The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => 1988 Theatrical Release => Topic started by: WeirdRaptor on October 30, 2009, 07:48:57 PM
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...Looking back on the film, if there was anything you could change at all about it, what would it be? Now, I'm not saying that anything absolutely needed to be changed, but I figure this might be an interesting diversion for a while.
Me, personally. Well, considering that most children's films are about an hour and a half, and this film was barely over one hour (about one hour and five minutes, less than one hour if you exclude the closing credits), I'd say this could easily have stodd to have about twenty minutes added to it without there being any remote threat of it boring the audience. A little more depth to some of the characters might have been nice. I'm not just talking reinserting old cut footage (no, this is not that discussion). Just, you know, more.
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Yeah, the length is too short because some of the footage were cut from the movie... "it was too scary for children". -.-
The longest sequel is "LBT X: The Great Longneck Migration" with a runtime of 80:49 minutes (and, by the way, it's one of the best sequels).
I agree with you, the film should have been longer.
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I find that to be utter bull, considering that most kids would have survived the horrors that were Disney's old timey classics like Fantasia and the Pleasure Island sequences of Pinocchio by the time they saw Land Before Time. Seriously, if I can survive the sequence in which a T-Rex viciously kills a stegosaurus without being utterly traumatized, then I stand a sharptooth scaring but not killing some baby dinos.
But we're getting off track. I'll allow this to be discussed, but let's keep the speculation doing.
Edit: I am of course referring to Spielberg and Lucas's reasoning, not your claim.
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I guess the only thing I'd really change is the wording at the end. It sorta closes the possibility to further sequels. Of course I'm sure they had no idea 12 other movies and 26 TV episodes would come from it. :p
And I think the animation sucks and I don't really like Gabriel Damon as the voice of Littlefoot. Not much they could have done about the animation though. I think it sucks 'cuz it looks old and crappy. It was the best they could do back then though, so I'm okay with it. Never thought the animation sucked as a kid, so I must just be used to the wonderful animation of the newer movies.
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I actually like the animation of the first movie. In many cases, I prefer it over the newer movies. It looks more detailed than what I'd see in later movies. There also seems to be far less mistakes in the animation, in comparison to the newer movies, in my opinion. As colorful as the newer movies are, I still prefer the animation style present in the first movie.
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The original animation style is meant to be dark and gritty, better representing the setting... a land before time. The character and setting being all bright and colourful would have taken away from the impact the movie was intended to have, as well as the meaning of the story.
As for what I'd change... I would have hoped for a slightly longer movie, I agree that it was a little too short.
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I know what I'd add: ALL THE STUFF they cut out of it, like whatever scene involved Ducky making faces, or the subplot mentioned in the novelization about them meeting a heard of racist longnekcs and domeheads or something like that. I'd like all of that stuff to finally see the light of day.
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I know what I'd add: ALL THE STUFF they cut out of it, like whatever scene involved Ducky making faces, or the subplot mentioned in the novelization about them meeting a heard of racist longnekcs and domeheads or something like that. I'd like all of that stuff to finally see the light of day.
I bet we'd all love that. Unfortunately, well... (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=971) :(
Anyway, if I were to change anything... I'd get it as close to Bluth's original vision as I could. That would mean getting all the deleted scenes back in (if they still existed :cry ) make it longer, and explore the characters in more depth. It'd be an LBT film I'd want to go to the cinema and see. :)
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Interesting question...most of us really like the film as is, so finding something else to add to make it better than we already enjoy it is hard to do. :p The deleted scenes probably would not have scared anyone so they should have been there from the start. If you could survive Jungle Book when Baloo gets his face scratched off you can see T-rex do the same. ;)
Really, I wouldn't change much else.
The original animation style is meant to be dark and gritty, better representing the setting... a land before time. The character and setting being all bright and colourful would have taken away from the impact the movie was intended to have, as well as the meaning of the story.
Exactly my point...its not a happy story or is it meant to be.
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I would love to see all the editted footage that was taken out of the film. I've read the original book that was released along side the movie which still has the scenes in it that were extracted from the final cut. As already said, kids could have easily sat through the additional minutes of that film and it was a poor decision to have them removed considering that the average running time of Disney movies at the time were easily 90mins. I love Don Bluth's animation style and would loved to see more of his work in a more modern day release. If anything could improved the original LBT movie for me, it would have to be getting a look at that deleted footage. A pray, one day, someone will come across it and on some random anniversary, it be there under bonus features. Maybe someday... :D
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The original animation style is meant to be dark and gritty, better representing the setting... a land before time. The character and setting being all bright and colourful would have taken away from the impact the movie was intended to have, as well as the meaning of the story.
I didn't say bright and colorful. I said I'd like it to be in modern animation style. You can make a setting dark and have a dreadful feeling nowadays just as well as you could back then. The old animation is like comparing the picture produced by a rabbit-ear TV antenna to a modern HD channel. It looks like crap. Grainy, old, and imprecise. I don't even like the animation of movies like Bambi because they look old. The newer animation styles of today look more realistic and just better altogether. Heck, even Inuyasha's animation style is looking old nowadays compared to newer anime's. Newer is almost always better. Clearly defined (but not too-noticeable) lines and a good pallet of colors are what make a good animation...which is something most older animated films lack. Bambi had some really great lines, but the range of colors was too narrow. Nowadays with computers, we can change colors so minutely that we can't even tell the difference between them!
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What was wrong with Gabriel Damon's portraler of Littlefoot? I thought he was perfect, or at least better than all the rest.
Also, how can anyone dislike older animation just because its older? That doesn't make sense. Sure, some of it may not look as good as newer stuff, but that does not makes it bad. It also can't be helped, because Bluth and co did the best they could with what the time period had to offer. Also, you say that animation now looks more realistic. Er, why are you looking for realism in a film where dinosaurs talk and the predators are vindictive enough to hunt down baby dinos for revenge over a damaged eye?
I will admit that older specials effects old films may seen cheesy and outdated now, but I wouldn't say it sucks, because didn't at the time and it sure as heck can't be helped now.
Alright, new ground rule, for this point on, keep the posts based around things that could have been feasible at the time, the 1980s. I really don't think saying you think the animation sucked and needs to be changed because its old when it couldn't have been helped at the time is fair and the discussion can't go anywhere in that direction because well...what I just said. Land Before Time was on the upper end of what animation in the 80s was like.
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Of course I like the original. I'd buy a re-make of it in a second. I just don't like the animation of it anymore. I think that if an animated movie is good enough, it should be remade every 10 years or so. I can't even watch movies 1-7 without cringing at the animation. 1-6 had the old animation style and 7 had such a cheapo animation style I'd be surprised if they paid the animators $10k for it. Movies 8-13 have decent animation (though 9 had some experimental stuff that wasn't that great). Of course in 10 years I'll be hating the animation of 8-13 too because it'll look old. I'm all for the new and the greatest. Watching LBT 1 on a computer just makes it look even worse in comparison to the clean lines and fine gradients of Windows Vista or 7. Seeing as I can only watch movies on the computer (I gave my TV to mom), I guess that's one of the reasons I can't stand the animation style of the older movies.
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I disagree. I think that films that are good enough should just simply be kept in circulation. I wouldn't have LBT any other way for the most part, even with the old animation, which I like, by the way. I just can't get into your mindset, but remakes are not the answer. They are rarely as good as the original, because there's not a snowball's change in hell that the film would be left untampered with by the moral guardians and media watchdogs. After it was handed to someone to remake, the film that we all know and love with a mere animation upgrade is not what we would get back.
this discussion if about how this film could have been made just a little different back then.
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When it comes to realism, I don't think the new movies portray that very well. When I look at the adults, like Littlefoot's mother and Cera's father, in the first movie, they do look more like adults, and seem more accurate to their real-life dinosaur counterparts.
But in later movies, I see a difference. When I look at Mr. Thicknose, I don't see an adult, I see a very large child dinosaur with an adult head. His body porportions seem more close to that of a child dinosaur like Cera than an adult. Littlefoot's grandparents and father aren't any better.
Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong, but this is what I notice anytime I look at a later movie.
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Personally I think that the older style animation did have a great charm. I also think that so do modern animation techniques if done well (e.g. the near photo-realistic water in LBT 9 fit in well in my opinion). However, the way I see it they have been messing up much more frequently and seriously with the animation in the later installments than they did in the original movies. Among other there are what I would like to label color-amok-runs like everything turning red in case of danger, deep green skies, characters turning almost black in the cold, green lava. Then there is another favorite tool in the modern animation which irritates me quite a bit namely their habit of letting the ground slide past the running characters making it look like the layer of the ground sliding past behind the running characters was not connected with those characters in any way (this one was very prominent in many of the later sequels).
Again, I do think that the modern techniques can be used very well, but I would not say that they always have been used so well in LBT that I would consider the newer animation generally superior to the old style but very carefully handled animation of the original movie.
Like most of you I too think it would have been an improvement if they had allowed for the inclusion of some more scenes and I am not convinced that the change to let Littlefoot find the Great Valley only after the defeat of the sharptooth was a wise one (I take it they wanted to shorten the movie as well as keep the big effect of the Great Valley for the final end, but I still think the original script would have made more sense). There are a couple of questions left open by the original movie which might have been addressed if they had made the movie a little longer and then there are also some questions (in particular about the Great Valley and the characters knowing about it) which perhaps were left unanswered for good reason.
