The Gang of Five
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The Underdog

Tails_155

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Is Ducky's position the way it is to maintain the 'favorite of the bunch' status?

Ducky has usually been called the 'cute' character which is why so many people seem to like her.
With her batting eyes in the second movie, her almost carefree nature in the first, she's definitely labeled as such.

But: Is that the only way she ends up being the lovable character? Or is there more:
Ducky can easily be seen as the underdog, another common theatrical character for people to like, always getting the short end of the stick, always having the troubles, which sometimes in the course of the plot backfire on them anyway...
let's start with the beginning:

1. Small, and separated from her family, everyone else was too, you say, HOWEVER! Who is the one to have to lure The Sharptooth (I say this capitalized because he was unnaturally invincible) into the 'boss fight' if you will, Petrie's just as small, why not him? Simple, he doesn't learn to fly until it's too late; a perfect setup.

2. The batting eyes plays on the cuteness, but it's her (and Spike's I guess) family who has the stolen egg, meaning she, of course will want to put a stop, but before that, she tries to help Cera in the quicksand before a larger, stronger character will, she's the last voice heard before they fall under, playing on the "aww." She falls off the cliff, and is barely saved by a more 'competent' character if you will.

3. Ducky seems to play almost no role in this movie at all, she's kinda like Action9000's opinion of what Grandma has become after the 4th movie. Almost all her lines seem overly scripted

4. This is among the most obvious of examples, who goes back to save one of (what seemed like too few to me for a 70 foot being) the Night Flowers and is then put in danger, dropped into water, unconscious, and ALMOST eaten? Of course saved by (well,) little brother, simply knocked conscious by a word...

5. Who is most effected by being separated from "mommy." Who falls off the cliff and is almost _again_ eaten by something? Only to be saved by dumb luck? Who is one of 2 (more justified of the 2 I must say) that is "too scared" but capable of crossing the ocean to get their parents?

6. The don't be afraid to walk home in the dark line, of course, is a good example of she's too scared to do things on her own... other than that her only real role in the movie is translating the twins, and getting Cera in trouble in the process. Other than we notice she's not scared of rock jumping over a deep pit, even after 2's experience...

7. She's the bait of the whole movie? Rinkus doesn't want to let her go, she almost falls to her demise at the end, there's more than I can count...

8 left promises of Ducky getting her own movie... but let's take a look:

WHERE TO START?... This'll probably be edited time and again: She can't sleep because Spike is too loud, and moves too much (granted, she could _move_ but it's plot setup.) She is, and she indicates this, singled out by Mr. Thicknose when Spike is also a problem, Spike eats her treestars, and she (tell me this isn't 'cute character' setup) has to learn how to be mad(???? She's at least 6.... I was first mad when i was 2 XD) Which is the setup for the rest of her problems in the movie... She starts to isolate herself from Spike... "I am a swimmer he is not" which makes him feel unwanted. He meets Tippy and they become good, nearly non-talking, friends... the snow comes, she throws the first snowball, (I dunno why I indicate this, but w/e) and then Spike is faced with the 'To leave or not to leave, that is the question' scene now: this scene is particularly interesting, as I've talked with a couple people and I've noticed how few people empathize enough to make the scene make sense, everyone else (at least 4 or 5 people) I've talked to thinks her yelling, even for "expressing [her] feelings" seems rash, and unnecessary, now put it in total perspective, If your (I'll set the scene as well as I can, but it'll still be less realistic) friend, a friend you've known forever, you're best friend, made you mad a couple times, and you kind of shunned them for a while, if they were to meet a new friend, and in the span of less than a week, become friends with someone new, that wouldn't bother most people, HOWEVER, when the time comes, not much after that, and the person s/he met has to leave, and they offer for him/her to come with them, and he couldn't decide whether to be with you, who he's been friends with forever, or someone s/he barely knows? and s/he can't decide who to go with... wouldn't that bother you? Put that on top of a day that wasn't great, and you'd snap too wouldn't you? so she more or less dismisses him, now the audience (at least that this forum mainly includes) knows she didn't mean what she said, however Spike takes it as her true opinion and goes off. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say, and she doesn't understand why he left, then there's a rather touching song, of course, her mom tries to reassure her that it was for the better, and she snaps at her mom, then decides to find Spike, so big sister goes to find little brother and potentially save him, she goes off on her own, well as we've already seen in the series up to now, she isn't casted as a competent character, she's more of a charmer, and she ends up not faring alone too well, it's cold, and she needs help, so let's bring in the rest of the still-Great-Valley kids, oh, and Thicknose, watch the movie, it'll make sense then, to save the person saving the person, back to Ducky, still a fair distance ahead of the others. Calling to Spike, she notices an echo and plays around with that until her feet apparently echo, then she realizes, oh, wonderful, a sharptooth, being too small to do much damage to the beast, she makes the logical decision, RUN!!!! Just in time! the others find her, and begin another 'boss battle' (if you will :p) they save her, which is to be expected of the underdog, and now it's back to Littlefoot and the others being the heroes and Ducky almost being written out as a member of the team, aside from calling. They become very cold, hungry and thirsty, and conveniently find a frozen hot spring (I guess it happens... I dunno...) where they sit and rest, until the end of the movie basically, resting and recovering from the ordeal they've dealt with. (oh and they regain their color, this just always caught my attention, when it's cold or something they seem to lose color, and in this case Spike becomes an almost contrasting color (purple???)) and suddenly, regardless of all that's happened, and how much Spike misses Ducky, he smells food (from x yards away, it's not right there of course) and saves his whole temporary herd, but when he reaches the _same spring_ Ducky and the others already stumbled across, he hears and sees his old friends, but goes to eat food first, this, even for Spike seems uncharacteristically gluttonous. After he eats they're off on the side in their little niche, and Tippy knocks Spike into the deep end where there's some thin ice and he falls in, and Ducky's _mom_ saves him.

