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Pay Respect to your Veterans

Caustizer

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Don't forget to wear a poppy tommarow for Remembrance Day, to acknowledge the sacrifices men made in the past so you could live free today.

Once I went to a town council meeting for my hometown, where they chose to give me an award for my outstanding service to the community.  While I was there a WW2 veteran was also present, and he had a street named after him.  Standing next to him I was reminded of how small my deeds were compared to his, and I hope you all feel the same way and take a minute of your time tommarow at 11:11 to remember them.

Caustizer.


Malte279

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Remember courage and sacrifices, but do not forget about what horror and madness (rather than glory and honor) war most basically is.
It is very appropriate to pay respect to those who risked and lost their lives, but at the same time I think we must guard against allowing this tribute to the veterans to be abused on behalf of a glorification of war. I have known many veterans, talked to many, corresponded with many. They had a lot to tell and there were many different things they could tell me. But in one point they all said the same thing.

War is horrible and must be avoided if it can.

I am very aware that mankind has not yet, and possibly may never reach the state of development where wars may be a matter of the past entirely. But so much has been achieved even in the last two decades. Western Europe with all its civilization was a war ridden part of the world. By now the chances of a war here are about zero and I do hope that such developments may get the chance to expand over the whole world eventually.
We are fascinated by war however (and I confess not to be an exception there). In our movies we often see the brave warriors fighting glorious battles accompanied by lovely music that makes you want to grab a gun and "play along". But war is not a game and none of those who have really seen it will claim it to be. Still we like war so much that many of us would love it to be included in the land before time and I daresay that some people even wish they had "their own war" to fight in gloriously same as those young men in the summer of 1914 did who are today known as the lost generation.
Again I must stress that it is absolutely proper to pay respect to those who risked or sacrificed life and / or health in war and the last thing this post is supposed to be is a slander against the brave men who deserve our respect and often our sympathy.
But during my students exchange (in 2002) I attended a veterans day event which made me feel extremely uneasy. There was a lot of talk about glory, patriotism, honor, and sacrifice, but the sense of war and hope for peace remained unmentioned. A young lady who had definitely never been to a field hospital recited a poem in a tone of deepest conviction. I forgot the exact wording, but the central message was her regret (there was a line "...it makes me me sad, it makes me cry...") about the lack of patriotism and readiness to "fight for our country" in the youth of our time. Nobody there seemed to consider the readiness of "our youth" to question the necessity of a war and the love for peace as a quality rather than the degeneration of a generation as which it was depicted. The group of WW2 veterans who were there did not speak and maybe I was just seeing things, but I had the impression that they didn't feel very easy about the sound of this either.

When thinking of war we tend to think of glorious moments of battle, waving flags, and grand heroics on behalf of a glorious cause. Few people ask about the site of a battle the day after the battle was fought and few really make it clear to themselves that the hand or leg shot to pieces in a few split second lasting movie scene would in real live be maimed for the rest of the life of a person who otherwise might have become a great piano player or skier. The man who is shot in a movie scene lasting a split second would in reality be death ever after. He might have had a wife and children who would never see their father again, and possibly parents who, robbed of the help and assistance their son would have offered to them may have died poor and mostly forgotten. Many who were killed in battle did not die a quick and painless death as we so often see in movies. The last one to die mortally wounded at the battle of Waterloo died in 1817. His jaw had been shot away which made eating almost impossible though he was kept alive with spoons of soup until he gradually starved away in pain two years after the battle was fought.
All these are things that we don't like to think or talk about too much but these are the things which are in dearer need of commemoration than the courage and bravery of which there is a very active culture of memory established already.
Remember war for what it is, not for what we would like it to be.


Cancerian Tiger

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Quote from: Malte279,Nov 10 2009 on  07:14 AM
Remember courage and sacrifices, but do not forget about what horror and madness (rather than glory and honor) war most basically is.
It is very appropriate to pay respect to those who risked and lost their lives, but at the same time I think we must guard against allowing this tribute to the veterans to be abused on behalf of a glorification of war. I have known many veterans, talked to many, corresponded with many. They had a lot to tell and there were many different things they could tell me. But in one point they all said the same thing.

War is horrible and must be avoided if it can.

 
 :exactly

I've had many relatives serve in the military, and I've had the honor providing caregiver services to many elderly veterans, and they all basically told me the same thing about war bein' horrible and that it must be avoided if it can.  In fact, whenever I revealed to a patient that I had almost joined the military so I could give back to my country and so my family would be relieved of the burden of having to financially help support my college education, they told me each time they were glad I did not join the service because war is horrible and they would hate for me to lose my life to warfare or even, if I survived, be forever scarred by the horrifying things I would witness in a war.  