In a different thread I expressed my conviction that there may be some substance to the rumors of an earlier script (definitely NOT the movie as we know it) of LBT suggesting the Great Valley to be a dinosaur heaven and the characters getting there only after their death. Such a change would have been extremely emotional but dead sad as well (apart from taking away the basis for any sequels).
There are also some suggestions that earlier scripts had LBT in general to be somewhat darker (the racism bit for example being not limited mostly to Cera among the five main characters). I am not sure a more sinister setting would have been an improvement, but I would be curious to see how it would have worked out.
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Well, Malte, in all fairness, you can delve deeper into an issue and make the world more intense without outright making the setting more sinister (though I would love to see how on earth you'd accomplish that. Barren wasteland, and death and destruction all around as the film is).
Although Don Bluth thinks that Spielberg and Lucas may have been right, I'm not so sure. As stated, the Disney company had made films that far surpassed Land Before Time and Don Bluth in how dark it got without generations of kids growing up into total maniacs. I call up Fantasia as my reference.
One thing I just thoght of. The grandparents don't talk in this film. That always kind of disappointed me. All they do is chuckle a couple of times while leaving momma Longneck to do all the work.
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I'd add the deleted scenes, put the existing scenes, if any were rearranged, back into their original order. Try to make sure the movie was around 90 minutes. Also I would change it so Spike does not grow in size but remains the same size for the whole movie,and no sharpteeth that can fall a long distance and just be knocked out nor the super leaps.
Maybe for the kids to have some fastbiters appear. & make sure the various dinos look more like the type they are supposed to be. As well as writing it so all ages can enjoy it, kids, teens, adults, are get as close to having something for various age groups as I could.
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As for the sinister bit I was mainly referring to an increasing of the racism bit and the idea of the Great Valley as a heaven which the characters reached but only after their death. This later thing, interesting though it might be would be very sinister indeed and I guess a bit too sinister for my taste. It would also have the disadvantage about making sequels rather impossible.
I do agree with you WR that the story could have been more deeper without being more sinister. I think that there could have well been scenes that would have come across as more sinister as well as some that would have been lighthearted.
The later might have been a chance to include Littlefoot's grandparents a bit more. For example it would have been a cute scene if they had included the scene which I found in one book (a book though which I think is not based on some earlier script of any sort) in which Littlefoot's grandpa enchanted by his grandson's cuteness sets his foot besides Littlefoot's pointing out that one of his toes is larger than Littlefoot's entire foot thereby earning him the name.
There are also scenes which could have been dark and hopeful at the same time. For example the Oasis scene which on the one hand would have shown a spread of racism that went further than it did in the movie as we know it, but that on the other hand could have been presented as an important lesson for Cera who would have had a chance to see the insanity of the whole racism from a different perspective. It could have been a very powerful scene.
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I thought that oasis scene from the book was a very good scene that really could have shown some major character development. Granted racism is always a touchy subject but the way it was portrayed in the book would have been the right outset for the gang to develop a much deeper sense of compassion and trust within each other. A shame that it was removed really.
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well I liked the movie but I really wanted the deleted scenes added and probably something explaining littlefoots father.
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i would have wanted the deleted scenes added and maybe some additional scenes to add more character development and conflict . i'd also would have liked it if they had rearranged parts of the film so that littlefoot finds the great valley first before going back to find his friends.
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Has anyone ever liked the idea of the Great Valley being heaven and that everyone dies at the end?
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I don't particularly like the idea (especially not as it would have made the sequels pretty much impossible), but I consider it more likely than not that at some point this concept may have been in the minds of the makers of LBT.
Death has never been much of a taboo topic in kids movies (there are quite a few with at least one important character dying) and the movie "All dogs go to heaven" had even made the killing off of a main protagonist a possibility.
Ignoring everything that was said in the sequels we never got to see a single character in the original movie who had seen the Valley with the eyes rather than the heart and with the introduction which pretty much paints the picture of a world no longer supporting the dinosaurs and with the general awareness of dinosaurs being extinct I think there are some points to suggest a likelihood of that claim being more than a mere rumor. It would have made a very different and much darker story that would have been ill suited for sequels. Though I think some of the later sequels in particular would have benefited from a bit more darkness I do not like the idea of LBT turning quite as dark as suggested by that Great Valley = Haven concept.
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Hmm. Maybe. I'm still of the mind that Great Valley=Heaven is not the idea that Bluth and co ultimately went with, though. I think that the Valley is a physical place within the living world of LBT. Otherwise the ending narration "and they all grew up together in the valley. Each telling the story from one generation to the next of their journey to the valley...long ago" makes absolutely no sense if that were the case and I've never heard anything about the ending being part of what Spielberg and Lucas had a problem with.
While I agree that death is not a taboo thing in children's films (good lord do we all know that!), All Dogs Go to Heaven had an entirely different theme than Land Before Time, in that LBT was essential about overcoming differences and working together for a better future and All Dogs was specifically about redemption and the hereafter.
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Hmm. Maybe. I'm still of the mind that Great Valley=Heaven is not the idea that Bluth and co ultimately went with, though.
I do not contradict you there. They did not ultimately go with that idea and the original movie clearly shows the Great Valley as a real and tangible place which Littlefoot and the others reach quite alive.
But to me it looks like there may be substance to the claims that they did play around with the thought of making the Great Valley a dinosaur heaven but then decided against it.
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Hmm. You might onto something, Malte, now that I think of it, and I think I may have an idea where it led.
I wonder if that Bluth and co did explore the concept of the hereafter during Land Before Time's production, but decided against it. It would actually sense for the idea to have been considered because that may have been the roots of the ideas that became All Dogs. Man, I wish Bluth interviews were greater in number and easier to find so this could be confirmed.
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Has anyone ever liked the idea of the Great Valley being heaven and that everyone dies at the end?
I could seriously consider it for an alternative ending,( and one that would be considerable darker than the original), I would also would have considered another alternative ending, such as a bittersweet ending (not without sacrifices, for instance where petrie ( and I've got nothing against petrie here) appears to have died when he was dragged down with the sharptooth)
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i would have wanted the deleted scenes added and maybe some additional scenes to add more character development and conflict . i'd also would have liked it if they had rearranged parts of the film so that littlefoot finds the great valley first before going back to find his friends.
actually they did that but they changed it. I heard when littlefoot separates from the gang after he fought with Cera, he finds the Great Valley and he returns to tell the others and he finds them in trouble. I heard this in a article a a long time ago on the internet but I can find the site anymore. :(
I dont know if it was a deleted scene or one of the story idea before making the film.
I dont like the idea of the Great Vally being heaven and all the dinosaurs dying. It wouldnt make sense. Littlefoots mother came as a spirit and showed the gang to the great valley. if it was heaven wouldnt they show Littlesoot more more alive looking like the others???? I think the deleted scene "Now we will always be together" means that they will be together in the valley. they became best friends so they will never be inseperable. "Well thats what they think" its like the Fox and the Hound when Tod tells Copper they will always be best friends forever.
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Nothing really else to add on top of what everyone else has mentioned but I'll just mention... I'd quite like a change in the length of the movie to that of a longer story perhaps either .adding the delete scenes..or/and extending characterization of the characters because whilst I love all the characters from the first movie..you don't really know much about them with the exception of Littlefoot and maybe Cera.
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I don't like the idea of Littlefoot and the gang dying either. It just leaves for a really sad and empty ending(Even though the actual ending is just that). And if the Great Valley is Dino Heaven, then where is Littlefoot's Mom? Where is Cera's mom and her sisters? Where are Spike's parents? Is there like a Dino Hell and the parents and siblings were sent there for some odd reason? I'll just take Don Bluth's word for it that that was never the intended ending.
Anyway, I would definately like the movie to be longer. Maybe witness more of the perils that the kids face on their journey. The deleted scenes I would definately enjoy. Also an explanation on some things: 1)How Ducky, Petrie, and Spike were seperated from their parents. 2)How Littlefoot's mom knows of the Great Valley if she's never been there. I guess Grandma or Grandpa Longneck could have told her at some point or she may have learned of it from another Longneck. She could have even visited the Valley when she was very young and just doesn't remember it too well. And finally, I'd like to see some character developement for Petrie. Like when did he hatch? How did he get seperated from his mom and siblings? And maybe even what happened to his dad.
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I'll just take Don Bluth's word for it that that was never the intended ending.
Did he say so?
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Given all the concrete evidence against the 'everyone is frikkin dead' ending, he may as well have.
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I cannot repeat often enough that I am well aware that the existing ending does NOT suggest any of the Gang died or the Great Valley being anything but a real place which one could see with the eyes just as well as with the heart if the eyes happened to be in the vicinity.
It also is quite clear that if there was an alternative concept it must have been abandoned relatively quickly (just think of the original plot of Littlefoot leading the others to the Great Valley after he found it but decided not to enter without them. If the Great Valley had at that time still been interpreted as a dinosaur heaven that would be kind of... morbid?). For the same reason all we do see in the movie (absence of characters like Littlefoot's mother (though one could point out that of all possibilities it was her ghost leading him on the last steps)) is definitely on the assumption of the Great Valley being a very real place.
I cannot stress it often enough, in the movie as we know it the Great Valley is NOT a dinosaur heaven and none of the characters did die. All that I consider quite possible is that at an early planning stage there may well have been such a concept in the minds of the movie makers, a concept though that was quickly abandoned. Still some of the elements of that concept may have made it into the movie because "Some things you see with your eyes, others you see with your heart" of course sounds a lot better than "Grandpa told me" ;)
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who told made up the rumor that the Great Valley is heaven anyway???????????? :confused
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Well said, Malte. If the idea that the Great Valley was dino heaven was ever planned, it was obviously decided against. Though I think that if it had been considered at one point, it might have been what lead Bluth and co. to make All Dogs to Go Heaven. ANy thoughts of that, anyone?
