Violence in Video Games

[Littlefoot1616]

Hey guys!

Whether you're a gamer or not, there is a grand scrutiny about whether or not the violent content of 18/M rated (and sometimes ratings below it) is actively contributing to the violent nature of these psychopathic "individuals" who are running around inflicting horrific acts against others. Of course, the most recent shooting is still at the forefront of people's minds and damnation from organisations such as the NRA and various politicians are still pegging these atrocities on influences brought on by video games. I read today that the Obama Administration is looking at investing $500 million into a thorough investigation (yes... again...) into the infliction of violent games on the minds of today's youthful minds. I've been seen various game website and blogs talking about violent games and violent behaviour in children, so I was wondering what the GOF's take on all this is. What do you make of all this chatter that "violent video games are creating the next batch of murderers, psychopaths and general madmen to wander our streets"? Do you yourself indulge in a bit of violent fantasy and what effect (if any) do you feel it has on you? Contribute below and let's see what the gaming (and non-gaming) communities of this forum have to say.

[DarkHououmon]

I don't think violent video games plays as big a part as people like to think. There is a video I could link to of a guy who has a similar view as I do on violent video games and what effects it has on the psyche, but the video in question contains actual footage of a real death (of a politician killing himself on screen to avoid dishonor or something). I don't know if I should link that here or refrain from it and perhaps starting a topic in After Midnight and posting it there.

But the gist of what he says in the video is that gamers do not want real violence and that violence in both movies and video games is cartoony even in the realistic stuff. It's exaggerated and made not to look like the actual thing, because death is too serious to be entertaining and that the brain is able to discern real death from fake ones. Jimquisition (the guy who made the video) said that when he posted the real death in a real old video without warning anyone, a lot of people, gamers actually, were really upset with him and said how disturbing and creepy the video was.

When posting it again in this new video, he did put a warning, but he had to fight and really convince a lot of people, all gamers, to let him show it. Some of these gamers play violent video games and yet they were hesitant to let him post up that footage again. Jim doesn't have trouble posting up clips of movie or video game violence, but runs into hot water when posting up the real deal because, again, we can tell the difference between an actual death and cartoonized death.

So honestly I don't think violent video games turns anyone into killers really. People just like to point blame at something. But even if violent video games were banned totally, there would still be violence. People could be "inspired" by something else, and that something else will get the blame. It's an endless cycle.

If I am able to post the video here, I'll edit my post later and put the link in. Jim has kindly included a time stamp frame so if you want to skip the actual suicide scene, you can.

[Littlefoot1616]

You're talking about the Jimquisition on The Escapist aren't you? I saw that too (I watch Jim Sterling's show every week). Given its graphical nature I thank you for not posting it up here DH. However, anyone who wants a solid view on the subject should check it out. Be warned as DH says it shows a live graphical image of someone who physically committed suicide on stage of a conference. NONE OF IT IS CENSORED!!! It's not there as a gross out but to demonstrate the point that people, gamers in particular, can tell the difference between shooting a digital avatar and the shooting of a REAL person and not blur the line that separate reality from fantasy. The video is time stamped so if you want to hear the argument without seeing that section of the report, you can skip it. Plus you are given plenty of warning up front. But I too agreed with Jim Sterling's views on the matter (thank god for him - anyone who watches the show will get that joke )

[DarkHououmon]

Yeah definitely not censored. Anyone wanting to check out the video, be warned. Good thing Jim does put in the time stamp so if you don't feel like you could stomach it, you can skip it.

[bushwacked]

The video you're talking about is the suicide of Budd Dawyer I think. He killed himself because he was wrongly accused of some kind of fraud, and if he didn't die his family wouldn't get any money while he was in jail. It's pretty sad.

Anyway, I don't think violent games are an influence either. Somebody has to already be unhinged if they're going to commit a violent act like the recent school shooting. Considering how many people play the games they blame, like Call of Duty and all that, if they were really the cause these kinds of events would be a lot more frequent.

[Nick22]

violent videogames are not responsible for shoottings, videogames and other stuff are way way way down the list.

[Kor]

As have been said before folks prefer to point fingers and blame something.  Today it's video games, before it was cartoons, movies, tv, comic books, ect.  Instead of saying some folks are unhinged normally, or crack because they are teased, or other reasons.