To recap: Ducky has all the troubles, and is the only person in the movie who is _saved_ and does not _save_ anyone... pretty unusual to me...

So much for her getting her movie...

9. This movie already has a swimmer, she doesn't really deserve a role in this I guess, other than of course cheerleader...

10. Other than being scared by the things Cera says in Adventuring, running from the sharptooth and being bothered by Cera shrugging Pat's help offer in this movie, this movie could've been written without her saying a word... but she is abused... in a sense, she is incapable of waking big...little... brother... and gets rolled over on... (i know that's a double preposition, and a sentence ending in a preposition, but oh well, it's also in passive for the record of you English majors :p)


11 and 12 are Cera's problem movies, so she takes a mid-front seat for these movies, and we can only have one lead female... right?... right?... I don't make the rules...

11. In this one she plays a fairly contradictory, selfish, and foolish character... And... her little blame game with Petrie after having Littlefoot walk off (her little telling off episode is kinda uncharacteristic too...) This movie could've had a great role for her, after all, she could empathize with these small dinos better than any of the others (except Petrie) oh... and that "DON'T EVER CALL MY DAD THAT AGAIN" line means apparently it's her fault Tria calls Mr. Topps that...

12 is even moreso Petrie's movie...

12. In THIS movie... her 'Closest Friend of Petire' role is taken so she's almost written off again, except her "things might not seem so bad" stuff in Things Change... but Spike bumps her off a cliff, Guido seems to idle on her head in the water, and she, other than that... again doesn't get much of a role... Except getting trampled by Cera after Spike eats all the food off the branch she was eating.

Spike doesn't have a movie that was supposed to be his... but he kind of steals the spotlight from Ducky in 8... and ALL the movies are pretty much Littlefoot's

In the TV series... she seems to play mainly minuscule parts, with the exception of the rising waters episode, where she teaches Tricia to swim... for what it's worth, all it is is her _not_ getting yelled at by Cera...

and of course the "how to be big" scenario in the Cave of Many Voices... She's the 'hero' for what it's worth... all she really plays is temporary distraction, then all the others actually scare the beasts away...

This has been the (evolution... er... wait this is Kansas... they outlawed evolution in Kansas.... hmm... the...) Creation... and dynamics of.... or rather, as you hopefully read to realize... stasis of the character Ducky... Who... even after all this... effectively is my favorite character...

please read, and discuss, and if you see any glaring absences, please tell me what I've missed :)


pokeplayer984

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I know.  I feel rather bad for all the abuse Ducky is put through.  Yet, she's still quite the welcomed member of the gang, regardless.

Oh, and for the record, my avatar pretty much explains who my favorite is.

Out of the gang, Ducky's my second fav, but when you add on guest charcters, thus overall, she becomes number 5. (Order being, Cera, Mo, Ali, Guido, Ducky.)

