The Gang of Five
The forum will have some maintenance done in the next couple of months. We have also made a decision concerning AI art in the art section.


Please see this post for more details.

If the sequels were better

Ptyra · 11 · 1726

Ptyra

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 3183
    • View Profile
    • http://z8.invisionfree.com/The_Valley/index.php?
So, we have a ton of laments about some of the sequels.

Songs, for one thing. I honestly think they could have filled in A LOT more plot if the songs had not been included. And use of characters. I think that Littlefoot is almost ALWAYS experiencing/seeing the plot device in the first seven movies most of the time. The only time I think he really wasn't so huge of a character was in 12. Sure he's the main character, but he really steals the stage a lot. Here I go with using my favorite movie as an example XD !

If I were to re-write seven, I would make Petrie the central character. The whole Stone of Cold Fire phenomenon would bring his relationship with his uncle MUCH more to the test than the original story does.

The intro is pretty much the same. Instead of Littlefoot seeing the Stone of Cold Fire, it's Petrie and Ducky. Um...I guess Ducky and Petrie are staying with Spike while he has his midnight snacking? The story gets out. "You're crazy" happens. Enter the Rainbow Faces (who could seem slightly more alien). Instead of "Beyond the Mysterious Beyond", we would have the Rainbow Faces kinda poke at Mr. Threehorn's skeptical mind. Please include "Why not the Boring Beyond? Or the 'Ooo, There's-Nothing-Out-There-Of-Any-Interest-Of-Us-Beyond'?" They would have a little TALK that takes up less time than the song, and go straight into the Stone of Cold Fire.

Here comes Pterano. He might be a little bit creepier if he tries to get the Stone's location from his nephew and his nephew's friend XD . At the same time, when Rinkus and Sierra come around, he might be much more defensive of the children than originally.  

Cera has her suspicions about Pterano and she gets a little mean to Petrie about it...without really meaning to be extremely mean, she still upsets Petrie a little too much. Petrie has already gone crying to Pterano. He tells him the whole story-from the Stone's location to the terrible things Cera said about him. That night, Ducky overhears Pterano's plan as she tries  to find Petrie, pretty much like in the series. Not everything she hears is about Pterano becoming the leader, but "reversing what he did wrong". Sierra finds her and...takes her away. He then pretty much pressures Pterano into kidnapping her...that's not right DX . It's basically a "You really think we should leave the brat behind and spoil your plan?" thing. Petrie arrives just in time to see the trio taking Ducky away. He chases them and Rinkus gets a bit rougher than smacking Petrie away. Angry Pterano is angry.  

And then we have the same story/flashback as before. Now WE know what Pterano did wrong. Perhaps Cera's mother and siblings could have been in the same group that was attacked, so we could have more extent on why Tops hates him so much. Petrie's mother asks about the Stone's location because he knows too.

As the group decides to go after Pterano, we cut back to the fliers. They take a break to rest and Pterano tries to sneak Ducky back to the Great Valley the safest way for her to get back on her own. It ultimately fails when Sierra thinks she is running away. Somewhat the same as before, but we don't have Pterano trying to bribe her out. "We won't hurt you", indeed :lol .

The gang is reunited, and Petrie has his little breakdown.
Instead of "Good Inside", we cut it down right to:
Ducky: Oh no, he was very sad when the others dropped me, he was, he was.
Petrie: Really?
Ducky: Yes, yes. He said he was responsible for me.
Cera: *Responsible*!?
Ducky: Cera, not everyone is all bad.

And we cut to Pterano being a little mopey about what happened to Ducky. Sierra picks on him a little bit and he gets swatted. The kids are shown trying to climb down the mountain and Sierra snags Ducky. In the end, it is Pterano retaliates against Sierra to let Ducky go. Eventually, Sierra drops Ducky from a high place.
Sierra: Fine. I'll let her go *drop*
RESCUE FEST! *Benny Hill theme*
Petrie tries to save Ducky, but when he saves Ducky, Rinkus swats them both. Pterano gets p*ssed and swats Rinkus and saves Ducky and Petrie. Pterano and Sierra have a little fight and Pterano loses Ducky and Petrie. Petrie nearly drowns and DUCKY saves him *1812 Overture*. Then the rest of the kids do the saving. Rinkus and Sierra chase the kids. Pterano stops Rinkus and Sierra from chasing the kids and does the whole "I am the leader, I give the orders, you follow them."

