The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => General Land Before Time => Topic started by: brekclub85 on June 18, 2011, 03:58:13 PM
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Though I do like the LBT sequels, I can sort of understand the critique that they weren't as serious/dark as the original LBT.
Like the topic title says, do you think any of the sequels could have been with the same more serious tone that the first one had while still keeping the same basic plotlines?
IMO, The Mysterious Island I think could have been as serious as the first 1 with a few tweaks. The first portion or so of the movie works just fine, with the valley losing all of the green food, and the dinosaurs having to go into the Mysterious Beyond.
Now for the portion of the movie occurring on the island, had they perhaps given more focus on Chomper, and maybe go more into his mind, and imply that him choosing to not try to eat his friends wasn't such an easy choice and that he might be conflicted between his friendships and his instincts could have been an interesting conflict.
Do you guys have any thoughts on this?
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I have to agree. It would have been pretty easy to make them darker.
as you say with number 5, it seems like a pretty serious, almost dark movie, until they run into Chomper. After that, it's clearly kiddy.
And as you say, if they had delved a bit deeper into Chomper and his thoughts, it could have been pretty serious. As far as I can tell from the real version, there is only one brief time when we get a glimpse at him struggling with his carnivorous nature (when he is apparently tempted to take a bit out of Littlefoot's leg). So, if his conflict had been the main conflict of the second act, it could have been a pretty serious film.
Another way they could have made it a bit darker is very simple: have the villains actually DO something villainous! When you think about it, most of the time the villain's evil is simply threatening. There are only a few times when the villains actually do something (such as when Pterano kidnaps Ducky, or when Dil almost devours her). A prime example is Hyp Nod and Mutt. Outside of threaten the kids, they do very little that is villainous. In fact, in number III, Topsy is almost more of a villain than them, with the way he tries to maintain order in the valley by taking control. If they had concentrated more on him instead of the bullies, he could have become the antagonist, and that would have been really interesting.
A few other examples of ways are the following:
As opposed to having the characters always narrowly avoid injury, or shrug it off in seconds, actually injure them a few times! I'm not talking copious blood or anything (though that would up the darkness a considerabel notch), just...you know, have character actually react to being injured, like limping, passing out, etc.
A simple change of the colour scheme. The first sequels were okay with their colour schemes, though they could do with making the pallette a bit darker. But the computer sequels (7 and onwards) were very brightly coloured, which makes them really stand out. If they just kept with the earth-colours/pastelle palette of the original sequels, it could have worked really well (In fact, I'd go so far as to say that this is a prominent reason that most people say that they thought the first few sequels were good, but the rest sucked). One thing they do get right though, is the colour changes for mood: such as reddening during a dramatic violent scene, or suchlike. Of course, this can be overdone (The Pagemaster is a good example), but if they used it more, it would certainly make them more imposing and dramatic.
Another easy example is the songs. You can basically separate the songs into 2 categories: The ballads and the sillies. (with a few exceptions). If they had just made a few more serious songs, that weren't ballads, maybe fans would have taken the songs more seriously.
I'm sure I'll think of more ideas, but I'll turn it over to you guys
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First, remove most of the songs (arguing which, would, however, cause a lot of quarell here).
LBT II could have been made darker as well. For example, when the Gang was rescued from the mud, their parents were mad at them and they all got memorable lectures at home. However, these were only retold latter by the main characters.
I think it would be very educational of one of these lectures were actually shown. Topsy's lecture would probably not be a good choice, but Mrs. Flyer's, Ducky's parents' and Littlefoot's granparents' would. I would especially like to see what Ducky went through, as her account of the lecture suggests there was a lot of gesticulation involved (Finger points at head: "Put it into your silly head, you're not an adult!"). It would be very good if the adults first show anger with what the kids have done, and then express their parental worriness and soften at the end of the lecture. It would resemble a real life situation.
It would be also "nice" if Ozzy and Strut were made into real crooks, being very rude and taunting with the Gang, and downright scary in their intentions (they don't kill anyone, however).
A much darker change could be made as well. Simply, have the egg from Ducky's nest destroyed in an accident. The Gang still finds Chomper's egg, and brings it to Ducky's nest, only to see that the egg they looked for is gone. This will be a hard blow for the Gang, especially for Ducky. This causes resentment towards unhatched Chomper. Littlefoot however maintains his composure and protects the egg, arguing with an angry Cera that it isn't the egg's fault for everything that's happened (Ducky and Spike wallow in sadness, and Petrie comforts them). Littlefoot still takes care of young Chomper, but we also get the opportunity to see his internal struggle over what he is doing (remembering his mother's fate), especially because the rest of the Gang doesn't want to have anything to do with Chomper, but they still remain considerate enough not to tell on Littlefoot. Ducky remains especially confrontational to Chomper for quite some time. However, in the end the rest of the Gang accepts Chomper, but only a few moments before he leaves the Great Valley. Some friendships are not meant to be, says the narrator.
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Well in my opinion I think when they added some blood to a couple of movies that is a bit dark for a kids movie to have. But managed to have a G Rating Shocking. Even tho a lot of the sequels did suck but they could have made them a bit darker somewhat. I thought the third was a little dark sorta. Not really tho. Yeah the first movie was very dark for a kids movie. Wow death of his mother and some other parts was pretty dark. So they should have made them dark. Since kids back then where old in the 90's and could have dealt with more of a darker story line in those other movies.
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The only LBT sequel that had blood, to my knowledge, was LBT 5. The original only had blood in a shadow (when Littlefoot's mom was attacked) I believe.