Why is Cera my fav?  I'm just overly obssessed when it comes to tomboyish girls. :)


Tails_155

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It's a long read I know, but oddly I have a feeling I've missed several points as well

she's welcomed I know, but the directors have just kept one pattern throughout all the movies and even the show as I said... Ducky is basically a punching bag/person who is there... and I just don't know why =\ =/


Malte279

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It's great to see such a long and well thought through post :yes
It would have fitted well to the "Ducky" thread in the character discussion board.
Quote
6. The don't be afraid to walk home in the dark line, of course, is a good example of she's too scared to do things on her own... other than that her only real role in the movie is translating the twins, and getting Cera in trouble in the process. Other than we notice she's not scared of rock jumping over a deep pit, even after 2's experience...
Funnily enough Ducky doesn't have a problem at all to leap accross the rocky pillars, but walking across the log (which seems to be the less dangerous way of crossing the canyion) terrified her. There is a rare moment of sarcasm when, being "reassured" by Petrie that she might drop into the tiny stream at the bottom of the canyion she responds that she is feeling so much better now.

Anyway, you are right about Ducky being the underdog most of the time rarely doing anything on her own accord (in LBT 5 she was walking of on her own, but apparently she didn't even realize until it was to late and she was in trouble, in LBT 7 it was not exactly HER choice to be forced into some action of her own, and as for LBT 8 you are correct in pointing out that most of the time (except for making up her mind to follow Spike on her own without even asking any of the others to come along) she was again not so much an actor but rather somebody to force others into action.
I do think that Ducky still offers many possibilities for new land before time stories (yep, yep, yep, I do). She need not remain in a role close to the classical "damsel in distress". For example her being smaller than the others (excepting Petrie) and her being a swimmer (quite remarkable that something as important as her ability to "breathe" below the water surface remained unimportant so far) might allow her to pass several obstacles the others couldn't pass. Moreover she might assume the role of a mediator if more stubborn members of the Gang (Cera and Littlefoot) are quarrelling (being not as hampered as Petrie by his fearful nature and Spike by his inability to talk). If for some reason Littlefoot and Cera are unavailable Ducky is probably more likely to take up the helm than Petrie is (Spike might make decisions too the way he did in LBT 4, but her ability to talk makes Ducky the more likely choice whenever more than action is required). Ducky's apparent "language skills" (her ability to give complex meanings to the utterances of Spike, Dinah, and Dana) also offer a lot of possibilities. The LBT movies assume that all leafeating dinosaurs are using the same language. But if the characters ever encounter somebody who doesn't (a character from a far distant place, a character like a scavenger whose language might be a blend of leafeater and sharptooth language, or a character who lost his ability because he or she was isolated for too long a time) Ducky's linguistic skills might come in handy.


Tails_155

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If you'd like i can copypaste it into the Ducky thread...


Tails_155

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I found a Ducky as a hero clip, 18 has her saving Tippy (why does Cree voice Tippy? I thought she was Lizzie, and isn't Tippy a he?)


trexmaster

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I actually find Ducky very annoying. If she says "Yep yep yep" another time, I'd offer her as a sacrifice to a sharptooth.


pokeplayer984

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Quote from: trexmaster,Jun 5 2007 on  01:43 AM
I actually find Ducky very annoying. If she says "Yep yep yep" another time, I'd offer her as a sacrifice to a sharptooth.
Mods, I hope you'll forgive me for what I'm about to do.

*grabs trexmaster in a chokehold and starts punching him senselessly.*


Malte279

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No need for anyone to get so heated. Some LBT fans have a problem with Petrie's false grammer, some do with Ducky's "Yep, yep, yep", and I have heard complaints about Cera's use of the word "dumb", not to mention complaints about Spike's inability to talk...
Get a grip people. Perhaps it is easier for the non-native speaker to tolerate, but I don't really think so. After all they did translate the peculiarities of the characters' language as good as they could which leads to strange results at time. However, I consider the individuality of their language a very important factor to make the characters colorful and individual. Would you prefer to have them talk like all those guys and galls you are talking to every day anyway? I for my part wouldn't.
This is just my opinion and everyone is entitled to disagree with me, but it would take a little more than a "Yep" for me to wish for Ducky to be fed to a sharptooth ;)
I suppose that remark is to be understood as a joke though. No need to take it too serious pokeplayer.


Tails_155

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I agree, it would be bland, verily, if they all talked the same wouldn't it?


Tails_155

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here I go double-posting again...