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Who knows what could've inspired All Dogs. :p Maybe Bluth visited a mueseum or researched some native culture which considers spirits among animals, and well, the thought of if animals go to heaven when they die or is this just a human phenomina? I don't think the Great Valley could inspire All Dogs...these are waaaaaaaay different films here.
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Perhaps, but keep in mind that "inspired" does not equate to "directly based on". After something has sparked an idea, said concept will go through countless rewrites and charges before the finished product comes to be.
For example, remember that animated series titled Gargoyles http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108783/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108783/) ? Its biggest inspiration was this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088528/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088528/)
You could list the similarities between the two with one hand, and if you wanted to list the differences you'd need to mutate and grow several more arms in order to get enough fingers.
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I would have loved to see the deleted scenes in the movie or as an extra on the dvd. It is too bad they got rid of them.
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It's missing nothing, except the cut scenes. Even the animation is much more advanced in this, every spec of dust is there but not in much newer sequels?
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Well, I think just about every whose going to speak up has had their say in what they might have changed about the original.
Here's an idea, since its always such a sad thing to see a discussion, let's go ahead and apply this subject matter to the sequels. What would everyone change about the sequels, or certain sequels, or one certain sequel?
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Actually, there were a few things I wanted to say (I hadn't gotten around to sharing them beforehand because they were incredibly difficult to word):
Firstly, although I do think that the rearranging of scenes in the final cut of the movie was a little awkward, and in some respects makes less sense than Bluth’s original concept, I think I like the film better with the big unveiling of the Great Valley taking place at the very end, as opposed to right after the gang splits up. Obviously, I’ve never seen the ending as it was originally intended, but I’d expect that the conclusion would have felt less momentous, with the Great Valley having already been revealed.
Still, I think it would be great if a “director’s cut” version of the film were released, with deleted scenes and perhaps even the original ending restored. Sad to say, it’ll probably never happen. :cry
P.S. I’m no admin, but I think that a discussion of the sequels should be created as a new topic in the “General Land Before Time” forum.
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Alright, I'll make a new post about this on the General Land Before Time board, then.
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Well, with finnish voiceacting this film is the definition of perfect. Some of the original voices are much worse, especially Petrie sounds somewhat annoying with broken english. So, the only bad thing really is those 19 outcut scenes.
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That would seem to be the universal opinion. Sad. All of LBT's older fans want to see what was excluded from the film, but the production left such a sour taste in everyone's mouth that hell will probably freeze over before Bluth or Spielberg or Lucas ever touch it again.
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My opinion: The animation blows the doors off the sequels.. :p
But if i had to change one thing, it's the fight between Littlefoot and Cera.
"Who says?"
"My Mother!"
"Then she was a stupid longneck too."
That is an awfull thing to say, and i think it's probably the most stupid part of the movie having Cera win the fight after what she said. If i could change anything in the movie, it would be that fight scene. Littlefoot should have won, i dont care if Cera's actually stronger or not. The only good that came from her winning the fight was she went the wrong way and Littlefoot was right, but still! come on! :anger
Other then that, we wants the outcut scenes!
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I personally don't really see the problem with Cera winning. It wouldn't make much sense for Littlefoot to win. He is not as experienced as Cera. And besides, he was the one who initiated the fight in the first place. Cera wasn't looking for a fight; she only fought back when Littlefoot lost his temper and attacked her. And I think it's possible that Cera didn't really mean what she said, but was too stubborn to admit it and take it back.
Littlefoot starting the fight and then losing it would have taught him a good lesson: never start fights. As I said before, Littlefoot was the one who attacked Cera; all Cera was trying to do was leave. And the fight does show a bit of Cera's darker side, which makes the ending where she saves them more powerful. If she had lost, then this scene wouldn't have had as much of an impact, in my opinion. Plus, if Littlefoot won, then it would have taught him a not-so-good lesson: if you want someone to do something, beat them up.
Even if Littlefoot did win, what difference would it make? It would probably have led to the same result: Littlefoot still being mad and leaving, Cera going off in the wrong way with the others following her. If the whole point of wanting Littlefoot to win is simply for the satisfaction of making Cera pay for what she said, then I don't see the point or benefit from it. No offense intended.
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I personally don't really see the problem with Cera winning. It wouldn't make much sense for Littlefoot to win. He is not as experienced as Cera. And besides, he was the one who initiated the fight in the first place. Cera wasn't looking for a fight; she only fought back when Littlefoot lost his temper and attacked her. And I think it's possible that Cera didn't really mean what she said, but was too stubborn to admit it and take it back.
Littlefoot starting the fight and then losing it would have taught him a good lesson: never start fights. As I said before, Littlefoot was the one who attacked Cera; all Cera was trying to do was leave. And the fight does show a bit of Cera's darker side, which makes the ending where she saves them more powerful. If she had lost, then this scene wouldn't have had as much of an impact, in my opinion. Plus, if Littlefoot won, then it would have taught him a not-so-good lesson: if you want someone to do something, beat them up.
Even if Littlefoot did win, what difference would it make? It would probably have led to the same result: Littlefoot still being mad and leaving, Cera going off in the wrong way with the others following her. If the whole point of wanting Littlefoot to win is simply for the satisfaction of making Cera pay for what she said, then I don't see the point or benefit from it. No offense intended.
I could not have said it any better :exactly. Indeed, Littlefoot was the one who started the fight and attacked Cera. I think this also reflects Littlefoot's darker side by showing that he is not always so compassionate and caring. Littlefoot can be very stubborn at times, and this fight exposed a common childhood flaw in Littlefoot's character: throwing a temper when ya don't get your way <_<. He also acted cowardly by beating up on a female (even though she's a tomboy, she's still a girl) who is smaller than him. Littlefoot handled the insult in a very immature fashion. He should've remained calm and talked to Cera about the situation and why she said what she said. I'm sure that would've calmed Cera down from whatever was causing her agitation, but rather than try to talk with Cera about why she felt that way and if she had any suggestions for how to find the Great Valley, he flipped. He had been trying to be friends with her prior to the fight, and last time I checked, beating the crap out of others to get your way is not a way of making friends :anger. Cera really was trying to walk away before the fight would escalate, but Littlefoot ignored her wishes and basically cornered her and got up in her face while raising his voice. I'm surprised Cera did not attack first out of self-defense. In my opinion, he was acting like an immature coward and he deserved to lose that fight.
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I see the points of both sides and disagree with some from both sides. It is important to realize that by offending Littlefoot's mother (and that after everything that had happened including Cera's own rescue by Littlefoot's mother) Cera sort of committed the one thing that Littlefoot really couldn't forgive at that moment. He had been very patient and friendly towards her in spite of being turned back so often. He had even spared Cera's feelings in moments when he could have really gloated over her (like when he showered her with leaves and left her with the illusion that it had been her own doing and also accepting her without any comment when she joined him and the others in the sharptooth's footprint). His mother was really the most sacret thing for Littlefoot and even after Cera had abused her he twice told her to take back the offense before he actually charged her. I do understand why in this situation Littlefoot gave up on trying to have a pedagogic talk with Cera that (for all he had learned about Cera) was unlikely to have met anything but deaf ears.
I do not agree that for his lack of composure in that situation he deserved to be labeled an immature coward.
On Cera's side we do have an extreme lack of sensitivity. I do not believe that before she said it or in the minutes after it it ever even occured to her to think about just how much Littlefoot's mother meant to him. I would even go so far as to assume that even that late in the movie she was still thinking in terms of threehorns and "those other ones" not fully crediting the later with the same degree of sense and mind (which in case of the threehorns seems to be generally somewhat less focused on dealing with emotion).
In spite of this I would not want to see the outcome of that fight changed. The scenario is interesting, but also very awkward or possibly dangerous. Cera's "goal" in the fight was just to win and after it was obvious she had won the fight was over for her.
Littlefoot's goal was to have Cera take back the abuse of his mother. In that situation however, with Cera being as aggitated and stubborn as she was she probably would have rather bit off her tongue than taking anything back. Now imagine Littlefoot having somehow brought down a Cera who stubbornly refused to take back anything. What next? Would we see Littlefoot kicking a Cera lying on the ground? How far would he go (not as far as to cause her any permanent harm I presume)? But with such an outcome not only the more forgiving Littlefoot would have been deeply hurt but also Cera who might be much less capable of coping with the humiliation of being defeated by the "flathead" than Littlefoot was with forgiving Cera's offense of his mother. A different outcome of the fight would have created a very difficult situation indeed and I doubt that there could have been a credible solution to that one (though one must admit that there never really is an "official" solution to the fight as it is, for we never ever hear Cera officially express regret over her ultimate offense to Littlefoot).
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^^ Well...In Littlefoot's defense, Cera HAD just insulted his mother, who had essentially sacrificed herself protecting them both from Sharptooth.
I don't blame either of them, really. They'd spent days journeying long and far over rough terrain, with little to eat or drink, searching for a place they weren’t entirely sure existed. On top of that they're just kids. After climbing a mountain expecting to find the Great Valley at the top, and encountering nothing but a barren gorge, it’s no surprise tempers were set to flare. Undoubtedly it was the exasperation resulting from that disappointment that caused Cera to lose it. I’m sure she was far more grateful to Littlefoot’s mother than she let on in that scene, but was so frustrated at that point with Littlefoot (and his insistence to continue following him, despite the fact thatófrom Cera’s perspectiveóhis leadership was proving fruitless) that she snapped at him. Given the heat of the moment, I don’t think either of them could have simply calmed down and discussed the situation.