[Malte279]

I do believe that in combination with several other factors such games can contribute to kids turning out that way. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that such games by themselves turned anyone into killers and not even all kinds of violent fantasies need to be so destructive (I suppose many a kid dreams about the heroic battles one would fight as a knight in shining amor against some faceless enemy ). However, if for lack of time on the part of the parents or other people video game characters gunning down thousands of annonymous enemies become the only real role model I don't doubt that this will have an effect on the kids psyche. I think it is very crucial that kids are tought to really mind the difference between reality and virtual reality. It wasn't until my eighth or ninth year of life that we got one computer at home and up to that point I hadn't had any actual contact with computers. Newer generations (including most members of the GOF I think) have grown up with computers and consoles since the first day of their lives. This can in many respects have very beneficial effects since undoubtedly the kids learn a lot from the use of computers. However, same as it would influence the mind of a kid if the parents read out "Mein Kampf" as a bedtime story to their kids (okay, that woudl be very creepy parents) I think it can have a negative effect if kids spend a good part of their childhood gunning down zombies on the screen while getting less in contact with the real world, while having no other role models than the game character and while having real life weapons lying around all over the place.
It has often been shown in experiments that kids imitate what they see on a screen (e.g. in one experiment they showed two groups of kids a movie in one of which somebody beat up a puppet. Next the kids were brought in a room with a lot of toys including the kind of puppet shown in the movie. The group which had seen the movie with the beating up of the puppet almost invariably started to do just that while the kids who had seen a peaceful movie were just playing around). Video games alone don't turn anyone into a killer, but I don't think the factor which such games can play under the right (wrong) circumstances ought to be denied for fear of sanctions on the gaming industry.
I can't deny I am a little a/bemused about the conflict between some gamers and some weapon lovers on which of the two is to be blamed (and therefore possibly sanctioned).

[Cyberlizard]

I find this whole argument to be completely disgusting.  I remember when my kooky old grandpa started complaining about gun control, what was his first excuse?  Video games!  Seriously, if I hear one more old codger use video games as a scapegoat I'm going to scream...

It seems like no amount of explaining is going to convince these people.  They'll find a scapegoat rather than address an issue practically.  It's bad influences on parts of the parents and not the video games themselves!  I was taught at an early age to distinguish between fantasy and reality.  I play violent games all the time and even though my mom hates it, she knows that I won't go shoot up a school or jack somebody's car.  The biggest problem is these senile old folks think that just because they're "old" that they're right.  They're out of touch with the generations after them.  It's always been this way for decades if not centuries, becoming more prevalent starting with the rebellious teens of the 50s and violent comic books.  Older generations will never, I repeat, never have a full understanding of their grandkid's generation.  Ever.

[landbeforetimelover]

Violent video games are a contributor to violent behavior, but they are NOT the only cause.  A lot of it has to do with genetics.  Whether a person is violently inclined or not for example.  There are plenty of people that play horrifically violent video games yet they don't go shooting up schools or murdering people.  But for example if someone has other circumstances, they too can contribute to violence.  Like if they had an abusive father that could contribute some.  But above all else, I believe a person's genetic factors are what cause them to be violent or not.  Violent video games by themselves do NOT cause someone to become a murderer.  The very notion of that is just ridiculous.

[WeirdRaptor]

Or something's wrong with their head. The primary contributor over whether or not someone can turn violent after playing a video game is their own sanity.

[Mumbling]

No, violence comes from badly raised kids OR mental issues OR cropped up stressful issues.

- I definitely see my little brother shooting 60 people 'cus he played left 4 dead! - *cough*

[Ghostfishe]

I do think that people are affected by what they see, and that violent games can get into a person's head, especially if they're still very young and impressionable. But I suspect that in cases where violence has been linked to games, at least as often (if not more often) it's the other way around. If you have someone who already has violent tendencies, they will want to indulge themselves in that somehow... they will gravitate toward things that allow them to act out violence. Video games fit the glove very well because (at least in our culture) not a lot of people take notice when a teenager or young adult spends a lot of time playing video games. It's pretty common.

IMO the fact that a killer may have played these games a lot is just one smaller symptom before their fixation reared its ugly head in a more noticeable way. I think it's pretty well-known by now that people who abuse other people as adults, often abused animals when they were younger... but there isn't really a way to play a violent video game "non-violently", so it's easy for people to just gloss over the person's motives for playing and blame the game itself.

[Littlefoot1616]

I don't disagree with the notion that images and glamorous portrayal of violence can be influential on some. Working in a school, I've seen young kids running around pretending to act like soldiers and miming shooting each other or invisible enemies (I'm talking 6-7 year olds) and older children mimicking video game heroes and actions they take (8-9 year olds). Heck, I've had one to one conversations about Call of Duty with kids who are blatantly under age but every single one of those children I've spoken to told me that they know the distinct difference between the fantasy world of games and the real world. I had a child tell me he was pretending to be Ezio Auditore from Assassin's Creed at playtime but none of this reflected in his behaviour towards any other adult or child he came into contact with. I still don't think it right to brand video game players as "lovers of gratuitous violence" and "killers waiting to happen". That's not what games are about and any logical sane human being should be able to see that rather than throwing out prejudicial comments.