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The only LBT sequel that had blood, to my knowledge, was LBT 5. The original only had blood in a shadow (when Littlefoot's mom was attacked) I believe.
And VERY brief shots of the open wound on her back, either shown as a red patch of skin, or in one shot, the same red patch, but with peeled skin...but that's about it.
And yes, the only time a character has properly bled onscreen was in the fight between Chomper's parents and the gigantosaurus. I have to admit, first time I saw that, I was pretty surprised. It was pretty full on, with no discretion shots or anything (In fact, it even had a closeup in the first slash!), visible flecks of blood, and bloodstained claws!
There was that shot in the fight between the Lone Dinosaur and the Meanest Sharptooth in the beginning of LBT 6, but this was a strange case of a visible cut (complete with closeup as the cut is being made), but no blood.
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In regards to the songs,
the first American Tail and All Dogs go to Heaven movies both had songs, but both movies still are regarded as dark, Don Bluth classics. I don't think that songs shouldn't have been in the movies at all, but maybe they should have better written and fit into the themes/plots better, and not be so "kiddish."
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In regards to the songs,
the first American Tail and All Dogs go to Heaven movies both had songs, but both movies still are regarded as dark, Don Bluth classics. I don't think that songs shouldn't have been in the movies at all, but maybe they should have better written and fit into the themes/plots better, and not be so "kiddish."
Agreed. I know alot of people compain about the songs, but like it or not, it's a part of the Land Before Time now.
But like I said previously, if they had made more variety, rather than just the slow, ballad songs and the bouncy, silly songs. In fact, I think Standing Tough is the only exception to that rule. It's not slow and peaceful, but it's trying to be serious.
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Not all the song in the Land Before Time Sequels where awful. A lot of them where actually good and worth listening to. And all of these song's hold a place to the series and our hearts. And they're very catchy and good. Some of them where awful but where worth a listen/
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Not all the song in the Land Before Time Sequels where awful. A lot of them where actually good and worth listening to. And all of these song's hold a place to the series and our hearts. And they're very catchy and good. Some of them where awful but where worth a listen/
I'm not saying they aren't. I agree that the vast majority of the songs are pretty good, with the ballads usually being charming and heartfelt, and the quirky songs usually being fun and catchy (In fact, I have several on my ipod). I'm just saying that they could have afforded to make a few serious ones, rather than just happy ones and ballad-esque ones.
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Yeah I hear you on that. Like some moments in the movies where serious and they could have made the song more serious in stead of a happy go lucky song. So yeah a lot of those song's could have been more serious in stead of fun and funny. So I see your complaints about most of the song's. The mood of the song;s could have been more darker in some ways.
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I'd say the LBT sequels should have been made darker to resemble the original movie's style. But alas, we live in times when cartoons for children are supposed to look as colorful as possible. :(
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^ I actually find today's cartoons to be more disturbing than original LBT (have you ever seen CatDog?). The LBT franchise is in fact an exception to the rule, regarding darkness (weirdness actually).
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Some of the sequels where Horrible. The CGI Mixed with with regular Animation was horrible and not needed. Hence the reason why I hated a lot of the sequels.
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^ I actually find today's cartoons to be more disturbing than original LBT (have you ever seen CatDog?). The LBT franchise is in fact an exception to the rule, regarding darkness (weirdness actually).
Thing is, there are alot of different forms of darkness in cartoons. Here are the main three forms:
1. Edge- This is snarky, snide humour, almost bordering on insult comedy, as well as occasonal innuendoes, media references, etc. Some of the later sequels occasionally begin to sneak into this, such as:
Loofah: But we gotta go to lead our herd.
Doofah: They'd be lost without us!
(beat)
Petrie: (He and Ducky look to Cera) You... not gonna say something?
Cera: Maybe later.
2. Surreality- This is when a cartoon can be considered too much for younger viewers simply because of how absolutely off the wall crazy it is. Whether the storylines are completely bizarre, the animation is crazy, things are left unexplained, no backstories for weird characters, etc...Case in point, Ren and Stimpy, Catdog, Hey Arnold... heck, any Nicktoon that isn't Rugrats or Doug.
3. Just plain darkness. This is probably the simplest best form of darkness in cartoons. This is when it is simply not cheery, not pleasent, but that is simply because the environment is harsh and unforgiving, the tone is grim and melancholy, it's possibly violent and even gory, and deals with pretty serious situations. A great example is The Secret of NIMH. No media references, no snarky humour, no comic relief (aside from Jeremy, and he was just a klutz with a funny voice), just plain darkness. The first LBT is very this too. Harsh, bleak landscapes, some nasty characters, no snarkiness, no media references
And, in response to Coyote_A_: Alas, 'tis the curse of the Animation Age Ghetto, wherein every executive in charge of animation and producing animated media believes that it always has to be marketed to kids, or be made to be possible to market to kids (LBT is another great example, with Lucas and Spielberg mutilating the original cut to get a G rating. In my opinion, the greatest honour an animated family film can have is a PG rating!)
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Some of the cartoons we watched as a kid where very dark and creepy. Like the Sven Hoek Episode was the most darkest cartoon I ever saw. And it was very violent as well. The Land Before Time Series where not really dark. The first one yes. The others kinda but the hid it quite well.
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4 could have played up the fact the Grandpa Longneck was dying.. and have ali and littlefoot trapped together while facing dil and ichy
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Yeah true that part was a little bit dark. Grandpa was sick and dying. But survived.