There is also the fact that Littlefoot’s leadership was based largely on the fact that he was the one with the directions to the Great Valley, which he had received secondhand from his mother; it could be argued that Cera was justifying her abandonment of the group by discrediting the source of those instructions, which backfired on her because in doing so she touched on a very sensitive subject for Littlefoot. I’m not surprised he reacted the way he did.
As for what Kacie said, I couldn’t agree more. :yes
EDIT: Whoops! Darn I'm slow! I started writing this before Malte even posted! :blink:
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I failed to mention the crucial points leading to Cera's frustration that caused her to say what she said. It does not change my view about the outcome of the fight though.
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I couldn't put it any better.
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Tiger, you are both being very unfair to Littlefoot. You have to remember that he was just a little kid who had been barely holding it together psychologically shortly after a traumatic death of a loved one.
If anyone ever talked about my own diseased brother like that, I'd do the exact same thing. Only I think I'd probably lose it even more than our long necked hero.
You are expecting adult behavior from a traumatized child. By the way, I distinctly remember Littlefoot walking away from the fight at the end and Cera ramming him from behind. Still siding with her?
Cera insulted his DEAD mother who he watched die right in front of him. How about Littlefoot's feelings instead of siding with the one who started the fight by being a jerk to someone who had been very patient with her up to that point. You gotta look at it from more than one perspective.
Also, dinosaurs probably don't have the same boy shouldn't hit girls rules that we do. In all of the original and the sequels, I don't recall a 'don't hit girls' rule mentioned. So let's take that out of the equation.
Yes, Littlefoot lost his temper, but they were both under a lot of stress and his mother was a sensative topic to him. Sure, we can say "he should have remained calm" all we want, but none of us (I doubt) have been put into such a situation.
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I personally don't really see the problem with Cera winning. It wouldn't make much sense for Littlefoot to win. He is not as experienced as Cera. And besides, he was the one who initiated the fight in the first place. Cera wasn't looking for a fight; she only fought back when Littlefoot lost his temper and attacked her. And I think it's possible that Cera didn't really mean what she said, but was too stubborn to admit it and take it back.
Littlefoot starting the fight and then losing it would have taught him a good lesson: never start fights. As I said before, Littlefoot was the one who attacked Cera; all Cera was trying to do was leave. And the fight does show a bit of Cera's darker side, which makes the ending where she saves them more powerful. If she had lost, then this scene wouldn't have had as much of an impact, in my opinion. Plus, if Littlefoot won, then it would have taught him a not-so-good lesson: if you want someone to do something, beat them up.
Even if Littlefoot did win, what difference would it make? It would probably have led to the same result: Littlefoot still being mad and leaving, Cera going off in the wrong way with the others following her. If the whole point of wanting Littlefoot to win is simply for the satisfaction of making Cera pay for what she said, then I don't see the point or benefit from it. No offense intended.
I could not have said it any better :exactly. Indeed, Littlefoot was the one who started the fight and attacked Cera. I think this also reflects Littlefoot's darker side by showing that he is not always so compassionate and caring. Littlefoot can be very stubborn at times, and this fight exposed a common childhood flaw in Littlefoot's character: throwing a temper when ya don't get your way <_<. He also acted cowardly by beating up on a female (even though she's a tomboy, she's still a girl) who is smaller than him. Littlefoot handled the insult in a very immature fashion. He should've remained calm and talked to Cera about the situation and why she said what she said. I'm sure that would've calmed Cera down from whatever was causing her agitation, but rather than try to talk with Cera about why she felt that way and if she had any suggestions for how to find the Great Valley, he flipped. He had been trying to be friends with her prior to the fight, and last time I checked, beating the crap out of others to get your way is not a way of making friends :anger. Cera really was trying to walk away before the fight would escalate, but Littlefoot ignored her wishes and basically cornered her and got up in her face while raising his voice. I'm surprised Cera did not attack first out of self-defense. In my opinion, he was acting like an immature coward and he deserved to lose that fight.
There's just so much wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to start. So let me see if I got this right: It's okay for Cera to insult Littlefoot's mother, who, as WeirdRaptor pointed out, DIED right in front of him! But when Littlefoot attacks Cera for her incredibly cruel comment(Calling his own deceased mother stupid) then he's a coward? I can tell you that if my own mother had died and someone called her stupid, I'd react very similiar to how Littlefoot did. He had every right to stand up for his mother! He was an emotionally traumatized little kid who watched his mom die right before his eyes! Then someone comes along and says "Well she was a stupid Longneck too!" You expect Littlefoot to just sit down and talk about it with her?! HA!
WeirdRaptor brought up another good point: Littlefoot tried to end the fight. He tried to walk away but of course Cera has to get the final hit in when all Littlefoot was trying to do was walk away. And then near the end of the movie, Littlefoot actually welcomes her back with open arms(Err...paws). If I were Littlefoot, I probably wouldn't have been so quick to accept her back. In fact, she should have been very damn grateful that he was so willing to put up with all the abuse she gave him. CERA was the immature one, not Littlefoot.
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I think both of them were at fault. I was not justifying Cera's comment about Littlefoot's mother. In my comment I was simply stating that Littlefoot started the fight, not Cera. I also feel that both had acted pretty immaturely. While I'm not blaming Littlefoot for snapping, I agree with CT that his reaction was still immature. Cera's immaturity comes from her making an insult without thinking about it and not taking it back as well as making a final attack that wasn't necessary.
All in all, I'd say neither of them can take the full blame for the fight, but neither are completely innocent either. They both made mistakes that caused the fight to escalate and resolve to how it did in the movie. I don't think it's fair to pin the whole rap on Cera when it was Littlefoot who made the first move, and I don't think it's fair to blame it entirely on Littlefoot since Cera had touched a sensitive topic.
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Words can still inflict a great deal of pain on another person and words can also be another form of attacking. It was Cera who delivered the first blow: By calling Littlefoot's Mother a Stupid Longneck. Think about it, you would do the same if someone called your mother a stupid longneck(Well, not really a stupid longneck, but.. you know what i mean :p ) I know i would have the same reaction as Littlefoot.. Besides, he didn't attack Cera right away. He told her to take it back twice. And the last blow Cera did was really uncalled for. On another note, Littlefoot was probably defending his Mother. Bad enough we never hear her say "Im Sorry" once. She might have, but it might not have shown it but if she did they should have shown it and she doesn't seem the type to say im sorry that easily.
As for the End of the Movie, im a bit surprised at that too. Sure at the end of the movie they might have become friends but i dont see how in the first movie they would become best of friends. Specially after that..
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I had felt the pain of words before but no more. I like to see how well people use them instead to try me on.
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While I agree that Littlefoot isn't completely blameless for how it turned out, I'm a whole lot more forgiving to his side of the argument. Words can be very powerful, which is why the saying "the pen is mightier than the sword" exists. I agree with the sentiment that words can be another form of attack, and any small child would take the bait, especially a traumatized one who is just holding it together. While one can say Littlefoot also could have used words, you have to remember they would fallen on deaf ears and a sensative spot had just been hit.
Also, to whoever made the comment about "Cera was tired of following someone whose methods were proving fruitkess". I take it I'm supposed to be sympathetic to Cera just because the trip was long? The gang knew it was going to be a long journey.
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Also, to whoever made the comment about "Cedra was tired of following someone whose methods were proving fruiting". I take it I'm supposed to sympathetic to Cera just because the trip was long? The gang knew it was going to be a long journey.
*ahem* That was me, and with all due respect, I believe you misunderstood my point. I was not appealing for sympathy for Cera, but attempting to explain the emotional circumstances that led her to make that comment about Littlefoot's mother.
Look at the situation from Cera’s perspective: She is following an individual she barely knows, of species she has been taught not to associate with, to a place she has never heard of, following directions that were given to him by someone else, in the hopes of finding her family again. It doesn’t sound very promising, but it’s better than aimlessly wandering a wasteland stalked by Sharptooth. After enduring an escalating series of hardships, however, the prospect of continuing to follow this leader becomes considerably less appealing. Eventually, she decides that she’s had enough, and wants to leave to find her own way, but when she attempts to do so, he gets in her way and tries to stop her. In her position, wouldn’t you be angry, too?
Cera’s comment may have been much more personally hurtful, but from her point of view, Littlefoot was being overly pushy in trying to keep her from leaving the group, with his only argument being that his mother told him to go the way he was leading them. Cera already has a contemptuous opinion of longnecks in general, and for all we know, she isn’t even aware that Littlefoot’s mother is dead. (She saw her being wounded, but that does not equate to knowing that she died.)
I do not deny that Cera’s comment towards Littlefoot’s mother was insensitive, to say the least, but I don’t think she should be vilified for making it either. I reiterate my previous assertion that I do not blame either Littlefoot or Cera for behaving the way they did.
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I don't agree with some of your points.
Cera had heard of the Great Valley. If she hadn't, then Littlefoot told her about it offscreen because I don't recall her ever asking about it or having to be told about it. After all, her dad was heading there, too. He probably would have told her where they were going as well as the trip being long and dangerous from the beginning.
