As good as this film is...

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #40 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:21:28 PM

Well, I think just about every whose going to speak up has had their say in what they might have changed about the original.
Here's an idea, since its always such a sad thing to see a discussion, let's go ahead and apply this subject matter to the sequels. What would everyone change about the sequels, or certain sequels, or one certain sequel?

Pangaea · **Reply #41 on:** November 17, 2009, 11:15:10 PM

Actually, there were a few things I wanted to say (I hadn't gotten around to sharing them beforehand because they were incredibly difficult to word):

Firstly, although I do think that the rearranging of scenes in the final cut of the movie was a little awkward, and in some respects makes less sense than Bluth’s original concept, I think I like the film better with the big unveiling of the Great Valley taking place at the very end, as opposed to right after the gang splits up. Obviously, I’ve never seen the ending as it was originally intended, but I’d expect that the conclusion would have felt less momentous, with the Great Valley having already been revealed.

Still, I think it would be great if a “director’s cut” version of the film were released, with deleted scenes and perhaps even the original ending restored. Sad to say, it’ll probably never happen.

P.S. I’m no admin, but I think that a discussion of the sequels should be created as a new topic in the “General Land Before Time” forum.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #42 on:** November 17, 2009, 11:20:54 PM

Alright, I'll make a new post about this on the General Land Before Time board, then.

Pikkutassu · **Reply #43 on:** November 22, 2009, 06:53:08 PM

Well, with finnish voiceacting this film is the definition of perfect. Some of the original voices are much worse, especially Petrie sounds somewhat annoying with broken english. So, the only bad thing really is those 19 outcut scenes.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #44 on:** November 22, 2009, 09:02:40 PM

That would seem to be the universal opinion. Sad. All of LBT's older fans want to see what was excluded from the film, but the production left such a sour taste in everyone's mouth that hell will probably freeze over before Bluth or Spielberg or Lucas ever touch it again.

babidikrakenguard · **Reply #45 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:01:15 AM

My opinion: The animation blows the doors off the sequels..

But if i had to change one thing, it's the fight between Littlefoot and Cera.

"Who says?"

"My Mother!"

"Then she was a stupid longneck too."

That is an awfull thing to say, and i think it's probably the most stupid part of the movie having Cera win the fight after what she said. If i could change anything in the movie, it would be that fight scene. Littlefoot should have won, i dont care if Cera's actually stronger or not. The only good that came from her winning the fight was she went the wrong way and Littlefoot was right, but still! come on!

Other then that, we wants the outcut scenes!

DarkHououmon · **Reply #46 on:** December 09, 2009, 11:32:02 AM

I personally don't really see the problem with Cera winning. It wouldn't make much sense for Littlefoot to win. He is not as experienced as Cera. And besides, he was the one who initiated the fight in the first place. Cera wasn't looking for a fight; she only fought back when Littlefoot lost his temper and attacked her. And I think it's possible that Cera didn't really mean what she said, but was too stubborn to admit it and take it back.

Littlefoot starting the fight and then losing it would have taught him a good lesson: never start fights. As I said before, Littlefoot was the one who attacked Cera; all Cera was trying to do was leave. And the fight does show a bit of Cera's darker side, which makes the ending where she saves them more powerful. If she had lost, then this scene wouldn't have had as much of an impact, in my opinion. Plus, if Littlefoot won, then it would have taught him a not-so-good lesson: if you want someone to do something, beat them up.

Even if Littlefoot did win, what difference would it make? It would probably have led to the same result: Littlefoot still being mad and leaving, Cera going off in the wrong way with the others following her. If the whole point of wanting Littlefoot to win is simply for the satisfaction of making Cera pay for what she said, then I don't see the point or benefit from it. No offense intended.