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I agree, that the Land of the Mists was a somewhat gloomy place and even a little scary. But nothing as scary as a barren death valley the gang ventured through in the original movie. That desert had the word "despair" written all over it. :)
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Personally I would have liked for some more "darkness" in the sequels. Now this doesn't mean that I would want them to get rid of all songs (while admittedly with some songs I really think they would be no loss there are also some which I would sorrwly miss), but already it would help to give a little more attention to the "dark stuff" which exists in the sequels but is never ever acknowledged by the characters. There is for example the extreme taboo on mentioning Littlefoot's mother (or any of the other disappearing relatives for that matter). Perhaps they felt it was too hot an iron to touch, but during the whole story with Chomper it comes almost as a surprise that at no point Cera says anything to the effect that she is wondering why Littlefoot (after loosing his mother to a sharptooth) would develop so paternal feelings for Chomper. This is even more striking given the fact that the return of the Chomper... pardon, the Mysterious Island actually was the first sequel to make reference about Littlefoot's mother, but stopped at drawing any line between this and the obvious link to the current story.
But even without this most difficult dark element there would be plenty of missed oportunities for the "postitive" (for quality of story) kind of dark elements in the story. Take LBT 2 and 3's views at the Mysterious Beyond for example. There's a group of little kids wondering through a landscaple littered with (almost made up of) corpses of other dinosaurs of all kinds. This would be kind of disturbing to kids (unless we assume LBT dinosaur kids' psychology to work much more different from that of human kids than the movies otherwise suggest). The most important thing however which they should have never done was to make the sharpteeth harmless kids toys rather than an actual thread. They started with LBT 2 already. Tripping a sharptooth with a vine, Ducky kicking the sharptooth's nose etc. are taking a bit of the bite outh of the sharptooth. But to be fair in LBT 2 there were moments were Chomper's parents did come across as a real threat to the kids. In many of the later movies sharpteeth have been reduced to drooling idiots that will be stopped by pretty much anything and never seem to pose much of a threat. When in those movies the kids are screaming and running away from some sharptooth that will be snowballed, tickled into submission, or send to any other undignified end you don't really feel any kind of worry for the kids live anymore.
In LBT 9 and some moments of the TV series we had scenes where a character was presumed to be death. Obviously the character in question was saved (and there was a degree of explanation on how the character in question got away), but still those scenes were emotionally quite powerful and I see a lot of potential to work such stuff out to good ends in a story.
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I agree, that the Land of the Mists was a somewhat gloomy place and even a little scary. But nothing as scary as a barren death valley the gang ventured through in the original movie. That desert had the word "despair" written all over it. :)
And yet at times, the barren wasteland is strangely beautiful. I dunno, maybe it's just me; I kinda have a thing for big empty landscapes.
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If I could take control of LBT, the first thing I would do is bring Pterano back...then I'll make more episodes, expand them to at least an hour. Yeah, the series need alot more villains other than sharpteeth, kay? I would also bring back some of the villains and maybe make up new ones.
I would also have more dramatic scenes and more epic scenes. I would love to have Sierra return and have revenge on the gang and Pterano, hearing Sierra's plan for revenge, forgets all about his banishment and comes back to the Great Valley to protect his nephew...
Or sumthin like that...
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Actually, looking at the series again, I do notice that there are several rather...well, maybe not dark, but certainly not kiddy, moments that most kids wouldn't get.
For example, most younger people see the whole Tinysauruses thing as a reference to exterminating pests and suchlike. But when I look at it, I just think: Holocaust and KKK-lynching. Heck, they even blatantly say that the reason they're getting rid of them is because they're different and "anything that's different is dangerous!".
Not to mention the number of skeletons that litter the series. They mostly downplay this in the later sequels, where the characters may come across the odd bone and sometimes a whole skeleton, but look at the earlier ones. You got whole sets that look just like the Elephant Graveyard from the Lion King! Heck, you even got Hyp Nod and Mutt walking across a gigantic set of ribs at one point! Granted skeletons aren't exactly gory or graphic, but you still have to remember, they are the remnants of a corpse, a cadaver, a dead thing!
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You got whole sets that look just like the Elephant Graveyard from the Lion King!
That's what the Mysterious Beyond looked like in the second movie. After the gang were caught in the rockslide they found themselves in a place that had the word "death" written all over it. Now, compare it to later sequels such as the 6th or 7th. The Mysterious Beyond is just an enormous barren territory. Depressing maybe, but not as scary.
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I wanted to see the last LBT movie without the Yellowbellies.
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You got whole sets that look just like the Elephant Graveyard from the Lion King!
That's what the Mysterious Beyond looked like in the second movie. After the gang were caught in the rockslide they found themselves in a place that had the word "death" written all over it. Now, compare it to later sequels such as the 6th or 7th. The Mysterious Beyond is just an enormous barren territory. Depressing maybe, but not as scary.
And compare it to the 9th film, where the Mysterious Beyond is full of life. :huh:
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I'm sure there are plenty of things that could have been done with the sequels to make them a little more darker, but there are many things to take into consideration. Aside from these movies, the only other big name franchise that was releasing movies involving dinosaurs was Jurassic Park (unless I'm forgetting something). For obvious reasons, Jurassic Park is not a family-friendly franchise, but there were no other movies related to dinosaurs out beside the Land Before Time. Universal had to tailor something to a more approachable audience, and because Jurassic Park was doing so successful at being the darker, intense franchise, that left Land Before Time.