I think I may do an episode-by episode continuation of this, over time I'll add each episode- these are in Canada's order, not U.S.'s (Thanks Threehorn)

Foreword: Now Ducky has to not only compete for places as one of three females, she also has to compete for placement as one of three small characters... There's much less opportunity for her to have a role, and since it's only a 30 minute show, I'm almost surprised she has lines...

Doesn't Petrie seem to be a caricature of himself? He's hyper-scared compared to normal...

Okay... I have no problems with Ruby as a character, but her speech hurts my head... I don't want to hear a sentence and then hear how it sounds backwards... it's kinda hard to listen to for a long time...

Episode one - The Cave of Many Voices - five words: Teach me to be big... need I say more? Quite different from every other scenario though, she is the hero... so this is her best role yet...?

E.2 is missing

Episode three - The Star Day Celebration - I'm sidetracked... Cera lol... handstands?

Anyways... (wait... Ruby isn't anywhere near the group, how can she accurately point at the star? XD I gotta focus... (is that capable of being a pulley really?... and could a vine really lift a baby stegosaurus? ... DANGIT!...)) oh! She plays the charmer role, other than that she isn't a dynamic character... although at least it's a main role... for all of 2 minutes... or less... I gotta ask... it's burning (since this is the closest thing to a birthday in the show) is it a RULE for surprise parties to result in depressing a person for a day just to surprise them later? It's ridiculous...

Ducky seems to have a better role in the TV series...

Episode four - The Canyon of the Shiny Stones - perhaps I was wrong... GAH THAT SONG... THAT SONG THAT SONG THAT SONG... -passes out- -wakes up- oh... the episode... that's right... There's a size inconsistency in cherry-shaped things or Petrie... oh... subject at hand... Hiding place nearly given away as predicted -.-; and... I'd check Spike for tapeworms... who has to make the most massively irritating song of all time begin? Why does Cera's face keep changing shape? -has BAD A.D.D. today I guess-

they HAVE seen the smoking mountains up close... if they hadn't they wouldn't BE here... would they? People walk musically in this scene... Lava not threatening?

Does she have a dynamic role at all in this one?

Episode five - The Great Log-Running Race - oh...wait.. FOUR females, and FOUR small characters... not to mention, now she's not the only SMALL FEMALE... THROAT SHOT ON TRICIA (with the pear-like thing)... okay that was unnecessary... Can't reach food... excessive superlative and comparative endings to adjectives/adverbs... when did bigotry come back into style for triceratopes? Cera ends up running in like 3 different directions at once... to run in the direction she is in with the log where it is... here we find out Spike is the first incarnation of Heracles... after the game is 'invented'... Ducky is a background character... oh and because it's me... I had to include this XD

Episode six - The Meadow of Jumping Water - Ducky plays a motherly character at the beginning... a way-too-long panic over superstition (my policy on superstition is that being superstitious is bad luck) I have trouble grasping an actual plot to this episode... which is quite disappointing..

Episode seven - The Great Longneck Scheme - Ducky doesn't get a role, there's too many females (I'm exaggerating) but Ducky does have less than a minute of speech I think...

E.8 is gone...

Episode nine - The Legend of the Story Speaker - There isn't much non-Littlefoot/Chomper speech at all really from the gang of seven...

The Sky-Color Stones episode - They took out Ducky and replaced her with a female saurolophus who sounds just like her... that's all I gotta say for this one

I don't have access to the rest of the episodes at the minute



Kor

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A very interesting discussion.  I would guess that certain characters tend to be favored over other characters.  I also wonder if, maybe they main group is a bit to large for a 20 something tv series.  Though that is likely another debate.  

They may not have enough to do to give to all the characters.  I would guess they did not think out a role for each character, which would, maybe, let the group fit better in that each person would have something to do.

Also with her small size she has less potential things she can do.  And many of her potential roles are taken already by others.  Littlefoot is the one who gets most of the good ideas, that I've seen.  In the series, Ruby has certain roles they could have given to Ducky.  Petrie of the same size as one obvious set role as the flier.  Not a not of situations they need a swimmer for of her size.  Maybe it is a problem they did not think to sit down and give each character a role in the group.  Thus Ducky is left as the cute one and often the victim, though others have been that also.


Tails_155

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so far on 13's first viewing: Ducky falls off a cliff, and she (with Petrie) is smashed below the pile of Yellow Bellies

700


Kor

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I guess she and Petrie were not injured to much.