Cancerian Tiger · **Reply #47 on:** December 09, 2009, 12:49:52 PM

Quote from: DarkHououmon,Dec 9 2009 on 10:32 AM

I personally don't really see the problem with Cera winning. It wouldn't make much sense for Littlefoot to win. He is not as experienced as Cera. And besides, he was the one who initiated the fight in the first place. Cera wasn't looking for a fight; she only fought back when Littlefoot lost his temper and attacked her. And I think it's possible that Cera didn't really mean what she said, but was too stubborn to admit it and take it back.

Littlefoot starting the fight and then losing it would have taught him a good lesson: never start fights. As I said before, Littlefoot was the one who attacked Cera; all Cera was trying to do was leave. And the fight does show a bit of Cera's darker side, which makes the ending where she saves them more powerful. If she had lost, then this scene wouldn't have had as much of an impact, in my opinion. Plus, if Littlefoot won, then it would have taught him a not-so-good lesson: if you want someone to do something, beat them up.

Even if Littlefoot did win, what difference would it make? It would probably have led to the same result: Littlefoot still being mad and leaving, Cera going off in the wrong way with the others following her. If the whole point of wanting Littlefoot to win is simply for the satisfaction of making Cera pay for what she said, then I don't see the point or benefit from it. No offense intended.

I could not have said it any better

. Indeed, Littlefoot was the one who started the fight and attacked Cera. I think this also reflects Littlefoot's darker side by showing that he is not always so compassionate and caring. Littlefoot can be very stubborn at times, and this fight exposed a common childhood flaw in Littlefoot's character: throwing a temper when ya don't get your way <_<. He also acted cowardly by beating up on a female (even though she's a tomboy, she's still a girl) who is smaller than him. Littlefoot handled the insult in a very immature fashion. He should've remained calm and talked to Cera about the situation and why she said what she said. I'm sure that would've calmed Cera down from whatever was causing her agitation, but rather than try to talk with Cera about why she felt that way and if she had any suggestions for how to find the Great Valley, he flipped. He had been trying to be friends with her prior to the fight, and last time I checked, beating the crap out of others to get your way is not a way of making friends

. Cera really was trying to walk away before the fight would escalate, but Littlefoot ignored her wishes and basically cornered her and got up in her face while raising his voice. I'm surprised Cera did not attack first out of self-defense. In my opinion, he was acting like an immature coward and he deserved to lose that fight.

Malte279 · **Reply #48 on:** December 09, 2009, 05:03:13 PM

I see the points of both sides and disagree with some from both sides. It is important to realize that by offending Littlefoot's mother (and that after everything that had happened including Cera's own rescue by Littlefoot's mother) Cera sort of committed the one thing that Littlefoot really couldn't forgive at that moment. He had been very patient and friendly towards her in spite of being turned back so often. He had even spared Cera's feelings in moments when he could have really gloated over her (like when he showered her with leaves and left her with the illusion that it had been her own doing and also accepting her without any comment when she joined him and the others in the sharptooth's footprint). His mother was really the most sacret thing for Littlefoot and even after Cera had abused her he twice told her to take back the offense before he actually charged her. I do understand why in this situation Littlefoot gave up on trying to have a pedagogic talk with Cera that (for all he had learned about Cera) was unlikely to have met anything but deaf ears.
I do not agree that for his lack of composure in that situation he deserved to be labeled an immature coward.
On Cera's side we do have an extreme lack of sensitivity. I do not believe that before she said it or in the minutes after it it ever even occured to her to think about just how much Littlefoot's mother meant to him. I would even go so far as to assume that even that late in the movie she was still thinking in terms of threehorns and "those other ones" not fully crediting the later with the same degree of sense and mind (which in case of the threehorns seems to be generally somewhat less focused on dealing with emotion).