Another thing to take into consideration is the competition. For obvious reasons, Universal's main competition is Disney (at least in my eye), so it's only natural to look at what the competition does well and attempt to imitate it. Disney excels at creating family-friendly franchises that blends the right amount of edge/darkness, so of course Universal would attempt that with one of its largest franchises. Unfortunately, it seems like Universal couldn't quite get the right mix with LBT.
Could things have been done differently? Of course they could have, but it would have been very difficult considering the circumstances.
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But there were no other movies related to dinosaurs out beside the Land Before Time.
There were the Carnosaur movies. The first movie came out about a month before the first Jurassic Park movie. The carnosaur series is even darker than the Jurassic Park series. Every movie has included r-rated gore and violence, even the two spin-offs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnosaur_(series) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnosaur_(series))
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There was a lot they could have done to make these movies darker. Make the stories darker added a little bit more violence.
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as you say with number 5, it seems like a pretty serious, almost dark movie, until they run into Chomper. After that, it's clearly kiddy.
I couldn't agree more. The first half of movie 5 was great, but then it turned just sour afterwards. When you made that comment about 5 were you implying that you, like I, really loved the first half of 5 but hated the second? (not even the blood in the second half could save it from being kiddie)
Anyways, I think movie 9 could have been way darker. 2-4 were dark enough, 6 and 8 couldn't have been made darker they were so bad, same goes for 7, but not 9.
Ah, 9...something about this one was different. 6-8 mainly felt like crap, but 9...felt like a beautiful land before time film hidden under layers and layers of godawful animation and CGI. It was mostly made up of sunny, kid friendly scenes, which were usually livable, enjoyable, and even touching, but some of which were pure preschool crap, mainly the "Imaginary Friends". Yet there was one particular occasion when the film strayed from this territory: the scene with the lioplerudon---set in the lake at night in the pouring rain and ending with Mo seemingly sacrificing himself---felt like something out of an entirely different film, it was so different from the rest of the film. This here shows that the films definitely could be edgier and universal is definitely holding back. The ending was so beautiful, of the gang saying goodbye to Mo and going home, and making it back to the valley, and reuniting with their parents as the sun sets. This ending just gets me, and as I watch it I think how this could have been the end---how this would have actually made a good finale, with all the movie 1 connections, and how I feel as I watch the edning that I'm seeing the characters return home for the last time, and the ending line giving that feeling of "Oh, this series is over, but there's a whole lot more out there yet to be discovered." That, and LBT 9 was the last movie I really watched, prior to getting back into it this year. I have a whole topic on this called, "Should LBT 9 HAVE BEEN THe end?" But no one's responded to it yet.
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and have ali and littlefoot trapped together while facing dil and ichy
I really like that idea...but would it have worked? I can't remember exactly what happened (I haven't seen 4 in forever) but I don't see why they wouldn't have done that if it did work. It sounds like a really good idea.
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^ They needed Ali to lead the others to the cave where Littlefoot was trapped. Also they probably needed them to be separated to allow for some character development with Ali overcomming some of her racism.
But would it have been darker anyway if Littlefoot (rather than being trapped alone (not quite alone with Archie coming along) and uncertain whether or not Ali was death or hurt) had been trapped along with Ali?
One thing I notice about this part of LBT 4 is that both Littlefoot and Ali seem to presume that the other one is relatively save of the other side of the rockslide when for all they know the other one could have been burried right under it.
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So basically that couldn't have worked.
I wonder why someone suggested it then.
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But would it have been darker anyway if Littlefoot (rather than being trapped alone (not quite alone with Archie coming along) and uncertain whether or not Ali was death or hurt) had been trapped along with Ali?
I don't know why someone suggested it, seeing as it wouldn't have worked out nor would it make it darker in any way. Before realizing it wouldn't work I thought it would make it better, yes, but not darker.
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Even though I liked the previous ones as well, I think I read on a web site that some critics were panning the first four LBT sequels for following the same type of process. I never really noticed anyway. I think it was good the change from so called 'seriousness' (I think it's more the lighting/colors and the group learning more often). It gives the first four sequels an almost immortal appearance. Like they're always there. The other ones are still just as great. Well, number six was kind of weird, but 7-11 and I guess 12 do were all worthy (9 maybe not as much as you'd believe though. But good TV movie.)
It's kind of sad the memories you can have by watching certain movies.
I had gone to my parents' friends' house in Florida (it was vacation from North Carolina). The dad we had met long before when we lived in the same neighborhood and he helped with the weekly gameday. He was real nice. We went out to Blockbuster and got some food at the convenience store. The girls and my sister and other brother watched another movie. But me, my brother and Allen (that's his name. was in his mid 40's.) watched what we picked out: The Land Before Time IX: Journey to Big Water. He said he had never seen LBT before. He liked it at the end. We left later on that day.
Flash forward 2 years later (I think). My mom comes into our rooms sniffling. She says Allen has passed away of a heart-attack while mowing someone's else's backlawn. It was so sad :(((
Now, I will always remember him whenever I watch that movie.
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A simple change of the colour scheme. The first sequels were okay with their colour schemes, though they could do with making the pallette a bit darker. But the computer sequels (7 and onwards) were very brightly coloured, which makes them really stand out. If they just kept with the earth-colours/pastelle palette of the original sequels, it could have worked really well (In fact, I'd go so far as to say that this is a prominent reason that most people say that they thought the first few sequels were good, but the rest sucked). One thing they do get right though, is the colour changes for mood: such as reddening during a dramatic violent scene, or suchlike. Of course, this can be overdone (The Pagemaster is a good example), but if they used it more, it would certainly make them more imposing and dramatic.