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Look at the situation from Cera’s perspective: She is following an individual she barely knows, of species she has been taught not to associate with, to a place she has never heard of, following directions that were given to him by someone else, in the hopes of finding her family again. It doesn’t sound very promising, but it’s better than aimlessly wandering a wasteland stalked by Sharptooth. After enduring an escalating series of hardships, however, the prospect of continuing to follow this leader becomes considerably less appealing. Eventually, she decides that she’s had enough, and wants to leave to find her own way, but when she attempts to do so, he gets in her way and tries to stop her. In her position, wouldn’t you be angry, too?
Cera’s comment may have been much more personally hurtful, but from her point of view, Littlefoot was being overly pushy in trying to keep her from leaving the group, with his only argument being that his mother told him to go the way he was leading them. Cera already has a contemptuous opinion of longnecks in general, and for all we know, she isn’t even aware that Littlefoot’s mother is dead. (She saw her being wounded, but that does not equate to knowing that she died.)
I do not deny that Cera’s comment towards Littlefoot’s mother was insensitive, to say the least, but I don’t think she should be vilified for making it either. I reiterate my previous assertion that I do not blame either Littlefoot or Cera for behaving the way they did.
Yes, I agree as well. I also don't think Cera knew Littlefoot's mother was dead. Using the past term "was" does not equate to someone who has deceased. There's nothing to suggest Littlefoot told Cera anything. We only know he told Ducky about the treestar his mom gave him and that's it.
Littlefoot and Cera are both just children and are vulnerable to flaws exhibited by children, such as tempter tantrums. Combine that with wandering through a barren landscape that's probably hot by day, cold by night, rarely eating or getting anything to drink, climbing up immense obstacles, being stalked by a predator.. they were bound to snap sooner or later I'd think.
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Honestly, I think that assuming that Cera was totaly unaware of Littlefoot's mother's fate because we never actually see a scene in which Littlefoot laid this out to her (she had after all at least seen the wounding of his mother) is really stretching what is likely and plausible quite a bit.
I think this discussion has become rather emotionally charged with both Littlefoot and Cera being to some degree forcibly put into positive light depending on what people think.
The original trigger though was weather or not the outcome of the fight should have been different. One can understand (though not necessarily approve of) the actions of both characters for different reasons.
Little has been written so far about the question of the might have beens if the fight had turned out differently.
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That's true Malte. I've been thinking, if Littlefoot had taken the upper hand, would he even have had the heart to strike a finishing blow?
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Please forgive me if I created any hard feelings. I didn’t intend to. :( (Did what I said at the beginning of my last post come off as rude? I’m sorry. :oops)
I do not wish to disrupt (or at least distract from) this topic any more than I already have, but I would like to address the last comments relating to my posts before I abandon the subject (if that is what is desired).
Cera had heard of the Great Valley. If she hadn't, then Littlefoot told her about it offscreen because I don't recall her ever asking about it or having to be told about it. After all, her dad was heading there, too. He probably would have told her where they were going as well as the trip being long and dangerous from the beginning.
I am certain that Littlefoot mentioned the Great Valley to Cera at some point; I meant that it is possible that Cera’s parents didn’t say anything to her about it. After all, Ducky’s parents apparently didn’t tell her they were going to the Great Valley. And it would appear that Littlefoot himself hardly knew anything about the valley (despite spending his entire childhood up to that point traveling towards it) until he asked his mother about it. Also, while their canonicity may be debatable, the books based on the movie show that Littlefoot is the only member of the gang with knowledge of the Great Valley; Cera and the others are unaware of it.
Honestly, I think that assuming that Cera was totaly unaware of Littlefoot's mother's fate because we never actually see a scene in which Littlefoot laid this out to her (she had after all at least seen the wounding of his mother) is really stretching what is likely and plausible quite a bit.
Yeah...on second thought, maybe it is a bit of a stretch. I’ll admit that I added that statement a bit extemporaneously; I considered it a possibility that Cera had not been aware of Littlefoot’s mother’s death, but I didn’t think it over that much. :oops So never mind.
To clarify my position one last time, I believe that Littlefoot and Cera are both at fault, but given the circumstances, I understand why they behaved the way they did.
Frankly, I don’t have much to say about a possible alternative outcome of Littlefoot and Cera’s fight. As I indicated earlier, Kacie already expressed essentially the same opinion I have (as well as making several points that I probably would not have thought of myself, but that I agree with completely).
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There's just so much wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to start. So let me see if I got this right: It's okay for Cera to insult Littlefoot's mother, who, as WeirdRaptor pointed out, DIED right in front of him! But when Littlefoot attacks Cera for her incredibly cruel comment(Calling his own deceased mother stupid) then he's a coward? I can tell you that if my own mother had died and someone called her stupid, I'd react very similiar to how Littlefoot did. He had every right to stand up for his mother! He was an emotionally traumatized little kid who watched his mom die right before his eyes! Then someone comes along and says "Well she was a stupid Longneck too!" You expect Littlefoot to just sit down and talk about it with her?! HA!
Okay. I'm gonna try to handle this as calmly as I possibly can at this point. First of all, I did NOT ever say Cera was right in her actions nor did I support what she did. That's a crock of *censored* as far as I'm concerned. I see my post was quoted in your post...and there's nothing that says I said Cera was right. To say I even THINK Cera was right is a downright load of bullcrap :anger.
I'm not saying Cera was right, but I'm certainly not saying Littlefoot was right either. I can't believe how some here seem to glorify Littlefoot's aggressiveness toward Cera :blink:. Ever hear of "Actions speak louder than words!" or "Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me!"? Sure, words can hurt emotionally. Having been the kid who was constantly insulted and picked on day in and day out throughout childhood, I would know <_<! Words can only do so much harm to a person, but not what fists can do. She may have really struck a sensitive nerve, but that gave him no right to act the way he did. Which brings me to this next part...
You expect Littlefoot to just sit down and talk about it with her?! HA!
What the hell is that supposed to mean? Read my post again, and you'll find I did not single out any member and speak so rudely to them. What did I do to receive such a response :huh:? State my opinion? That's pretty sad when I did not attack anybody's views to begin with :neutral.
WeirdRaptor brought up another good point: Littlefoot tried to end the fight. He tried to walk away but of course Cera has to get the final hit in when all Littlefoot was trying to do was walk away. And then near the end of the movie, Littlefoot actually welcomes her back with open arms(Err...paws). If I were Littlefoot, I probably wouldn't have been so quick to accept her back. In fact, she should have been very damn grateful that he was so willing to put up with all the abuse she gave him. CERA was the immature one, not Littlefoot.
If anybody, it is LITTLEFOOT who should be grateful Cera even saved his a** after what he did. Tell me this: If somebody said somethin' that was hurtful and ya beat the crap out of 'em, what is one good reason for him or her to come back and help ya out, besides for the sake of preventing loss of life (after all, the others were in the same pickle as Littlefoot)?
I do not support either characters' actions, but I remain in my opinion that Littlefoot's actions were more severe. By the way, if I attacked ANYBODY in this post, it was unintentional and I apologize already. No further comments for now :neutral.
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You expect Littlefoot to just sit down and talk about it with her?! HA!
What the hell is that supposed to mean? Read my post again, and you'll find I did not single out any member and speak so rudely to them. What did I do to receive such a response :huh:? State my opinion? That's pretty sad when I did not attack anybody's views to begin with :neutral.
I agree. I think that comment was out of line; there was no reason to say it, especially since you were only stating your opinion and not directly attacking anyone's opinion.
Personally, I can't help but feel I'm responsible for this debate. When I had posted my disagreement with babidikrakenguard's statement of making Littlefoot the winner, I hadn't intended on sparking such a heated debate. This topic seems to have turned from discussing what changes we'd like to see in the movie into just talking about the fight between Littlefoot and Cera. I apologize.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to move these posts into a separate topic, or just cease this discussion altogether.
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Alright I was not going to bring this up. In my last post I was going to but I told myself "Just don't." Now I'm going to. The reason I'm so defensive towards Littlefoot in this is because it reminds me of something that happened last year at school. One of my friends (now ex-friend) had fallen in the hallway and cut his finger(wasn't bleeding, wasn't a deep cut) and he was whining about it when it wasn't even bad. So I told him "Big deal. My dad had a hernia last month and that hurts way more than a little cut." So then he just plain blurts out "Well I don't care". That had made me so mad, that I just said "What the **** do you know?! You don't know **** about what my dad went through, you little ****!" And I was really close to smacking him halfway across the face but instead me and one of my other friends(Who I'm still close friends with) just walked away. Now granted my dad is alive and well but I'm still horrified over what I saw. Yeah it happened a year ago but that's not something you easily forget. Seeing my dad in so much pain, screaming at the top of his lungs was emotionally traumatizing for me. JUST like how Littlefoot watching his mom die was traumatizing for him.
This is a very sensitive topic for me. Right now I'm so angry my whole body's shaking. I don't care if my ex-friend didn't know of my dad's hernia and I don't care if Cera didn't know Littlefoot's mom died. Simple fact is that you DON'T insult someone else's parents! Especially to their face! Think about it: What if I said your mothers were stupid? Wouldn't you want to hit me for that(Not that I ever WOULD say something like that, it's just an example).
Look, I'm fine with you not agreeing with me. After all, that's what makes discussion so intresting. Hearing others' points of views. However, what made me attack your opinion was you calling Littlefoot a coward! Was he being pushy towards Cera? Yes. But maybe he was worried that something bad would happen to her if she took her own way. I don't think that warranted his being both verbally and physically attacked.