Instead of "Very Important Creature", we REALLY see into Pterano's non-selfish side as he rats at Sierra for threatening the children.
Pterano: Those "over-grown eggs" just happen to be my nephew and his friends!
He broods on that a little bit, and Rinkus and Sierra plan their betrayal behind his back.

Most everything is the same from here on out. But the Rainbow Face's departure could be a bit more epic and Pterano and Petrie's good-bye could be less...rudely ended.

Another thing that would COMPLETELY change the story is that Petrie chases Pterano and his group after they kidnap Ducky. The rest of the group follow Petrie.  

Some basic ideas of what could have improved vol. 7 . We can expand on this and the other movies.

Boy, will 11 and 13 be fun to imagine an improvement on  :lol


Malte279

  • The Circle
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 15608
    • View Profile
    • http://www.ineinemlandvorunsererzeit.de.vu
It is funny sometimes just how different perceptions can be. :p
About many of the aspects you mentioned I would do pretty much the opposite if I was given the chance to create my version of LBT 7.
Quote
I think that Littlefoot is almost ALWAYS experiencing/seeing the plot device in the first seven movies most of the time.
This is one point I agree with and it would be a good thing to have more spotlight on the others in the movie. However, there was a good reason not to have Petrie or trusting Ducky see the Stone of Cold Fire. Pterano would have never had to talk Petrie into "spying" for him thereby creating the conflict of loyalties for poor Petrie which I found to be one of the more interesting aspects of LBT 7. However, there would have to be a good reason why Pterano doesn't just ask Littlefoot about it directly. In the movie he suggests going to seek the stone together, but there is no reason why (after Littlefoot's refusal to come along) he doesn't just say something along the lines: "You don't want to come along? Why, that's a pity but I am really interested in this. Can you tell me where it landed?"
Further more Pterano could have included the fact that if he did find the stone he might also be able to prove that Littlefoot had told the truth. I really don't see any convincing way in which Littlefoot could have just said "Nope, I won't tell you" unless the movie did not include that odd secretiveness of the grownups about Pterano.
For this really is a weak point of the movie. Apparently Cera's father had told Cera about why Pterano had been banned but she had just forgotten (so why not just ask him again?). And why on earth was anyone shy to tell the kids about Pterano's past? Fear that they couldn't handle it and get sleepless nights over it? Hardly plausible I think. I do like the idea of Cera's mother and / or siblings being with the group Pterano led to their doom, but this would require some background on why they would be with him but without Cera's Dad.
Quote
The story gets out. "You're crazy" happens. Enter the Rainbow Faces (who could seem slightly more alien). Instead of "Beyond the Mysterious Beyond", we would have the Rainbow Faces kinda poke at Mr. Threehorn's skeptical mind. Please include "Why not the Boring Beyond? Or the 'Ooo, There's-Nothing-Out-There-Of-Any-Interest-Of-Us-Beyond'?" They would have a little TALK that takes up less time than the song, and go straight into the Stone of Cold Fire.
Now there I think the movie would have needed a plausible explanation for why the entire Valley got upset about a single kid telling a story about a flying rock that did not look normal. If nobody believed him anyway why would there by such a huge interest in it that Littlefoot would be summoned to some kind of court of inquisition just to be told "you're crazy or a liar". It really doesn't make much sense. As for the rainbowfaces I would either try to cut them out entirely or else do all I can to make them come across NOT as aliens from outer space. This really was the main breach of a taboo which made LBT 7, in spite of its interesting plot devices, the first movie I had a serious problem with. I definitely would not have a movie created with anything so unrealistic like that "volcano elevator / lift" devised by them either and most definitely I would cut out the star trek beaming. As for the song Beyond the Mysterious Beyond however, I am not so sure if I would cut it out nor am I about very important creature. I think both songs worked out well to bring a message across that would otherwise have required some excessively long and boring and potentially awkward talk. In any case I would have tried to keep the rainbowfaces mysterious themselves if they were in "my version" of the movie.