Another easy example is the songs. You can basically separate the songs into 2 categories: The ballads and the sillies. (with a few exceptions). If they had just made a few more serious songs, that weren't ballads, maybe fans would have taken the songs more seriously.
We need more ballads and less sillies! :anger
Or even better, no songs at all.
But yeah, I totally agree with you about the colors of the earlier fims. The new ones are brighter and feel modern. The original felt timeless, the first three felt contemporary but not overly modern, 5 and 6 were maybe a little too bright, 7's colors were too thick, 8 and 9's were pretty bad, 10-13's were GOD AWFUL. out
I don't know if anyone felt this way, but like as Doug said about "Bambi" in his review, I really felt like I was in nature in the earlier sequels. But I barely feel that way by 12.
If they ever start making the movies again they'll need to bring back the old animation. It is a must.
P.S., would you consider boring a "Big Water" in 5 a ballad or a silly? I mean, it displays the gang's fears and isn't as dumb as "Friends for dinner" and is quite slow, but does all thag make it a ballad?
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I agree, that the Land of the Mists was a somewhat gloomy place and even a little scary. But nothing as scary as a barren death valley the gang ventured through in the original movie. That desert had the word "despair" written all over it.
The Land of Mists was spook-tacular! It's my favorite guest location in the series and if I could choose one place that they would have to go through in a hypothetical future movie, it would be the Valley of Mists. It's scary, mysterious, gloomy, and in a very dark way, beautiful---exactly the kind of stuff I like in movies and music. ;) I wouldn't even mind paying the price of seeing Tickles again---and to be fair, we've had way worse.
I also thought the desert with "despair" written over it was pretty cool but we've visited that a few other times I think and if I had to choose between the two it would be the Valley of Mists.
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QUOTE (Allicloud @ Jul 13 2011, 12:11 AM)
You got whole sets that look just like the Elephant Graveyard from the Lion King!
That's what the Mysterious Beyond looked like in the second movie. After the gang were caught in the rockslide they found themselves in a place that had the word "death" written all over it. Now, compare it to later sequels such as the 6th or 7th. The Mysterious Beyond is just an enormous barren territory. Depressing maybe, but not as scary.
I would like to think of he mysterious beyond and the elephant graveyard as seperate things; I'm not really a fan of the lion king but I really love movie 2 and it's sequence in the mysterious beyond is one of the best action sequences in the franchise!
And a correction: it doesn't appear in the 6th. By the 9th it's barely even depressing, seeing as there's grass growing and a diplodocus mother is raising her babies out there. Crazy, huh? :blink:
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as you say with number 5, it seems like a pretty serious, almost dark movie, until they run into Chomper. After that, it's clearly kiddy.
I really like the first half of movie 5 but really hate the second half. I'm sorry to those of you who feel otherwise, but I strongly feel this way and hope it's okay with you guys.
But then, as far as I know, most people on here are teens and young adults, so most of you guys probably like the dark, serious tone of movie 5 better.
But like I said previously, if they had made more variety, rather than just the slow, ballad songs and the bouncy, silly songs. In fact, I think Standing Tough is the only exception to that rule. It's not slow and peaceful, but it's trying to be serious.
Standing Tough is one of my faovirte LBT songs. I feel the same way about it that a lot of people apparently do about "Very Important Creature". I think it's very underated and that we need more songs like these.
I agree, that the Land of the Mists was a somewhat gloomy place and even a little scary.
"Was?" :unsure:
Please don't say that. It is. And for all these reasons, it's my absolute favorite guest location in LBT and thinks it's a shame they don't go through it more. If they make another sequel I wanna see it again!!!
I'm sorry if I'm so obsessed, but come on, it's dark, mysterious, scary, ominous, and everything that I think makes books, movies and music pure awesome! :D
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Is that ok?! :unsure:
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What's OK? Thinking that the Land of Mists is a dark, ominous place that would be great to visit? Damn right it's OK! I wouldn't mind going there myself, albeit not alone under any circumstances.
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Thanks. As I said before, I think it's pure awesomeness and am infuriated that it has not been revisited once when the mysterious beyond appears like all the time and the big water appeared twice...but the second time rather briefly.
Either way I want to see it again and think they had so much potential to make the journey through it even longer and more darker. :smile
I agree, that the Land of the Mists was a somewhat gloomy place and even a little scary.
How can they use was? It still freakin' exists!
I mean the last shot we get in this awesome place is this:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/1fgsn5.png)
What??!! Not a cool overhead shot fading out to black?! Not a nice shot of the scenery? Not even a nice shot of the whole freakin' gang in the place? This is the last time we're ever gonna see this awesome place and this is how we say goodbye to it!!???? What!!!??? The?!!! Heck?!!!
I'm sorry, but that's who I am. I critique things.
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Now you're really overreacting.
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What's wrong with using the term "was"? They weren't saying the land of mists doesn't exist anymore. "Was" doesn't always indicate "not around anymore". I don't see why you reacted like that. Nobody here ever denied the land of mists not existing after LBT4.
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And quite frankly, I believe that this is among the kind of attitutes that can discourage people from giving responses in threads where you are demanding them Bruton.
We are talking of a fictional (as in not physically existing at any time) place in a fiction that is defined even by its very title as the land before time. Throwing such tantrums over the word was (a word that can also be used as a means to differentiate hypothethis from facts rather than differentiating present from past) is seriously over the top.