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We all aware that Littlefoot wasn't in the right, either, Tiger. You were just unfair to him. I notice that you failed to comment on the fact that he is just a kid and a traumatized one at that. I repeat, how can we expect adult behavior from him after a certain point when none of his issues had been properly dealt with at that point.
Yes, actions may speak louder than words, but the "sticks and stones" saying has always been a bunch of bull. Words can hurt every bit as much as sticks and stones, but in their own way. That is why they are more powerful than action. Cera took horrible words and attacked Littlefoot with them.
Littlefoot and company saved her from the pachys that were trying to hurt her sometime between the the final showdown with the Sharptooth and the fight, remember? He helped save her life. If anything, she's the one who should be grateful she was welcomed back with open paws because she owed him big after that.
No, beating the crap out of someone who says mean things to you isn't right, but try getting a hurt and stressed child to understand that. You are being very critical of his actions. You seem to be forgetting he was a CHILD who was detrieved of any guidance at the moment. There were no adults to act adult-like in the situation to defuse is. Petrie and Ducky were too small, and Spike was too scared. That left the quick tempered Cera and himself.
You didn't attack anyone, Tiger. Rest assured on that.
I'm just shocked at how negative you are towards Littlefoot. Yes, he made a mistake, but man, you sure took harsh stance on the matter. Its like Animeboye said, you DO NOT insult another person's parents, especially not to their face, and especially not when said parent had died right in front of that person or went through some bad situation. Its emotionally damaging, and Littlefoot, aside from one encounter with Rooter, had no adults around to help him cope with what happened. For the sake of his promise to his mother to survive and make the valley and for the sake of his newfound friends, he was holding it together. He was under premendous amounts of stress day in and day out. Amounts of stress that adults would crack from, but he still held on. Then Cera in all her infinite wisdom started pressing all the wrong bottoms. A little compassion for Littlefoot's side of the story might be a little warranted.
As animeboye said, yes, he was pushy, but they were in a barren wasteland where a predator could be lurking anywhere looking for an easy meal. A alone easy meal, like going off on her lonesome would have been. I think Littlefoot was just a little justified in being pushy right then.
Like I said before, I have a brother who is no longer among the living. If anyone said something terrible like that about him I don't know what I would do, but it wouldn't be pretty. I repeat, insulting family is something you just DO NOT DO.
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Can we PLEASE all calm down and/or change the subject? I REALLY don't want to see this thread deleted because of flaring tempers. :(
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Perhaps I was too harsh on Littlefoot. That's all I have to say about this. I feel I am responsible for this thread taking a negative turn. Like Pangaea said, I don't want to see this thread get deleted either, and I will keep myself out of this until the original subject of this thread returns. This was originally a constructive discussion that has turned into tempers flaring.
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The reason I'm so defensive towards Littlefoot in this is because it reminds me of something that happened last year at school. One of my friends (now ex-friend) had fallen in the hallway and cut his finger(wasn't bleeding, wasn't a deep cut) and he was whining about it when it wasn't even bad. So I told him "Big deal. My dad had a hernia last month and that hurts way more than a little cut." So then he just plain blurts out "Well I don't care". That had made me so mad, that I just said "What the **** do you know?! You don't know **** about what my dad went through, you little ****!" And I was really close to smacking him halfway across the face but instead me and one of my other friends(Who I'm still close friends with) just walked away. Now granted my dad is alive and well but I'm still horrified over what I saw. Yeah it happened a year ago but that's not something you easily forget. Seeing my dad in so much pain, screaming at the top of his lungs was emotionally traumatizing for me. JUST like how Littlefoot watching his mom die was traumatizing for him.
Don't tell me you seriously dropped a friend over this.
"I don't care" is NOT an insult, it is just pretty rude.
If your friend was hurt, and your reaction is "Well, my dad had it worse so shut up you whiny little"... That is an insult. An obvious one. "I don't care" is a perfectly reasonable response- if anything it's a polite one.
Let's say I cut my finger off. I am in pain from it and say it hurts. You, instead of giving me some support(LIKE A FRIEND SHOULD) say "Well, my dad got two fingers cut off and that's worse, so shut up."
Do I care if your father was in pain then when I'm in pain now and he ISN'T?
Probably not, and you use him as an excuse to INSULT me for saying that I'm in pain. Yes, your situation was a bit more extreme, but the same principle applies.
Don't be insensitive to others if you can't handle a civil if not very nice reponse.
This is a very sensitive topic for me. Right now I'm so angry my whole body's shaking. I don't care if my ex-friend didn't know of my dad's hernia and I don't care if Cera didn't know Littlefoot's mom died. Simple fact is that you DON'T insult someone else's parents!
Frankly, you insulted him and got a civil response back.
Cera actually gave littlefoot a highly hurtful comment that was only meant to be mean.
You're situation aren't even alike.
If this person is still willing to be your friend, I say you should reconcile. He's the victim here and you're the one that was mean to him, not the other way around.
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^ You don't have the competence (nor does anyone else) to edit the messages of anyone else.
While the discussion got a bit out of hand resulting in a couple of somewhat one-sided and emotionally charged interpretations of the scene there were mercifully no personal attacks.
I think the topic in general is quite interesting and if tempers calm down a bit I think it would be interesting to continue with not so much focus on a moral "who was more at fault?" kind of question.
Since this thread is originally about what could have been made different about the original movie, what is it that you would have changed about the scene (if anything) and about the further course of the movie?
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^ You don't have the competence (nor does anyone else) to edit the messages of anyone else.
While the discussion got a bit out of hand resulting in a couple of somewhat one-sided and emotionally charged interpretations of the scene there were mercifully no personal attacks.
I think the topic in general is quite interesting and if tempers calm down a bit I think it would be interesting to continue with not so much focus on a moral "who was more at fault?" kind of question.
Since this thread is originally about what could have been made different about the original movie, what is it that you would have changed about the scene (if anything) and about the further course of the movie?
Not that- I meant I would edit my own post. The quoting system is kind of dysfunctional here, I much prefer when the quote actually appears in the box you're writing in with the quote tags attached.
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^ You don't have the competence (nor does anyone else) to edit the messages of anyone else.
While the discussion got a bit out of hand resulting in a couple of somewhat one-sided and emotionally charged interpretations of the scene there were mercifully no personal attacks.
I think the topic in general is quite interesting and if tempers calm down a bit I think it would be interesting to continue with not so much focus on a moral "who was more at fault?" kind of question.
Since this thread is originally about what could have been made different about the original movie, what is it that you would have changed about the scene (if anything) and about the further course of the movie?
Yeah, I'd like to see this topic continue without the heated tempers myself. Let's stop this debate and continue on with what this topic is actually about.
As for me, I don't think I've stated what I'd like to change in this movie yet. Other than probably putting the cut scenes back in the movie, I don't think there's anything I'd change. For me, the movie is fine the way it is.
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^ My mistake. I never used the quote function to answer a message.
Anyway everyone who would have done the quarrel scene between Cera and Littlefoot differently, how would you have changed it?
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The reason I'm so defensive towards Littlefoot in this is because it reminds me of something that happened last year at school. One of my friends (now ex-friend) had fallen in the hallway and cut his finger(wasn't bleeding, wasn't a deep cut) and he was whining about it when it wasn't even bad. So I told him "Big deal. My dad had a hernia last month and that hurts way more than a little cut." So then he just plain blurts out "Well I don't care". That had made me so mad, that I just said "What the **** do you know?! You don't know **** about what my dad went through, you little ****!" And I was really close to smacking him halfway across the face but instead me and one of my other friends(Who I'm still close friends with) just walked away. Now granted my dad is alive and well but I'm still horrified over what I saw. Yeah it happened a year ago but that's not something you easily forget. Seeing my dad in so much pain, screaming at the top of his lungs was emotionally traumatizing for me. JUST like how Littlefoot watching his mom die was traumatizing for him.
Don't tell me you seriously dropped a friend over this.
"I don't care" is NOT an insult, it is just pretty rude.
If your friend was hurt, and your reaction is "Well, my dad had it worse so shut up you whiny little"... That is an insult. An obvious one. "I don't care" is a perfectly reasonable response- if anything it's a polite one.
Let's say I cut my finger off. I am in pain from it and say it hurts. You, instead of giving me some support(LIKE A FRIEND SHOULD) say "Well, my dad got two fingers cut off and that's worse, so shut up."
Do I care if your father was in pain then when I'm in pain now and he ISN'T?
Probably not, and you use him as an excuse to INSULT me for saying that I'm in pain. Yes, your situation was a bit more extreme, but the same principle applies.
Don't be insensitive to others if you can't handle a civil if not very nice reponse.
This is a very sensitive topic for me. Right now I'm so angry my whole body's shaking. I don't care if my ex-friend didn't know of my dad's hernia and I don't care if Cera didn't know Littlefoot's mom died. Simple fact is that you DON'T insult someone else's parents!
Frankly, you insulted him and got a civil response back.
Cera actually gave littlefoot a highly hurtful comment that was only meant to be mean.
You're situation aren't even alike.
If this person is still willing to be your friend, I say you should reconcile. He's the victim here and you're the one that was mean to him, not the other way around.
No what made me stop being his friend was that he started spreading rumors about both me and these girls I was good friends with. Also because he always had to butt in to my business. He always would have a problem if I ever talked with one of my other friends. I forgave him over the whole "dad" incident but I didn't forgive him for this because he has done both those things on numerous occasions. Me and these girls have given him numerous chances. We told him this year that we were going to give him one more chance and he blew that one too.