In spite of this I would not want to see the outcome of that fight changed. The scenario is interesting, but also very awkward or possibly dangerous. Cera's "goal" in the fight was just to win and after it was obvious she had won the fight was over for her.
Littlefoot's goal was to have Cera take back the abuse of his mother. In that situation however, with Cera being as aggitated and stubborn as she was she probably would have rather bit off her tongue than taking anything back. Now imagine Littlefoot having somehow brought down a Cera who stubbornly refused to take back anything. What next? Would we see Littlefoot kicking a Cera lying on the ground? How far would he go (not as far as to cause her any permanent harm I presume)? But with such an outcome not only the more forgiving Littlefoot would have been deeply hurt but also Cera who might be much less capable of coping with the humiliation of being defeated by the "flathead" than Littlefoot was with forgiving Cera's offense of his mother. A different outcome of the fight would have created a very difficult situation indeed and I doubt that there could have been a credible solution to that one (though one must admit that there never really is an "official" solution to the fight as it is, for we never ever hear Cera officially express regret over her ultimate offense to Littlefoot).

Pangaea · **Reply #49 on:** December 09, 2009, 05:21:20 PM

^^ Well...In Littlefoot's defense, Cera HAD just insulted his mother, who had essentially sacrificed herself protecting them both from Sharptooth.

I don't blame either of them, really. They'd spent days journeying long and far over rough terrain, with little to eat or drink, searching for a place they weren’t entirely sure existed. On top of that they're just kids. After climbing a mountain expecting to find the Great Valley at the top, and encountering nothing but a barren gorge, it’s no surprise tempers were set to flare. Undoubtedly it was the exasperation resulting from that disappointment that caused Cera to lose it. I’m sure she was far more grateful to Littlefoot’s mother than she let on in that scene, but was so frustrated at that point with Littlefoot (and his insistence to continue following him, despite the fact thatófrom Cera’s perspectiveóhis leadership was proving fruitless) that she snapped at him. Given the heat of the moment, I don’t think either of them could have simply calmed down and discussed the situation.

There is also the fact that Littlefoot’s leadership was based largely on the fact that he was the one with the directions to the Great Valley, which he had received secondhand from his mother; it could be argued that Cera was justifying her abandonment of the group by discrediting the source of those instructions, which backfired on her because in doing so she touched on a very sensitive subject for Littlefoot. I’m not surprised he reacted the way he did.

As for what Kacie said, I couldn’t agree more.

EDIT: Whoops! Darn I'm slow! I started writing this before Malte even posted! :blink:

Malte279 · **Reply #50 on:** December 09, 2009, 06:25:50 PM

I failed to mention the crucial points leading to Cera's frustration that caused her to say what she said. It does not change my view about the outcome of the fight though.

Paradise Bird · **Reply #51 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:16:49 PM

I couldn't put it any better.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #52 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:29:20 PM

Tiger, you are both being very unfair to Littlefoot. You have to remember that he was just a little kid who had been barely holding it together psychologically shortly after a traumatic death of a loved one.
If anyone ever talked about my own diseased brother like that, I'd do the exact same thing. Only I think I'd probably lose it even more than our long necked hero.
You are expecting adult behavior from a traumatized child. By the way, I distinctly remember Littlefoot walking away from the fight at the end and Cera ramming him from behind. Still siding with her?

Cera insulted his DEAD mother who he watched die right in front of him. How about Littlefoot's feelings instead of siding with the one who started the fight by being a jerk to someone who had been very patient with her up to that point. You gotta look at it from more than one perspective.

Also, dinosaurs probably don't have the same boy shouldn't hit girls rules that we do. In all of the original and the sequels, I don't recall a 'don't hit girls' rule mentioned. So let's take that out of the equation.

Yes, Littlefoot lost his temper, but they were both under a lot of stress and his mother was a sensative topic to him. Sure, we can say "he should have remained calm" all we want, but none of us (I doubt) have been put into such a situation.

Animeboye · **Reply #53 on:** December 10, 2009, 06:43:14 PM

Quote from: Cancerian Tiger,Dec 9 2009 on 11:49 AM

Quote from: DarkHououmon,Dec 9 2009 on 10:32 AM
I personally don't really see the problem with Cera winning. It wouldn't make much sense for Littlefoot to win. He is not as experienced as Cera. And besides, he was the one who initiated the fight in the first place. Cera wasn't looking for a fight; she only fought back when Littlefoot lost his temper and attacked her. And I think it's possible that Cera didn't really mean what she said, but was too stubborn to admit it and take it back.