...come to think of it, it might have been interesting if of all the characters Cera would have been the one to see the stone. She is tougher than the others and not likely to let anyone get away with calling her a liar or crazy and she might have been so eager to prove herself right that she might have even gone out on her own to find that stone if nobody else came along. I also see her more likely to give a grownup (Pterano) asking about the whereabouts of the stone a flat "no" than any of the others. Moreover I think it would be really funny to see the usually very down to earth Cera in a situation where everyone believes she was talking nonsense.

Quote
Here comes Pterano. He might be a little bit creepier if he tries to get the Stone's location from his nephew and his nephew's friend XD .
Again I would have done just the opposite. In the movie you could tell after the first few words he spoke that Pterano was not to be trusted. Gee, you didn't even need the first words, it was sufficient to see him during the scene in which the rainbowfaces told about the stone of cold fire to know that he was to be a crook. Why not make him a character who fools the audience as well as the kids? I really wouldn't mind him as a character who seems perfectly trustworthy until he strikes. Even good instincts can be fooled by a better pretender. If (as I suggested above) Cera had been the one to see the stone and giving Pterano a flat no over it I could imagine a rather funny scene with everyone else being abashed about Cera being so rude to that friendly uncle of Petrie's ;)
If Rinkus and Sierra were to be around it would be kind of interesting on getting a little more background on how come that these self-confident (Sierra) and sly (Rinkus) characters would submit to Pterano as a leader. In LBT 7 as we know it there was not much so awe inspiring about him to see why they would accept him as a leader. No matter what, I think the inspiring or leadership qualities which Pterano must have had (also to make the dinosaurs in the flashback follow him) should have been shown. I could imagine him holding a little speech or winning in a kind of speech duel in front of some others to show him as more inspiring and smarter than he came across in the movie as we know it.
Quote
As the group decides to go after Pterano, we cut back to the fliers. They take a break to rest and Pterano tries to sneak Ducky back to the Great Valley the safest way for her to get back on her own. It ultimately fails when Sierra thinks she is running away. Somewhat the same as before, but we don't have Pterano trying to bribe her out. "We won't hurt you", indeed
He wouldn't appear as much in command if he had to try to let Ducky escape secretly and failing in the attempt. Since they had no real reason to carry Ducky on with them I don't see why Pterano could not openly suggest that. Remember it was Rinkus in the movie to suggest to leave her behind which made the following pursuit of Ducky and the short recapture later on kind of unnecessary. What would they want from her anyway?
If (as suggested above) Cera had been the one to see the stone she might have told Ducky who might not have told the flyers at that time. This way they would have a reason to take her along (in the actual movie they did not have a good reason to abduct her in the first place. She would have told the others about the flyers' plans, but that was easy enough to figure out anyway).
I could also imagine an interesting plot device in the flyers breaking up at an early time. There could be three or four separate groups chasing after the stone. Rinkus and Sierra (angry about Pterano's refusal to use "their methods" to make Ducky talk), Pterano and Ducky (whom he might convince to tell him about the whereabouts of the stone by kindness and conviction), Cera (very eager to prove she was right she might have set out on her own even before any abduction of Ducky), and Petrie, Littlefoot and Spike who either might have gone with Cera or after her mostly intend on bringing Cera and Ducky home safely.
Quote
Petrie nearly drowns and DUCKY saves him *1812 Overture*.
Canon sound in LBT you mean? :blink:

But please don't get anything the wrong way that I said. I really like this idea of threads about how we would have changed the plots of given LBT movies. We might even end up with some good purely LBT fanfiction ideas and "what if?" scenarios from such threads. Thank you Ptyra :yes


Kor

  • The Circle
  • The Gang of Five
  • *
    • Posts: 30087
    • View Profile
Sounds like the 2 of you could very well work together to write an interesting alternate version of the 7th movie, and maybe some of the other lbt movies and tv episodes.


Ptyra

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 3183
    • View Profile
    • http://z8.invisionfree.com/The_Valley/index.php?
Quote from: Malte279,Jan 21 2010 on  03:47 AM
Quote
Petrie nearly drowns and DUCKY saves him *1812 Overture*.
Canon sound in LBT you mean? :blink:
Nah, I'm just expressing that Ducky is actually DOING something and saving someone, rather than being the damsel in distress for the umpteenth :lol

Those are some really interesting points you put up though. I never really thought about Cera seeing the stone. It does, in turn, make some very interesting plot material. If Mr. Threehorn may have had less shyness than the other adults about Pterano, so he may not have told her the actual story, other than a flat out "don't trust him", hence why she wouldn't tell Pterano the location...because Daddy said not to trust him.