RWB, don't even talk as if you know me. Because you don't. Had he broken a limb or actually cut OFF one of his fingers, then yeah, I would have stayed there and helped. A small cut, which is barely noticeable, is NOTHING to whine about! I get cuts all the time. I've gotten papercuts which sting like the blazes but you know what I do for those? I slap a band aid on those cuts, and get back to my business. That's all you have to do. Nothing to whine about. Sorry I'm so "mean and heartless" for not crying over a tiny cut. I didn't feel bad for him because I've seen way worse. My dad had a hernia, my best friend's older sister had a seizure, and another of my friends broke his arm in gym class. And you know what? I felt realy bad for all three of them. I can't even begin to imagine what either a hernia, a seizure(Apparently I had one as a child), or a broken limb feels like. And truth be told, I really don't want to.
I can't believe this topic went from what you would change in the movie, to Littlefoot and Cera, to the personal life of Animeboye. May I suggest maybe locking this topic?
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No what made me stop being his friend was that he started spreading rumors about both me and these girls I was good friends with. Also because he always had to butt in to my business. He always would have a problem if I ever talked with one of my other friends. I forgave him over the whole "dad" incident but I didn't forgive him for this because he has done both those things on numerous occasions. Me and these girls have given him numerous chances. We told him this year that we were going to give him one more chance and he blew that one too.
That, on the other hand, is a very valid reason to end a friendship. It's just the Ex-friend used together with all the rest that made this sound like the deciding factor.
RWB, don't even talk as if you know me. Because you don't. Had he broken a limb or actually cut OFF one of his fingers, then yeah, I would have stayed there and helped.
That is not how you made it sound. All I have to go by is how you talk on the internet, and if you come off as being insensitive, I can only judge you from that impression. You might be the nicest guy I ever met if I get to know you, but that's hard to to do through a single post on an internet forum.
A small cut, which is barely noticeable, is NOTHING to whine about! I get cuts all the time. I've gotten papercuts which sting like the blazes but you know what I do for those? I slap a band aid on those cuts, and get back to my business.
That's all you have to do. Nothing to whine about. Sorry I'm so "mean and heartless" for not crying over a tiny cut. I didn't feel bad for him because I've seen way worse.
A non-bleeding wound can be worse than a bleeding one, just saying. :p
Still, I agree that he was whiny. I would have said that he should stop whining too.
You should still just have said "get over it/yourself". No need to throw your daddy's hernia into the discussion. To tell someone to stop whining, you should never ever do it with a comparison that is obviously not in his favor- it will provoke a retaliation. Just stay with "Get over yourself.".
Let me put this in a quasi-psychological angle.
Your friend gets a new computer and boasts about it.
Your dad got a better new computer last week, is your answer. As if simply to outmuscle his point.
I don't care about your daddy's new computer, I care about mine.
I know it's not the same thing as pain, but the same thing applies, psychologically. He sees your comment as a way to one-up him, even if that is not the intention.
Thus the immature "I don't care" response.
Your comment becomes a boast, even if that's not the intended purpose. See why I thought your first comment made you look insensitive?
My dad had a hernia, my best friend's older sister had a seizure, and another of my friends broke his arm in gym class.
And you know what? I felt realy bad for all three of them. I can't even begin to imagine what either a hernia, a seizure(Apparently I had one as a child), or a broken limb feels like. And truth be told, I really don't want to.
I say you should try to keep from having anything like that happen, too. I cracked my wrist once, and the pain I felt was something I never ever want to feel again. Even moving it was excruciating for more than a week afterwards.
And there's no need to lock the thread, just to get back on topic. ^^
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The topic could still be saved, I think, if the flaring tempers would stop and we return to the original discussion at hand rather than snapping at one another. Let's just calm down.
As for Malte's question regarding the quarrel, I can't say I can think of anything that I'd like to change. I feel it worked out fine the way it did. But perhaps another outcome may have been better. I'm not sure, though.
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I can't believe this topic went from what you would change in the movie, to Littlefoot and Cera, to the personal life of Animeboye. May I suggest maybe locking this topic?
No, I am not going to lock a thread on a basically interesting topic just because a few members can't stay civil.
This thread is being monitored closely and if there are any board rules being broken then there will be the according intervention.
Now I strongly suggest to calm down, get back to the topic, and settle personal quarrels either reasonably or at a different place. Get a grip and back to topic :angry:
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Ok, back on topic.
So yeah, I probably wouldn't change too much, since without Littlefoot and Cera's quarrel, Cera coming in and securing the win against Sharptooth wouldn't have been nearly as powerful. Besides, I think it made for some good conflict between the characters.
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No what made me stop being his friend was that he started spreading rumors about both me and these girls I was good friends with. Also because he always had to butt in to my business. He always would have a problem if I ever talked with one of my other friends. I forgave him over the whole "dad" incident but I didn't forgive him for this because he has done both those things on numerous occasions. Me and these girls have given him numerous chances. We told him this year that we were going to give him one more chance and he blew that one too.
RWB, don't even talk as if you know me. Because you don't. Had he broken a limb or actually cut OFF one of his fingers, then yeah, I would have stayed there and helped. A small cut, which is barely noticeable, is NOTHING to whine about! I get cuts all the time. I've gotten papercuts which sting like the blazes but you know what I do for those? I slap a band aid on those cuts, and get back to my business. That's all you have to do. Nothing to whine about. Sorry I'm so "mean and heartless" for not crying over a tiny cut. I didn't feel bad for him because I've seen way worse. My dad had a hernia, my best friend's older sister had a seizure, and another of my friends broke his arm in gym class. And you know what? I felt realy bad for all three of them. I can't even begin to imagine what either a hernia, a seizure(Apparently I had one as a child), or a broken limb feels like. And truth be told, I really don't want to.
I can't believe this topic went from what you would change in the movie, to Littlefoot and Cera, to the personal life of Animeboye. May I suggest maybe locking this topic?
WILL EDIT
Well if that's all you have to say, then our arguement is done. You can go ahead and reply but I have nothing further to say to you. I'm getting back to the topic at hand and am going to ignore you from this point on.
Malte, I do apologize. I guess I was a little worried that this would just esculate into something even worse. Either way, I'm calm and I'm just not going to say anything more to this RWB person.
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Animeboye, Will edit means I'm currently working with this site's dysfunctional quote system. I said that as late as last page.
It's far easier to handle points independently that way.
And I'm sorry if I came of as rude earlier- that was not my intention. Friends? :wub
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Awright. I don't want to be banned from this site and I didn't mean to get everyone riled up. I still don't agree with the "Littlefoot's a coward" thing but whatever. Let's just start anew.
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Here's a suggestion for you RWB that may help with the quotes. Copy the messages you'd like to quote and paste them in a text file. Then click reply rather than quote. Then click the QUOTE button (next to the @ and the CODE buttons) twice, one for each message you'd like to quote, paste the messages in between the [][/]'s, then type replies underneath each of those. I sometimes do this myself; I think it is easier than making a reply with one long quote only to edit it later. This way, you can make a post without having to edit it later.
I apologize if I confused you. I hope this suggestion helps you out in the future, though.
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Dang. I was expecting an update between the time in which I lasted posted and now, but I didn't quite forsee this turn. Yeah, let's keep it civil, though I'm glad personal attacks were kept out.
Also: Hey, don't close this topic! The arguments didn't get nearly bad enough for that.
Anyway, I kind of like this topic now being open to discuss any part of the original film. This is kind of what I intended (minus the heated emotions).
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If you’ll excuse me slightly delaying a return to the topic, my method of dealing with the quote system is to enter a little bit of text in the quote box, then hit “Preview Post”. Below the post preview, the quoted text will have been moved to the post box with the quote tags attached.
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On topic again. Didn't you make a fanfic about this very topic Malte?
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This is becoming a flame war. Isn't this unbecoming? Referring to a few post above.
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No locky thread up, i didn't mean for the topic i came up with to turn into arguements if that's what happened! :(
Maybe i should have ignored posting the whole Cera-Vs-Littlefoot thing. Although i did read quiet a bit of interesting tid-bits about other peoples opinions for both sides. However, i still side with Littlefoot and i stay to what i said before: Cera delivered the first attack and Littlefoot defended his mother. Words can indeed prove to be much more painful then fists, it all depends on who the person is and what words are used. But enough about that, i shall bring forth another topic in hope that there will be no more arguements and that the topic stays open kinda dumb, but..
Those longnecks that woofed down the entire tree of green food.. Why didn't they go with them? :p
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@jedi472
Yes, the first LBT story I ever wrote (starting in December 1998) is titled "The Big Quarrel". It really shows though that by the time I translated it in 2000 / 2001 my English was rather... well not really English ;)
About the story itself there are many things which I wouldn't write the way I did back then anymore and there are some kind of corny / too simple scenes. But I think I did manage to capture how serious an offense to Littlefoot the whole thing was and how Cera's stubbornness worked against her (though I think I tamed her down too much in the story).
Those longnecks that woofed down the entire tree of green food.. Why didn't they go with them?
Good question. Perhaps that one would have been more understandable if they had kept in the Oasis scene. Maybe those longnecks would not have allowed for more "eaters" to come along with them. Or perhaps they would have accepted but only Littlefoot. Maybe they were not heading after the bright circle. And from what we see in the movie there is a chance that they didn't travel at a pace the kids could have kept up with.
The movie does not give a definite answer on this.