Quite frankly, personally I didn't find the land of mists so mysterious or scary a place at all. Perhaps there was just a bit too little time for the place to be sufficiently presented. We got a little mist (mist which I must point out was conspicuously absent after the mist had dones its job in getting Cera lost), we got a group of eggeaters (two of whom resembled Ozzy and Strut without any further indication that this was intentional) rushing past the gang and jumping into the water without visible reason or harmful intention, we got two domeheaded dinosaurs banging their heads against each other, we got some slimy centipode scaring Cera (but not posing any real danger whatsoever), we got Cera runing the risk of drowning (as she might do anywhere else in a river if she settles for an edge over the river as a place to stay), we got a friendly, fluffy mouse (not exactly scary), there is one longnecked sharptooth which conveniently attacks the poor sighted crocodile and her better sighted bird friend who more likely than not are from the land of temporarry mists.
Don't get me wrong, I love LBT 4, but for a movie titled "Journey through the mists" we saw rather little of the mist or the land named after it and in terms of scary places I must say that the Mysterious Beyond of the original or the early sequels came across as at the very least as intimidating (if not more so).
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Alright but I'm still disapointed that was the last frame we'll ever get in the place...is kinda weak
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You got whole sets that look just like the Elephant Graveyard from the Lion King!
That's what the Mysterious Beyond looked like in the second movie. After the gang were caught in the rockslide they found themselves in a place that had the word "death" written all over it. Now, compare it to later sequels such as the 6th or 7th. The Mysterious Beyond is just an enormous barren territory. Depressing maybe, but not as scary.
I'd be lying if I said I liked this comparision. I don't really like "The Lion King" and the trek into the Mysterious Beyond in the second movie is one of my favorite action sequences in all of LBT---not to mention be my 2nd favorite LBT film. That part is perfect for watching late on a pitch black night. ;)
So I think both movies should be their own thing, since one might love one and dispise the other, making it a bit of a "broken base" comparision.
Also, it's not really even that depressing in the later sequels...I mean, in 7 we see it's green in places and in 6, well, it's not that bad either. And don't get me started on what it looks like in 9!
as you say with number 5, it seems like a pretty serious, almost dark movie, until they run into Chomper. After that, it's clearly kiddy.
I agree. I like the first half, and thought the second was a bit of a disgrace to it. Please don't bash me for thinking that. :unsure:
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But did that have to be the last shot in the place? Why? :cry
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Because that's what the creators decided on. They don't really need a deep reason. Showing them going back isn't really necessary. Showing more of the Land of Mists wasn't necessary after they found the flower. What would have been the point of seeing more when they already accomplished their goal and the antagonists defeated? What would the movie have benefited from showing scenes of the gang just walking through the Land of Mists?
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My happiness. Doing that would have accomplished my happiness cause I think that would have been awesome.
But as we have it---THIS as the last shot ever? Without even the whole gang?!
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Your happiness is not an important enough benefit for the directors to show more of the Land of Mists after they found the flower and beat Ichy and Dil. It wouldn't be good storytelling for them to continue walking through the mists, plus it would have wasted time. The movie was already reaching the end.
With storytelling, you should not make scenes longer than they need to be, and you should not add unnecessary scenes that are nothing more than an area exploration of an area we already know about. This is like an author describing the same exact location twice; it's not necessary and it becomes redundant.
Ultimately, showing more of the Land of Mists is completely pointless once they find the flower and Dil and Ichy were defeated. By this point, there's not much left in the movie. After this, the best thing to do is for them to wrap up the movie so it doesn't become too long. That means excluding details that are not important, such as showing more of the land they are in.
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But the movie was already pretty short as it was.
And why just show two members if you're gonna make that the LAST FREAKING SHOT?
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It wouldn't be good storytelling for them to continue walking through the mists
This is the Journey Through the Mists.
The least you could do is include everyone. And make it a good shot of the Land of Mists.
I'd love more scenes of them there, but I'd still be fine with the amount we have if they had a good last shot of the place.
The closing shot of movie 4 itself...Grandpa Longneck's side filling the camera? :blink:
I don't think so.
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Even journeys must come to an end. Otherwise the entire LBT saga would have to have permanently in the Land of Mists and the initial mission of finding the Great Valley would be made completely redundant. Also, point to note, the departure from the Land of Mists was not the end of the story. In a lot of cases, we see the gang all huddled together in the final scene of the LBT movies as a signing of their friendship and overcoming of unfavourable odds. I'd say that that scene was a focus moment between Spike and Ducky because Spike performed a feat he's never accomplished before (not in the proper sense of the term 'talking' as we'd define it anyway) as well as Ducky being saved by Spike's yell thus Ducky has 2 counts to be happy. The close up of the pair of them accentuates their closeness and bond as brother and sister (adopted) which is actually quite a nice moment if you consider it in that light.
Btw, the closing of LBT4 where Grandpa strafed in front of the camera is called a passing cutaway. It's used in plenty of other films and tv shows as a way of transitioning from one scene to another, in this case, to end the film. It's not the only time it's occurred in LBT. As an example, in #7, after Cera has her little rant about always being at the back of the line, Littlefoot's body is used to cutaway to the next scene where we see the gang actually traversing the canyon on the vine.
All these points are purely subjective and it's down to personal taste whether you like them or not. But one man's word is not absolute. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you don't like it or don't agree with what's been said, you don't have to. But you should still have respect and acknowledgement for what has been said and take on board the discussion. That's how discussions develop and move on. Brooding over a singular point just leads to tail chasing and conversations go nowhere. Greater acceptance is found in open mindedness.