When they actually learn what happened, Tops could say that Cera's siblings thought that with Pterano as their leader, their journey to the Great Valley would be far more "adventurous" and Cera's mother decided to go with the children to keep them safe, knowing that they could meet back up in the Great Valley later. After their deaths, which Pterano was responsible for, we know why Tops hates him so much.

I like the multiple groups idea, personally, although groups of two might be pretty cool
Rinkus and Sierra
Pterano and Ducky
Cera and Petrie
Littlefoot and Spike

I'd add more, but my trip made me a little fuzzy and less imaginative XD .


Littlefoot3897

  • Spike
  • *
    • Posts: 253
    • View Profile
i think most of the sequels are fine except... 11-13

everyone calls flowers tree sweets but before they were just called flowers. I havent seen 11 yet but what i heard of i dont plan on watching it.  the idea of tinysaurus. LBT 12 is ok but I find it funny how they find Guido weird because of his feathers, when Icky had feathers and in LBT 7 there was a type of a dino bird with feathers also. So everyone in the great valley would of know he was a flyer. 13 just ruined LBT. i like they movie but the idea of Grandpa longneck not talking killed it. of course the guy who does his voice was busy with Little Mermaid Ariel Beginning. but they should of waited or something. or gotten another guy.the yellow bellies also ruined the film by making the movie way to goofy to be a LBT movie.


Pangaea

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 4434
  • Contemplator of Deep Time
    • View Profile
I think “tree sweet” is a term for the specific type of flower (one with an especially sweet flavor) featured in LBT XI. Outside that film, the term has only been applied to fruit (which were previously referred to as such, as in LBT VIII), but not other flowers.

Personally, I really don’t think the absence of Grandpa Longneck had any effect, for better or for worse, on LBT XIII. Even if he had had a speaking part in the movie, it still would have been a goof-fest.

The fact that no one apparently thinks to compare Guido with the other feathered creatures is a bit strange, though. One explanation I thought of (albeit something of an unlikely one) is that the green Archaeopteryx from VII (as well as the yellow ones from IX and X) do not speak, and hence the LBT dinosaurs regard them as “animals”. Thus they might not consider that Guido (who demonstrates a fluentóif awkwardócapacity for speech immediately upon arriving) is related to them.

As for the use of the word “feathers”, if I remember correctly, Ichy only used it once, and that was when the gang was not around, so they would not be familiar with the term.

In regards to LBT VII, I can’t think of much to add to what Malte and Ptyra have come up with already (though one might pop to mind later). On a more general note, though, I love the idea of Ducky saving someone from drowning. One thing that really bothers me about the series is that, for all the emphasis on Ducky being a swimmer (so much so that her original species name is changed to that in the first sequel), she almost never gets an opportunity to utilize her skill at swimming in an important scene. Petrie, meanwhile, has a similar size handicap to Ducky, but he gets to contribute his flying abilities to save the day over and over again. Not that there is anything wrong with this, but for crying out loud, give the other little character a chance to shine every now and again, will ya? (I suppose they did have Ducky help save Tippy from drowning in “The Forbidden Friendship”óone of the few things I liked about that episodeóbut she had help from the adults as well.)



Pronounced "pan-JEE-uh". Spelled with three A's. Represented by a Lystrosaurus.


Petrie157578641

  • Chomper
  • *
    • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
    • http://www.youtube.com/user/TabalugaDragon
Ptyra You have A LOT good points about correcting my favorite sequel, especially I'm agree about Petrie being the centric character of the movie, in most of movies he got less attention that other characters, movie 8 was mostly about Ducky and Spike, 11 about Cera, I guess that's why he was centric in movie 12.
The Only thing I'm disagree with you is removal of songs, I find songs of The Stone of Cold Fire best , Well Beyond the mysterious beyond was very good, but Very Important creature was just awesome, I was very impressed of Michael York's singing, I just don't understand  how could you say that it movie would be better without this song. oh and Good inside is nice too, it teaches understanding of some people, besides songs are brighter than other parts of cartoon, for example Pterano Flying over Skies showing The Great Valley and the whole planet from Litlefoot's eye Rainbow faces shwing him Meteors and other beautiful stuff


Ptyra

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 3183
    • View Profile
    • http://z8.invisionfree.com/The_Valley/index.php?
^ Yes, it is awesome to hear Michael York singing. For his second singing role (the first was Tom's Boat Song in 1969's "The Guru"), it was pretty good.
I was thinking about what could have been done if the songs weren't in the sequels and being closer to the first, but becoming more and more "epic", if that's the right word to use.