While I don't see any justifiable purpose for war, I also have an immense amount of respect for our veterans and appreciate all they have done :yes.


Saft

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I too have immense amount of respect for veterans and appreciate all what they have done.  It really makes me angry when there are people who do not care or understand why we pay our respects to those who sacrificed and are sacrificing for us.


Malte279

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^ I think though that it must it be permitted to question the necessity of the sacrifices they make and ask who is really benefiting from their sacrifices without being accused of being disrespectful towards veterans.
I will even go so far that we owe the veterans to question the necessities they (or rather the active soldiers) are being asked for and make absolutely sure that these horrible sacrifices are never called for unless there is absolutely no alternative whatsoever. There is nothing more disrespectful towards soldiers than allowing their lives to be wasted for questionable or non-existent purposes.


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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Quote from: Saft,Nov 10 2009 on  02:26 PM
It really makes me angry when there are people who do not care or understand why we pay our respects to those who sacrificed and are sacrificing for us.
Are you sure those people exist? even the worst of people I've known respect war veterans, as it'd be pretty poor taste to insult or degrade someone who's given so much of their life away at no gain to themselves.

Quote
I think though that it must it be permitted to question the necessity of the sacrifices they make and ask who is really benefiting from their sacrifices without being accused of being disrespectful towards veterans.

Unfortunately, Malte, rabid support for the concept of war in general is mainly what populates my hometown every day, and it's just inflamed on Veteran's day. A well-reasoned and nevertheless supportive statement like yours, which casts disapproval for the concept of war but support for veterans, would cause people to turn away and spread rumors behind your back. I was called a communist (?) for bringing up Abu Ghraib when someone claimed American fighting is the caliber of morality.

Let me say that I am glad to be in college with 100s of miles of distance from me and those people, and that I am looking forward to this Veteran's day.


Mirumoto_Kenjiro

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I definitely have respects for two veterans in my family:  my father (Vietnam War) and my mom's father (WW2).  I think my dad got my grandfather's name on the Memorial Walk of Fame (or someplace where veterans are better known).


Mirumoto_Kenjiro

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Update and some corrections:  I have three veterans in my family.  One of my uncles from my dad's side was a military doctor in Germany during the Vietnam War (he didn't fight), my dad was a combat engineer and special forces in Vietnam War (he fought), and my grandfather, who was with the supply route to the Soviet Union via North Africa (his name's on the World War 2 memorial).


LBTFan13

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Veteran's Day is always a special day for me. My grandpa was in WWII, I'm pretty sure he was on ships or something. I am very thankful that he lived through the war to share his experiences with me and my family and I thank God for him every year.


Malte279

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Did your (everybody) grandparents tell you about their wartime experiences? I am very, very interested in the accounts of those who lived throughout this time. Does anyone of you have a story from his grandparents that he or she would like to share?


LBTFan13

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My grandpa never really told me specific stories, but I have seen pictures of him in uniform as well as the ship he was on duty for. I'm sorry I don't really remember, so next time I see him I plan on asking him a little more about it because I'm personally interested as well.


Malte279

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It is an advise I can only give to all of you. Talk to your grandparents about the times to which soon nobody will remember anymore. We are the last generation of people who will still have a chance to talk with those who lived to see these dreadful times and we should not let this chance slip. One can learn a lot from ones grandparents and by doing so perhaps also about oneself.

Does anyone else have a story of a veteran to share?


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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My grandfather was the leader of a B-17 bombing squadron in the Pacific theater. He won the Distinguished Flying Cross for an event where the engine and the floor of his bomber got blown out, and he glided the plane to a controlled landing that saved the lives of everyone aboard. He survived the war, but he was never the same.


Mirumoto_Kenjiro

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I got most of my grandfather's stories from other family stories, and sadly he's succumbing to his age.  One day, he was confused on whether or not I was really a girl because I have long hair.

What I do know is that he was involved in the top secret project to supply the Soviets with the equipment to push against the Eastern Front.  I found only a picture of him in uniform in front of the Sphinx in Cairo.


Cancerian Tiger

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Quote from: LettuceBacon&Tomato,Nov 18 2009 on  08:25 PM
He survived the war, but he was never the same.
That was the case with one of my grandfathers.  All I know is prior to joining the Army, he served in the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) for three years.  When he joined the Army, he served as a medic, and he served in Germany (I don't recall which area).  I have a picture of him standing in front of his medic Jeep, and a picture of him with his comrades.  I guess it was the witnessing of so much death and destruction that changed him for life.  He developed PTSD and battled it, especially graphic nightmares, for at least forty years after the war ended.  My grandfather died when I was ten, so I learned all this information about him from a couple of relatives.