longnecks because it reminds him of the son he lost. Maybe he thought he wouldn't be a good caretaker, and didn't want to cause the deaths of more lives.

Plus, LBT stories do *not* tell you the whole story. They never have. So Bron probably did talk to the kids; we just don't see it in the background. But just because we don't see it does not mean it didn't happen.

That's certainly true, but did the Sahara come into existence in as short a time as it takes for a dinosaur egg to hatch? With all the dramatic changes that took place the Sahara didn't turn from a lush pasteure into a sandbox within a few days (as must have been the case according to Bron's story). The only possible explanation for such an abrupt change might be a meteor impact, yet even in that case the region not directly affected by the resulting fires (which would have killed the dinosaurs there) wouldn't turn from green into grey in a day. Bron must have had the time to return unless he wandered a distance that would take him months to cover at least; and why would he?

That was only an example, nothing more. I wasn't refering there being a tilt at the time of this, but just to show climate can change very rapidly. Another trigger is the pole shiftings. They can cause abrupt, and devastating changes in the landscape. Not only that, but they cause changes in the electromagnetic field, shifting north into south and east into west.

This abrupt change can cause deadly transformations in the weather. Whether or not they happen overnight, I do not know. But there must have been a reason Bron left alone to find a new home if he could sense the change coming. Maybe it was a good thing he left alone. Think about it; had they all gone, if something terrible happened, they would have all died. But instead, Bron was probably making the ultimate sacrifice by being the only one to go, so if something bad did happen, only he would suffer, and his son would have a chance.

I do not see it as an excuse for Bron though. Even if we accept that he didn't see some things with his heart (a point I'm willing to accept) the location of the Great Valley seems to be common knowledge in the sequels, or in the lands west of the lands from the original movie. Ali's herd knows where the Great Valley is located, Doc does, so do the Farwalkers in LBT 7, and the spiketails in LBT 8. Even Mo's waterkin (whom I suppose never got anywhere near the Valley) could give directions towards the Great Valley. Under this condition it is hard for me to believe that anyone really looking for the Great Valley would be unable to find it.

Once again, I look at what Bron was going through after he learned about his wife's death. When you lose someone you care about, you don't tend to be thinking straight; your mind is clouded. Even things that are so obvious seem to alude you. And losing a partner is one of the most devastating things that can happen. It is a life-changing experience, in a negative way.

Bron probably fell into depression, just like Littlefoot did. Perhaps Bron forgot about asking directions because of his loss and his guilt about leaving in the first place. And when you don't think about something for a long time, it can disappear from your mind, or be pushed far back into your mind. This probably happened to Bron.

And something else to consider: during this time, the dinosaurs were keeping to themselves, to their own kind. Now one would think, "But if he just wants directions, wouldn't they help?" Well I would think so if I didn't know about a Land Before Time book where the kids encounger two different species of dinosaurs. One had treestars, the other had water. One was thirsty, the other hungry. Littlefoot suggested that they share, but they refused to. Despite the fact they were both suffering, neither side cared about what happened to the other, and were so unwilling to be associated with them.

Bron was wandering during this time, when dinosaurs kept to their own kind, not liking to be near someone who wasn't like them. If Bron had tried to talk to, oh say, a Threehorn or a Spiketail, they would have given him the cold-shoulder, and thus he'd be left alone.

Now why couldn't he just talk to another longneck? Simple; perhaps he just couldn't find another longneck he could talk to. And what about the Farwalkers? Even if Bron knew they existed, what would be the odds of him finding them? And had he experienced negativity from other species of dinosaurs, maybe he would have thought what were the odds of the Farwalkers being willing to help.

Also, about Mo's waterkin, they live in the ocean. Bron was not anywhere near the ocean, now was he? So he could not have gotten directions from them; he probably didn't even know where the ocean was, or if it existed or not. He probably didn't know; remember Littlefoot's reaction when they first saw the ocean? They apparently haven't seen it before. Same is probably true for Bron.

Shorty in particular is the best example for Bron's indifference. He is one of the interesting characters which I hold in favor of LBT 10. But do you think Shorty would have ever turned into a bully if Bron had cared about him beyond saving him from being killed so long he stayed close enough? Throughout the whole movie the only scene in which Bron shows some genuine kindness to Shorty is when during the herd's departure he takes him onto his head. Shorty might have considered Bron a father, but Bron did not consider him a son. From what Bron told Littlefoot. All the others young longnecks found parents, but not Shorty. Bron didn't even consider being a kind of fatherfigure for Shorty! One might argue that he was allegedly so focused on finding his son that he may have had no mind at all for Shorty, but it is not a sign of him being particularly warm-hearted if he apparently feels he couldn't take care of another kid. Bron seems to be more like a leader than a parent to Shorty. Did he even try to talk to Shorty after Littlefoot turned up? There is no such scene in the movie, and the determination of Shorty to leave suggests that there wasn't so much as a kind word to him.

Just because you don't see it does not mean it didn't happen. Bron was probably so overjoyed that he found out his son was indeed alive that he just didn't want to let go. Have you ever felt like you almost lost something, and when you found out you didn't, you don't want to let go, for fear of losing it?

Bron did show a hint of guilt near the ending, if I remember correctly. He obviously did feel bad about hanging out with Littlefoot and not with him, but I don't think he was mistreating Shorty. He never actually told Shorty he couldn't hang out with him and his son, nor did he actually say he didn't consider himself a fatherly figure. I believe he did; and this is apparent in the first scene we see him in.

He disciplined and corrected Shorty when he saw him trip Littlefoot. Bron would not have done this if he didn't consider himself a fatherly figure. If I remember correctly, Bron never said he didn't adopt Shorty. He didn't mention it, but that doesn't automatically mean he didn't. So I do believe Bron really was caring for Shorty; we just don't see much of it in the movie.

[pokeplayer984]

You raise quite the interesting point, DarkHououmon.  I myself have gone through the pain of losing someone I cared about. :cry2 I understand some of the pain Bron went through.  I still think about the one I loved and lost to this day, but I don't let it get in the way of living my life the way I want.  Who knows?  I just might have another chance. And if I don't, I'll always remember the good times I had.

Be it a family member, a close friend or someone who inspired you, losing them can hurt you so much, you can become depressed.  Bron lost his wife.  I'm sure he cared about her deeply, otherwise, why would he go through such a state of depression?

It seems the only reason he was indifferent was that he went through a state of depression.  An experience like that can turn even the kindest person into a cold blooded being.