Littlefoot starting the fight and then losing it would have taught him a good lesson: never start fights. As I said before, Littlefoot was the one who attacked Cera; all Cera was trying to do was leave. And the fight does show a bit of Cera's darker side, which makes the ending where she saves them more powerful. If she had lost, then this scene wouldn't have had as much of an impact, in my opinion. Plus, if Littlefoot won, then it would have taught him a not-so-good lesson: if you want someone to do something, beat them up.

Even if Littlefoot did win, what difference would it make? It would probably have led to the same result: Littlefoot still being mad and leaving, Cera going off in the wrong way with the others following her. If the whole point of wanting Littlefoot to win is simply for the satisfaction of making Cera pay for what she said, then I don't see the point or benefit from it. No offense intended.
I could not have said it any better . Indeed, Littlefoot was the one who started the fight and attacked Cera. I think this also reflects Littlefoot's darker side by showing that he is not always so compassionate and caring. Littlefoot can be very stubborn at times, and this fight exposed a common childhood flaw in Littlefoot's character: throwing a temper when ya don't get your way <_<. He also acted cowardly by beating up on a female (even though she's a tomboy, she's still a girl) who is smaller than him. Littlefoot handled the insult in a very immature fashion. He should've remained calm and talked to Cera about the situation and why she said what she said. I'm sure that would've calmed Cera down from whatever was causing her agitation, but rather than try to talk with Cera about why she felt that way and if she had any suggestions for how to find the Great Valley, he flipped. He had been trying to be friends with her prior to the fight, and last time I checked, beating the crap out of others to get your way is not a way of making friends . Cera really was trying to walk away before the fight would escalate, but Littlefoot ignored her wishes and basically cornered her and got up in her face while raising his voice. I'm surprised Cera did not attack first out of self-defense. In my opinion, he was acting like an immature coward and he deserved to lose that fight.

There's just so much wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to start. So let me see if I got this right: It's okay for Cera to insult Littlefoot's mother, who, as WeirdRaptor pointed out, DIED right in front of him! But when Littlefoot attacks Cera for her incredibly cruel comment(Calling his own deceased mother stupid) then he's a coward? I can tell you that if my own mother had died and someone called her stupid, I'd react very similiar to how Littlefoot did. He had every right to stand up for his mother! He was an emotionally traumatized little kid who watched his mom die right before his eyes! Then someone comes along and says "Well she was a stupid Longneck too!" You expect Littlefoot to just sit down and talk about it with her?! HA!

WeirdRaptor brought up another good point: Littlefoot tried to end the fight. He tried to walk away but of course Cera has to get the final hit in when all Littlefoot was trying to do was walk away. And then near the end of the movie, Littlefoot actually welcomes her back with open arms(Err...paws). If I were Littlefoot, I probably wouldn't have been so quick to accept her back. In fact, she should have been very damn grateful that he was so willing to put up with all the abuse she gave him. CERA was the immature one, not Littlefoot.

DarkHououmon · **Reply #54 on:** December 10, 2009, 06:53:53 PM

I think both of them were at fault. I was not justifying Cera's comment about Littlefoot's mother. In my comment I was simply stating that Littlefoot started the fight, not Cera. I also feel that both had acted pretty immaturely. While I'm not blaming Littlefoot for snapping, I agree with CT that his reaction was still immature. Cera's immaturity comes from her making an insult without thinking about it and not taking it back as well as making a final attack that wasn't necessary.

