Religion

[lbt/cty_lover]

Wow, this is my first topic in this forum in a while. Well, I was in "Health, sickness, and injury" and the discussion had shifted from what the topic was meant into a discussion on LBT religion.

I have to say, religion doesn't make itself fully apparent, but there is some faith in LBT. The dinosaurs put faith into the Great Circle, and the Circle of Life (not the Lion King version.)  What do you think?

[rosie]

Maybe the the flatteeth do but if that was so,they would accept their fate of being sharpteeth's dinner.

[Coyote_A]

I think, their beliefs very similiar to paganism. They assign mysterious meanings and deeds to such objects, as sun, rain or specific rocks.

[Kor]

a more pagan sort of religion similar to what very ancient humans may have had seems to be similar to what the lbt dinos have, though it may be less detailed then humans may make it, or the lbt writers & such may see no reason or purposely keep things a bit vague and in the background.

[Malte279]

The stories about the causes for a solar eclipse reminds of some pagan legends. "Some things you see with your eyes, others you see with your heart" can also be read as a somewhat religious statement. However, I don't see any form of believe in the land before time that is developed to the point where they think of their faith as the only "right" one with everyone else going into some sort of hell. There is a rather direct contact between Littlefoot and his mother in the first movie; an experience which may well promote a kind of spiritualism. We don't have any direct reference to dinosaurs thinking about what will be after death, but it might be an interesting element in a fanfiction (if treated with care).

[Kor]

It could be.  The one thing is since the dead can contact the living, for a while at least after they have died, they could have told some what it is like.

[aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)]

I'm moving my response on LBT religion (or lack thereof) from "Health, Sicknesses, and Injuries." I still stand by it:

I don't know, I think Petrie is acting borderline-religious in "The Great Circle Celebration", saying things like "Great Circle always watching over us, so we must say thank you," or "Is Great Circle mad at us?" Bummer was that the episode's plot didn't knock him off his high horse, but felt like Cera needed to be taught a lesson for not worshiping the Bright Circle.

I wish in this episode both Cera and Petrie had learned a lesson not to overdo it.

[Kor]

I think Cera and her dad did learn that indulging in the bright circle celebration since it is fun may be ok since it is fun.  Though they have had stuff like that before with Cera and Petrie learning a belief of his is not necessarily correct.  Like believing red treestars cause bad luck and the smoking mountain hating flyers.

[rosie]

It would be more supersitious than faith. They seem to believe a lot in good luck and bad luck. It could explain why they remove a dead sharptooth tooth.I wonder if those sharpteeth believe in luck or  they aren't advanced or too advanced.

[Kor]

Likely it is Petrie who is the main one who believes in lots of those things.  Littlefoot is open minded and Cera is the skeptic.

[Cancerian Tiger]

I see it as pure superstition caused by folklore(urban legends in the human world) and not paganism.  After all, are not many if not most superstitions stemmed from urban legends?  Besides, having been raised a Roman Catholic, I would've most likely see or heard parents furious over any such paganism in LBT, especially after LBT VII was released with Pterano worshipping the stone(equivalent to a human worshipping an idol or false god).

[Malte279]

Who can say where faith ends and superstition begins? Some superstitions are no more provable or disprovable than some rituals of the established religions. Sometimes it seems the main difference is that more people would admit to  adhere the established religions while many (without admitting it) hold some superstitious believes as well (e.g. knocking on wood, having talismans etc.).
Sometimes pagan traditions have been adopted by Christianity when those traditions were to strong to be just abandoned (I didn't read about the easter bunny in the bible and not about the Christmas tree either).

[Amaranthine]

Oops, wrong topic.

[Kor]

They've not gone into belief systems to much in the lbt world.  There are some beliefs and superstitions, which one can say superstitions are a belief or part of one's belief system.  At least some belief in magic and wish granting, the circle of life has been mentioned, among some other things here and there.

[jedi472]

Religion in LBT is pretty hard to come by, with it being mostly a children's series. The creators of the series probably took steps to avoid this very topic to prevent controversy. Still, Littlefoot's mother does appear as a ghost or spirit, signifying that she did end up in an afterlife. Other than that, there is not much focus on anything supernatural in LBT, much less the afterlife.

As a sidenote, I just wanted to say that, despite preconceptions, there really are very few people who believe one would suffer punishment in the afterlife if one did not believe in that person's particular faith. I believe the processes of final judgement in religion is based solely on the individual's actions, intentions, and character.

[Malte279]

There are many detailed and interesting threads on our personal views on religion in the AM section. I suppose we should keep this thread limited to the question of what religious or spiritual elements we do find in the land before time.
The cloud image in the original movie is the strongest element in that direction. While one might claim for it to be primarily Littlefoot's memory or a trick his mind played about a cloud and his reflection on the water on a treestar (same as with his own shadow) I don't think that this interpretation really lives up to the meaning in the movie. That cloud image takes a very direct and active role in the story (literally leading Littlefoot to the Valley on the last bit of the way), and this vision on the treestar seems to remind him of the way which he had forgotten. In my opinion the movie promotes the image of a lasting bond between Littlefoot and his mother after her death and I consider it kind of a pity that there is nothing of that sort at all in the later movies anymore (just the mention in the song always there and the cloud image in LBT 9. Cloud images have been used in excess in LBT 10 pretty much demystifying them as not much more than an effect which the makers found funny in the context of that movie).
If there is such a lasting bond between Littlefoot and his mother, I wonder though if there is anything similar for other characters of whose parents where- and howabouts we have no idea.
My own view on the lasting bond between Littlefoot and his mother changed somewhat over time. In my two earlier stories I had her give rather direct advice or encouragement to Littlefoot which, in retrospect, I think was too much of a good thing. There is a passage in "Old Threehorns" which I think describes my current interpretation quite well:

They ran on across the field towards the rocky walls, past the entrance and up the narrow path that led up to the tunnel. They traversed the tunnel and then they saw Littlefoot. He sat on the ledge and gazed over the Mysterious Beyond but when they approached him he turned his head and smiled at them. He looked a bit absent minded. “Hello! Good morning!”
Cera saw with a grim satisfaction that Littlefoot too was besmeared all over with dried mud, but it didn’t lessen her fury: “Confound it Littlefoot! There was nothing good at this morning! We spent the whole morning looking for you! We were already worried and I guess so were your grandparents. What on earth have you thought by just vanishing without leaving a word?” Littlefoot had listened to Cera’s tirade calmly; the smile had disappeared from his face and he said remorseful: “I’m really sorry but...”
“And you should be! This is really a bad form just to vanish and...”
“That is enough! Calm down Cera!” said Ducky who was also angry about Littlefoot’s disappearance but was not as unforgiving as Cera and didn’t want the matter to become a more serious quarrel. “Let him speak! Why have you gone here Littlefoot?”
“Morning light”, said Littlefoot quietly. “Morning light!” roared Cera and looked at the sun that stood already too high to be still called morning light. “You want to tell us that that... oh.” Cera stopped abruptly and suddenly it was her who looked remorseful. And also Ducky, Spike and Petrie looked a bit embarrassed suddenly. They all remembered something Littlefoot had told them about what his mother had once said him: “You know I’ll never leave you. You can find me anywhere. The morning light the evening star.”* And the way Littlefoot had pronounced the simple word “morning light” made it certain that he was referring to this words of his mother and that these words were more than just words.
“Well, I... didn’t mean to...”, stammered Cera but Littlefoot shook his head. “It was my fault. I should have gone back earlier.”
“Maybe you should have told us when you went here”, said Cera carefully. “I went here very early. Even my grandparents were still sleeping and I didn’t want to awake you so early. And moreover...”, said Littlefoot a bit quieter. “I hope you don’t mind; I wanted to go alone.” “Yes, of course”, said Cera nodding. “Uhm, are we disturbing right now? Shall we go again? Shall we?” asked Ducky considerately. “No, please stay. I don’t hear her anymore anyway. Already for quite a while, but I hoped I would hear her again.” “Your mother?” asked Ducky quietly and Littlefoot nodded silently. “You can hear her? What did she say?” asked Cera and a short moment later she added: “Or don’t you want to talk about it?” “It is not as if she would speak and say do this or do that. It’s more that I feel her presence the same way I felt it during our journey to the Great Valley.” Littlefoot fetched deep breath. “Since then I felt it only very rarely and whenever I felt it something important happened shortly after. Good things sometimes and sometimes bad.”
“You believe something will happen, Littlefoot?” asked Petrie. Littlefoot smiled helpless and shrugged: “Maybe; at all events it has always been the case after I felt my mother so far.” Ducky had climbed from Spike’s back approached Cera and touched her shoulder slightly: “Cera?”
“Yes?”
“Do you ever hear or feel your mother like that?”

Anyway, I may be getting a bit off topic.
The myths and legends of the dinosaurs, e.g. the legend of the lone dinosaur, the story about the longnecks saving the world during the solar eclipse, and also the story from the TV series episode about the story speakers may be interpreted in a spiritual manner. Even with such a spiritual interpretation though there is very little similarity to the established and more prescriptive religious institutions which men (in rarer cases women who tend to be put in an inferior position by most menmade religions which is something we don't find in LBT) have built up.

[Serris]

I would say the religion in LBT is probably similar to Neolithic religion in Humans. Or it could be a form of paganism.

[Bruton the Iguanodon]

I noticed Grandma has a line near the end of 5..."We must have faith. The children will find us somehow." Couldn't she have just said, "We musn't give up hope"? Hmm.

[jansenov]

^How is that any different? "Hope" is also an abstract concept, not related to direct experience, just like "faith".

I think Serris is on the right track here. There definitely is belief in the supernatural among LBT dinosaurs, but it doesn't have much in common with popular religions of today. There is a belief in spirits, the afterlife, there are legendary characters and ontological myths (telling of how things came about).The LBT dinosaurs have lifestyles similar to foraging societies, and these beliefs also remind of such societies.

However, what I think is interesting is that the beliefs are in a state of transition. For example, Grandpa and Gradma Longneck don't really believe in the stories they tell, meaning that the longneck myths are becoming a relic of the past. However, the belief in the circle of life still seems to be going strong. So, perhaps the longnecks are abandoning notions of concrete heroes and concrete important events in the past, and accepting an eternal world which constantly repeats itself, with nothing outstanding about it that is worth remembering from cycle to cycle. A transition from a linear view of history to a cyclical one.

There are also sceptical individuals like Cera, who appear not to believe in anything supernatural at all.