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The longnecks may not be going to the great valley and littlefoot and the group could not catch up with them anyway.
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I don't really agree that words can be more painful than fists. Physical attacks can do a lot more, cause more pain, even kill. Words can be hurtful, but they can't be as painful as a physical attack, in my opinion.
There is something about that fight scene that I just noticed. I wonder if Littlefoot had a bit of an anger control issue. No, I'm not referring to when Cera gave the insult; I'm talking about just before it. When Cera tried to leave and Littlefoot tried to stop her, already he seems pretty ticked off, even though Cera hadn't given any kind of insult at this point.
I wonder how far Littlefoot would have gone had Cera not given the insult. Would he still have attacked her simply out of frustration? Would he have let her walk off? For me, I'm not really sure how things would have gone if Cera hadn't given the insult.
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Says Dark who has never been under psychological attack.
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Says Dark who has never been under psychological attack.
Let's be cool. You don't know that for sure.
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Aye, let's not get personal again! I really really don't want to see this thread escalating!
Physical and psychological pain are two different things with some intersections but very often comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.
There are some clear cases. If we are talking (without further context) of being called stupid on the one hand or being burned with a hot iron I suppose most would pick the psychological pain. Being told nasty stuff about a relative, especially a deceased one, would to most seem worse than a minor clout.
In many cases it is not so easy to figure out. One should not forget though that very often the pain dealt with words is the cause for physical pain. One should not underestimate the damage words can do.
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If continuing the discussion of the Cera/Littlefoot quarrel cannot be done without tempers rising and people taking other people's comments and opinions personally, then I think we should abandon the subject. I for one found the issue to be quite interesting and intellectually stimulating to talk about, and if it could be somehow guaranteed that other posters would not become emotionally distressed by the matter, I would love to continue discussing it. Unfortunately, such insurance is not possible, and I would rather not say another word on the matter if doing so will lead to others being upset. :neutral
EDIT: If I may say one thing on the physical vs. psychological pain issue, the tolerance levels for each differ from person to person. Just as some people have higher pain thresholds than others, some people are less affected by words and insults than others. (I myself am pretty sensitive when it comes to both. :p)
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I'm just posting to say that when I said I felt words can't do as much harm as physical attack, I was referring to physical harm only. Words aren't as lethal as physical attacks, in fact I don't think I know of an instance where someone died simply from harsh words. I was not saying that words aren't as painful.
I apologize if I upset anyone. I'll probably just avoid this topic in the future.
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All: we'll just keep watch on this thread; it isn't going anywhere considering things have been resolved to this point.
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Speaking of the T-Rex at the end, guys (in an attempt to move the discussion onward): just what motives do you think were going through Littlefoot's mind when he decided to "get rid of [the Sharptooth] once and for all." Petty vengance or was he just worried that he would use their scent to find the Great Valley, or was a it a mix of both.
Anyway, let's keep ourselves composed this time. *breathes in and breathes out deeply and slowly* Alright, ready. *smiles emptily as a fire of madness burns behind the mask*
Also, would any of you have changed anything about the final confrontation with the sharptooth?
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There has been a discussion on this topic (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=354.0) some time ago.
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New users, new perspectives, my friend.
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Not saying it ought not to be discussed, just suggesting for that discussion to be continued in the original thread to help avoiding repetition :)
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Isn't that old thread old enough that it was locked, though?
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Nope, threads are only logged if the topic of the thread is either over (e.g. former award voting sessions) or if they are escalating. Threads are not logged for just being old as very often some new elements can be brought up at a much later time (we have threads with posts stretching over many years). Here is the link (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=354.0) to the thread on Littlefoot's motives to kill the sharptooth.
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Well, part of this new direction is also asking if there was anything they'd change about it, so I don't see the need to go back to the old topic.
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Aye, if we are discussing about how the respective scene could / would / should have been different (or not) rather than speculating about the existing scene this would be a different topic fitting into this thread :yes
So what would you change about the scene (if anything) WR?
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A little more clerity on just what Littlefoot wants to accomplish by killing the Sharptooth would have been nice. It's always disturbed me that the scene could be alternatively read to mean Littlefoot just wants revenge and is willing to use his friends to do it.
Now, I know that IS NOT the case. Paying back what Toothy did to Littlefoot's mother was just icing on the cake. I am firmly of the belief that Littlefoot was just afraid Sharptooth would find the Valley by following them or kill them before they even got there at the rate they were going.
However, I've honest to God met people who read the scene in the darkest ways. Their take on it ain't pretty.
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Nobody has had anything to say about this? Honestly?
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Perhaps because most of what could be said had been said in the thread specifically about the scene. I do agree that by using the original concept of letting Littlefoot find the Great Valley before the encounter with Sharptooth it would have been clearer to interpret as a necessity to prevent the Sharptooth from entering the Great Valley.
Other than that I personally don't see the interpretation of Littlefoot risking the lives of his friends for any reason other than necessity particularly prominent, but one can be of a different opinion of course.
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It was because they didn't want Sharptooth to enter the great valley. In the original ending Littlefoot was saying that they need to get rid of him because of this, but since the mom ghost scene from the early discovery of the great valley was moved here, Littlefoot couldn't have already known where the great valley is.
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And thus he would have been following Littlefoot's scent trail right into the Valley.
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Though that sort of thing would have likely happened before, not that Littlefoot may think of that being as young as he and his friends are in the first movie. His idea does make sense from that standpoint, of dealing with the sharptooth so it would not follow them into the Great Valley, especially if he had been to the great valley and went back for them.
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So in other words, in terms of cutting Littlefoot having been to the GReat Valley and gone back for his friends, it was one of the times Spielberg and Lucas should have let Bluth have it his way. How many minutes could it possibly have added, anyway?
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What I always paraphrased him saying was somthing along the lines of "this guy has been folowing us for days, let's kill him" and I just always found it slightly numerous how that just sorta comes out of the blue, with no discussion leading up to it. So in a sence, it can qualify as murder. Let it be known though that I have Absolutly no problem with this, they have good reasons to kill the sharptooth, and if they had not killed him he might have gotten into the vally, but at that time he had not been doing anything to them. He was just walking around. Now I am not deffdnding the sharptooth, but I think that drowning him was alittle out of the blue harsh is all.
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So what is your suggestion about what Littlefoot should have done in that situation?
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Actually, I think he was tracking them at the time. Didn't you notice how he kept sniffing the air?
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Aye, so what should Littlefoot have done in that situation to evade being accused of risking the lives of everyone mainly for revenge (as had been suggested in the other thread about the matter)?
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bump
Aye, so what should Littlefoot have done in that situation to evade being accused of risking the lives of everyone mainly for revenge (as had been suggested in the other thread about the matter)?
To be honest I can't imagine that Littlefoot could get rid of him on his own...
The Gang defeated him together. Personally, I think that the scene should demonstrate that by holding on together they are strong, even strong( admittedly also smart) enough to send this Sharptooth to dino heaven :lol
The only way I can think of where Littlefoot might defeat him on his own is to lure him into the deep water all alone, though it would have been by far more dangerous than their original plan...
Now my two cents to the original question( uhm... what is it :bang look it up, Ducky!!!)
Ah yes...
On top of all things that could have made the original movie even better(I agree to many members here that it's the best movie of the franchise)doubtlessly are the outcutted scenes :exactly
Will we find a member here who doesn't want to see them??? :P: I bet we won't. Except we have fake fans on here :smile
I guess our last hope is the 25th anniversary this year though I doubt we'll get what we want :cry
Some other points that might had been included:
- explaining why Littlefoots Father isn't around
- Petrie hatching
- showing the fight of LF and Cera instead of showing Spike, Petrie and Ducky...
I personally really like the animation style although it's kinda old...
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I actually made a list a long time ago about what I'd change in this thread:
http://gangoffive.net/index.php?showtopic=10533 (http://gangoffive.net/index.php?showtopic=10533)
I still would make those changes in an instant if given the choice, but really, a lot of it is just nitpicking. The movie is pretty great as it is.
But I still would love the deleted scenes. ;)
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To my horror, Land Before Time 1 was the shortest with about 64 minutes. :blink:
If they can use the deleted scenes, it will be longer. :p :DD :lol :smile
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It was 69 minutes actually but they got rid of them because it would have been to graphic for children.
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It was 69 minutes actually but they got rid of them because it would have been to graphic for children.
I wonder if the scenes are not cut, then Land Before Time 1 would be 69 minutes. :p :DD :lol :smile
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They where cut because it was gonna be long the a hour and nine minutes.
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They where cut because it was gonna be long the a hour and nine minutes.
How many scenes are cut in Land Before Time 1, Petrie85?
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I think quite a few the fighting scene with the T-Rex was a bit more brutal so they had to edit that out.
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I think quite a few the fighting scene with the T-Rex was a bit more brutal so they had to edit that out.
The editing was fine. :p :)
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It's a shame those parts where cut and they're gone for good. I would have liked to see them.
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It's a shame those parts where cut and they're gone for good. I would have liked to see them.
Me too. It is shame to see the scenes getting cut. :cry
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It's a shame those parts where cut and they're gone for good. I would have liked to see them.
Don't they still have pictures and cells of the "cut" out scene?
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It's a shame those parts where cut and they're gone for good. I would have liked to see them.
Don't they still have pictures and cells of the "cut" out scene?
I'm not sure to be honest Someone once told me back in the late 90's the finnish version of the Land Before Time had the full uncut version of the movie. That is all I remember at the moment.