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As far as the grass growing in the Mysterious Beyond... TBH the Mysterous Beyond always seemed to me to be rather like a label slapped on anything "beyond" (read: outside of) the Great Valley, rather than a specific isolated location. I'm not sure if they ever mention it as being distinct from other outside regions. Perhaps someone else can correct me on that if I'm wrong--I don't have the movies on hand to double-check.
I definitely think it would have been neat if they'd stayed true to the original color scheme, like Allicloud said. I never was able to put my finger on it before, but it did add a lot to change the ambience and overall flavor. Look at Mo, for instance... pretty sure his coloration was based on the Ophthalmosaurus from Walking With Dinosaurs, but they went and made him bright Sunny-D yellow. Yipes.
And for what Malte279 and Allicloud said about the skeletons... definitely. I mean, what about the scene in the first movie in the region with the tar pits? I seem to remember more than a few bones and more than a little screaming (generally from Cera). Sure they were younger then... but what about LBT V when they come across the Parasaurolophus skeleton and Ducky's mother tells her not to look... I can think of a few other instances as well. Seems like they just ignored the shock value at times when it was convenient, but at the price of consistency.
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Yeah I knew for a fact the Movie 1 was very dark for a kids movie. It had some frightening parts in it.
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In a lot of cases, we see the gang all huddled together in the final scene of the LBT movies as a signing of their friendship and overcoming of unfavourable odds.
But our final shot in this film isn't of the gang, it's Littlefoot and his grandparents; which is sad cause I prefer the former
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But like I said previously, if they had made more variety, rather than just the slow, ballad songs and the bouncy, silly songs. In fact, I think Standing Tough is the only exception to that rule. It's not slow and peaceful, but it's trying to be serious.
Major bump but I just thought I'd mention yu forgot Very Important Creature. Also the version of Big water in 5 I guess.
Also, Look For The Light seems to be another exception. It's not slow but it sounds like it takes itself seriously enough.
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I agree with many of the points that were brought up here already. While I enjoyed most of the sequels, I too feel that they could and should have been made darker. We get occasional glimmers of dark moments, but as Bruton said, it did feel like Universal was holding back. The sequels still had a lot of good character development to make up for it. But Littlefoot never went through the same struggle that he did in the original film, and I wish that he and the other members of the Gang had.
I don't think it would've been hard to make the films a bit grittier; the same basic plotlines could've still worked. And in fact, there's aspects of said plotlines that would lend themselves well to darker scenarios. Like in LBT 2 with the very concept of the egg-stealers and Chomper's parents, or in LBT 3 with the Great Valley facing a drought, or in LBT 5 with the whole dilemma of "Will Chomper turn on us?" Heck, even LBT 13 with the dinosaurs searching for Berry Valley, which parallels their original Great Valley journey from the first film. I could go on and on, but there's plenty of examples.
In particular I noticed that the concept of death is never really explored again, at least not to the same capacity. Certainly nothing like some of the gut-wrenching scenes we got in the original film. Aside from the occasional Sharptooth getting defeated, seeing the odd skeleton littered around, or the one-off flashback to Pterano's doomed herd, there were no more character deaths. Littlefoot's mother herself is seldom brought up. It's not that I feel characters needed to die off constantly, but at the same time I think there was some missed story potential there, and it could've made aspects of the sequels more intense and emotional. Especially because there are odd implications here and there; as Malte said earlier, cases of disappearing relatives, like with Cera's mother.
It's also an unfortunate symptom of why most of the Sharpteeth in the sequels didn't feel all that threatening or dangerous; after a while you just know that they're not really going to accomplish anything.
As for the songs, I don't think they needed to be taken out entirely, but I do think there could've been a bit less of them, or that they could've been made more serious and/or some of the sillier ones removed.
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Well that would have been an interesting touch but, since it was changed from the first movie the creators intended it to be aiming more toward Kids and the songs were as well more towards Kids, and making it darker would probably not be good for kids due to psychological fear, but it would be a bit interesting if it was done a bit darker but it might not be good to be jumpscared by the sharptooth for some people in general audiences that are more sensitive to that sort of thing :thinking
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The thing is, I feel that the original film did such a wonderful job at appealing to both children and adults. Not to say that the sequels inherently lack appeal to adults; this very forum is proof of that. But at the same time, I don't think making the sequels closer to the original film's tone would've sacrificed their appeal to kids.
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I haven't read your huge post to prevent spoilers on my part, but I'll chime in with my opinion on the matter.
I agree with you that having a darker tone for the sequels wouldn't sacrifice the appeal to kids. In fact, I'm pretty sure many of them would appreciate not being "babied" all the time with all of this child friendly content of sunshine, rainbows, and whatnot. In fact, many kid movies and cartoons back in the 90s and before had many adult elements in them, some very subtle, others more obvious. Some even had blood and alcohol in them, although brief. Of course, everyone's preferences are different and something to take into consideration, but now I feel as if they're too afraid to put these things in today's cartoons.
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That was one of the things that appealed to me about the original. For a children's film, it's surprisingly gritty, and darker than a lot of kids' movies made to this day. Watching it was a unique experience.
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I think with the earlier sequels (I'm going to estimate LBT 6 and before), it'd be quite easy to make them darker. Just remove the songs, amp up the scare factor of certain scenes a little, probably explore the themes a little more in-depth, and ta-da! I think you can also make LBT 7-10 darker as well, though you'd probably have to make some more drastic changes. LBT 11 and afterwards, though, is where you need to go back to the drawing board.