All in all, I'd say neither of them can take the full blame for the fight, but neither are completely innocent either. They both made mistakes that caused the fight to escalate and resolve to how it did in the movie. I don't think it's fair to pin the whole rap on Cera when it was Littlefoot who made the first move, and I don't think it's fair to blame it entirely on Littlefoot since Cera had touched a sensitive topic.

babidikrakenguard · **Reply #55 on:** December 11, 2009, 02:09:08 AM

Words can still inflict a great deal of pain on another person and words can also be another form of attacking. It was Cera who delivered the first blow: By calling Littlefoot's Mother a Stupid Longneck. Think about it, you would do the same if someone called your mother a stupid longneck(Well, not really a stupid longneck, but.. you know what i mean

) I know i would have the same reaction as Littlefoot.. Besides, he didn't attack Cera right away. He told her to take it back twice. And the last blow Cera did was really uncalled for. On another note, Littlefoot was probably defending his Mother. Bad enough we never hear her say "Im Sorry" once. She might have, but it might not have shown it but if she did they should have shown it and she doesn't seem the type to say im sorry that easily.

As for the End of the Movie, im a bit surprised at that too. Sure at the end of the movie they might have become friends but i dont see how in the first movie they would become best of friends. Specially after that..

Paradise Bird · **Reply #56 on:** December 11, 2009, 05:24:12 AM

I had felt the pain of words before but no more. I like to see how well people use them instead to try me on.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #57 on:** December 11, 2009, 07:10:11 AM

While I agree that Littlefoot isn't completely blameless for how it turned out, I'm a whole lot more forgiving to his side of the argument. Words can be very powerful, which is why the saying "the pen is mightier than the sword" exists. I agree with the sentiment that words can be another form of attack, and any small child would take the bait, especially a traumatized one who is just holding it together. While one can say Littlefoot also could have used words, you have to remember they would fallen on deaf ears and a sensative spot had just been hit.

Also, to whoever made the comment about "Cera was tired of following someone whose methods were proving fruitkess". I take it I'm supposed to be sympathetic to Cera just because the trip was long? The gang knew it was going to be a long journey.

Pangaea · **Reply #58 on:** December 11, 2009, 12:06:24 PM

Quote from: WeirdRaptor,Dec 11 2009 on 06:10 AM

Also, to whoever made the comment about "Cedra was tired of following someone whose methods were proving fruiting". I take it I'm supposed to sympathetic to Cera just because the trip was long? The gang knew it was going to be a long journey.

*ahem* That was me, and with all due respect, I believe you misunderstood my point. I was not appealing for sympathy for Cera, but attempting to explain the emotional circumstances that led her to make that comment about Littlefoot's mother.

Look at the situation from Cera’s perspective: She is following an individual she barely knows, of species she has been taught not to associate with, to a place she has never heard of, following directions that were given to him by someone else, in the hopes of finding her family again. It doesn’t sound very promising, but it’s better than aimlessly wandering a wasteland stalked by Sharptooth. After enduring an escalating series of hardships, however, the prospect of continuing to follow this leader becomes considerably less appealing. Eventually, she decides that she’s had enough, and wants to leave to find her own way, but when she attempts to do so, he gets in her way and tries to stop her. In her position, wouldn’t you be angry, too?

Cera’s comment may have been much more personally hurtful, but from her point of view, Littlefoot was being overly pushy in trying to keep her from leaving the group, with his only argument being that his mother told him to go the way he was leading them. Cera already has a contemptuous opinion of longnecks in general, and for all we know, she isn’t even aware that Littlefoot’s mother is dead. (She saw her being wounded, but that does not equate to knowing that she died.)

I do not deny that Cera’s comment towards Littlefoot’s mother was insensitive, to say the least, but I don’t think she should be vilified for making it either. I reiterate my previous assertion that I do not blame either Littlefoot or Cera for behaving the way they did.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #59 on:** December 11, 2009, 12:13:07 PM

I don't agree with some of your points.
Cera had heard of the Great Valley. If she hadn't, then Littlefoot told her about it offscreen because I don't recall her ever asking about it or having to be told about it. After all, her dad was heading there, too. He probably would have told her where they were going as well as the trip being long and dangerous from the beginning.