I don't normally get to heated on debates but I've got make myself heard when I heard this bullcrap drop from the gob of a CA senator after his bill to pass a law on violent video games failed to hit home.

Article's here --> Gamespot - CA senator says gamers need to 'quiet down'
Gamespot - CA senator says gamers need to 'quiet down'

The long and short of it is that Leland Yee is still holding gamers and the gaming industry as an accountable influence for the Newtown atrocity (nothing new heard there). What's really griped me is his comment that gamer need to "quiet down" and that "gamers have no credibility in this argument" and have a "lust for violence". That is grade A bollocks served up right there! Yee is actively attacking gamers and the industry for the despicable actions of the sicko who felt the need to open fire on a school (a singular person out of the entire populace) and then has the audacity to dare say that gamers should basically "shut up and take the lashing being delivered." That is plain wrong.  Yee is showing nothing but ground level stereotyping in its rawest and ugliest form and even stating that the people in question (that he is actively addressing) do not deserve to have their rightful say to defend what he is openly attacking. That, to me, just sounds like suppression. Put up and shut up; and I refuse to abide by that.

I've seen enough cyber body parts go flying and racked up enough kills on games to warrant the death penalty ten times over, but my choice of entertainment (and my persona as a human being) is being scrutinised and bastardised by sightless, narrow-minded figures like Yee who are laying blanket statements all in the effort to point a finger of blame. I am a killer waiting for my moment to do ill because I revel in causing mass murder on a genocidal scale and video games have been my recruitment training regime. Bollocks it has! Whilst I am aware Yee is not saying that to my face, that is the message he is giving out. And I should accept that statement because I have "no credibility on the argument". Sod that!

In amongst the vile acts that these psychopaths are inflicting on communities and society, I'm disgusted that I am being put on par with them. Video game columnists and article writers the world over a doing every ounce they can to show that gamers too are shocked and appalled by these crimes and distance themselves from such sickening behaviour but these members of state and politicians are just flat out refusing to acknowledge this. I'd go as far to say that there is a generational gap between those condemning games and those who play them (as a majority demographic model) but this unsubstantiated view that violent games makes violent people is not justified. Is every person who reads Fifty Shades of Grey either a sexual pest or a rape case waiting to happen? Is a follower of Shakespearean tragedy a murderer, a swindler or a backstabber lying in wait? Is a person interested in historical battles a warmonger planning his/her next invasion of a country? The stereotyping and finger pointing has got to stop...

[Pterano]

I agree that this is just a bunch of stupid bluster and outright red herrings to distract from the REAL issues this country has. I mean heck, Europe, Australia, and Japan all have access to the same game and film markets as the US does and yet they don't have the numbers of gun deaths the US has either.

As for violence in media, I grew up with some dark and violent "kids' movies" in the 90s, and they never impacted me negatively and gave me a blood lust. Heck my dad growing up in the 60s saw cowboys kill each other every week on TV with six shooters, and would play things like "war" outdoors that never left him affected by it. This kind of stuff has ALWAYS been around, in one form or another, and while we certainly see far more blood and guts on TV, games, and movies, I think it's really a combination of factors and how the kid is raised (or not raised for that matter) that will make up the psychology of a killer someday. It can certainly contribute in certain situations, I'm not gonna deny that at all, but the sole cause? Yeah right.  :

[Chomper98]

I don't believe violent games cause violent behaviours. The reason is because I play violent video games, though nothing M though. I have killed video game characters all the time, yet I am a big pacifist in real life.

[Pterano]

^ Same here... totally against killing, myself.

[StrutEggStealer]

^ Same here. I mean, I grew up watching Snow White, Secret of NIMH, LBT, Sleeping Beauty, Dumbo, Disney Renaissance, etc. for the most part, all dark, dramatic, sometimes even violent films... I've wondered why I haven't turned out that way myself and why children nowadays do turn out that way.
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that violence is the majority of what children are exposed to. With not much else to balance it out. I find it so sad that underage children nowadays are watching PG-13 and R-rated films, with disgusting amounts of sensuality, erotica, filthy language, and drug references. Whatever happened to movies being used as entertainment, NOT as references to a psych ward?
Upsetting, to say the least.

[Petrie85]

I play violent games and I never had any issues with them. And I never see a big deal about them. Meaning that I don't think playing them makes people violent. And if it does they need to know the right and wrong. I never in my life killed anyone after playing a shooting game since I know from real and fake. And I've seen dark movie and violent movies and still fine. If people have those thoughts they should see someone about that. I've played Wolfenstein 3D and not one thing in my mind said hey let's go out and kill people. So I think this is false.