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I am probably in the minority, who actually prefers that LBTII-XIV are lighthearted. It made when sharpteeth show up more intense, but mainly most films are “The Joker” and “The Dark Knight” realism; which are rather dark and full of depressing undertones. TLBT is an escape from the dark world (film Noir) that has overtaken cinema and allows me to reconnect with that child nature inside of innocence.
What I would prefer is Bluth or a successor makes a new set of sequels that are darker follow ups to the Original. This way fans have the best of both worlds.
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For me it depends on the movie. Some work fine with a darker tone, while others are better as lighter movies. But generally, I like a balance of "not too light, not too dark." Most of my favourite movies fall within that range.
However, I find that a lot of children's and/or animated films tend to be more light-hearted by default. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, and there are plenty of animated films I enjoy. But still, I wish we could have more kids' films and cartoons that are closer to the tone and style of LBT 1.
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For me it depends on the movie. Some work fine with a darker tone, while others are better as lighter movies. But generally, I like a balance of "not too light, not too dark." Most of my favourite movies fall within that range.
However, I find that a lot of children's and/or animated films tend to be more light-hearted by default. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, and there are plenty of other animated films I enjoy. But still, I wish we could have more kids' films and cartoons that are closer to the tone of LBT 1.
Its ironic, for adults the default is dark and for children’s films & shows is light hearted. I agree that a balance is best, which LBTII got close to. If TLBT franchise is to be accessabile to kids who frankly watch “Strsnger Things,” “A Quiet Place,” and “IT to”; the Bluth path is going to be best. I also argue respectfully that TLBT will have to go down a Dreamworks or Pixar path to compete in animation and draw attention from the newer generations. While I personally love the style of TLBT, Bluth, and old Disney Studios (Lion King, and etc), I confess such animation is harder to sell these days.
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For me it depends on the movie. Some work fine with a darker tone, while others are better as lighter movies. But generally, I like a balance of "not too light, not too dark." Most of my favourite movies fall within that range.
I agree! :duckyhappy
Even though some animated movies nowadays are dismissed as being just for kids, it is possible to showcase some adult morals. It is indeed nice to have a movie that isn't completely light-hearted, but not an edgy flick. That balance resonates well for the broadest experience for all, much like how everyone can enjoy the original LBT.
However, I find that a lot of children's and/or animated films tend to be more light-hearted by default. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, and there are plenty of other animated films I enjoy. But still, I wish we could have more kids' films and cartoons that are closer to the tone of LBT 1.
Conversely, I understand the criticism that some children's movies are literally mindless dreck where the target demographic is kids and literally only kids (Minions, Emoji Movie, cough). In a sense, for adults us to enjoy the LBT sequels, we are considered a peripheral demographic that the writers never thought about when writing the yellowbellies, for instance.
All this makes me conclude that, really, unless there's a reboot, the sequels will never be as dark as the old films. But it's fine, the sequels stand fine as they are.
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For me it depends on the movie. Some work fine with a darker tone, while others are better as lighter movies. But generally, I like a balance of "not too light, not too dark." Most of my favourite movies fall within that range.
I agree! :duckyhappy
Even though some animated movies nowadays are dismissed as being just for kids, it is possible to showcase some adult morals. It is indeed nice to have a movie that isn't completely light-hearted, but not an edgy flick. That balance resonates well for the broadest experience for all, much like how everyone can enjoy the original LBT.
However, I find that a lot of children's and/or animated films tend to be more light-hearted by default. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, and there are plenty of other animated films I enjoy. But still, I wish we could have more kids' films and cartoons that are closer to the tone of LBT 1.
Conversely, I understand the criticism that some children's movies are literally mindless dreck where the target demographic is kids and literally only kids (Minions, Emoji Movie, cough). In a sense, for adults us to enjoy the LBT sequels, we are considered a peripheral demographic that the writers never thought about when writing the yellowbellies, for instance.
All this makes me conclude that, really, unless there's a reboot, the sequels will never be as dark as the old films. But it's fine, the sequels stand fine as they are.
For me it depends on the movie. Some work fine with a darker tone, while others are better as lighter movies. But generally, I like a balance of "not too light, not too dark." Most of my favourite movies fall within that range.
I agree! :duckyhappy
Even though some animated movies nowadays are dismissed as being just for kids, it is possible to showcase some adult morals. It is indeed nice to have a movie that isn't completely light-hearted, but not an edgy flick. That balance resonates well for the broadest experience for all, much like how everyone can enjoy the original LBT.
However, I find that a lot of children's and/or animated films tend to be more light-hearted by default. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily, and there are plenty of other animated films I enjoy. But still, I wish we could have more kids' films and cartoons that are closer to the tone of LBT 1.
Conversely, I understand the criticism that some children's movies are literally mindless dreck where the target demographic is kids and literally only kids (Minions, Emoji Movie, cough). In a sense, for adults us to enjoy the LBT sequels, we are considered a peripheral demographic that the writers never thought about when writing the yellowbellies, for instance.
All this makes me conclude that, really, unless there's a reboot, the sequels will never be as dark as the old films. But it's fine, the sequels stand fine as they are.
Well said. Few of the creators (Bluth excluded) realize that what you loved as child can stay with you to adulthood and that we continue to be fans. LBTXIIi is a case and point of your point that it was designed for kids only who love Illumination’s “Minions” and etc. i am glad we got a slight course correct with LBTXIV.