But VII just wouldn't be the same without Pterano's self-esteem boost :lol


Ptyra

  • Member+
  • Cera
  • *
    • Posts: 3183
    • View Profile
    • http://z8.invisionfree.com/The_Valley/index.php?
*double post...augh*

I've actually starting my own "alternate version" of SoCF, using several of my own points that I mentioned, such as Petrie seeing the Stone instead of Littlefoot. Like Malte said, it would be hard for Petrie to have loyalty issues with his friends, and I think I might work that in somehow. My idea so far is Pterano gradually convincing Petrie that Longnecks and Threehorns are arrogant, and Petrie doesn't believe that until Littlefoot and Cera say "You can't trust your Uncle". When Ducky gets kidnapped after overhearing Pterano's plan, it gets to the point where Petrie has to repair his relationships with his friends AND his uncle.  

Hm. I guess the theme of this version is mendingg damaged relationships :lol .


Country-flyer

  • Ruby
  • *
    • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Have you started to publish your alternative version of SOCF, it sounds really interesting. I'm new so I don't know much about how to find your fanfics  :wave


Bruton the Iguanodon

  • Guest
Quote
So, we have a ton of laments about some of the sequels.

Songs, for one thing. I honestly think they could have filled in A LOT more plot if the songs had not been included. And use of characters. I think that Littlefoot is almost ALWAYS experiencing/seeing the plot device in the first seven movies most of the time. The only time I think he really wasn't so huge of a character was in 12. Sure he's the main character, but he really steals the stage a lot. Here I go with using my favorite movie as an example XD !

If I were to re-write seven, I would make Petrie the central character. The whole Stone of Cold Fire phenomenon would bring his relationship with his uncle MUCH more to the test than the original story does.

The intro is pretty much the same. Instead of Littlefoot seeing the Stone of Cold Fire, it's Petrie and Ducky. Um...I guess Ducky and Petrie are staying with Spike while he has his midnight snacking? The story gets out. "You're crazy" happens. Enter the Rainbow Faces (who could seem slightly more alien). Instead of "Beyond the Mysterious Beyond", we would have the Rainbow Faces kinda poke at Mr. Threehorn's skeptical mind. Please include "Why not the Boring Beyond? Or the 'Ooo, There's-Nothing-Out-There-Of-Any-Interest-Of-Us-Beyond'?" They would have a little TALK that takes up less time than the song, and go straight into the Stone of Cold Fire.

Here comes Pterano. He might be a little bit creepier if he tries to get the Stone's location from his nephew and his nephew's friend XD . At the same time, when Rinkus and Sierra come around, he might be much more defensive of the children than originally.

Cera has her suspicions about Pterano and she gets a little mean to Petrie about it...without really meaning to be extremely mean, she still upsets Petrie a little too much. Petrie has already gone crying to Pterano. He tells him the whole story-from the Stone's location to the terrible things Cera said about him. That night, Ducky overhears Pterano's plan as she tries to find Petrie, pretty much like in the series. Not everything she hears is about Pterano becoming the leader, but "reversing what he did wrong". Sierra finds her and...takes her away. He then pretty much pressures Pterano into kidnapping her...that's not right DX . It's basically a "You really think we should leave the brat behind and spoil your plan?" thing. Petrie arrives just in time to see the trio taking Ducky away. He chases them and Rinkus gets a bit rougher than smacking Petrie away. Angry Pterano is angry.

And then we have the same story/flashback as before. Now WE know what Pterano did wrong. Perhaps Cera's mother and siblings could have been in the same group that was attacked, so we could have more extent on why Tops hates him so much. Petrie's mother asks about the Stone's location because he knows too.

As the group decides to go after Pterano, we cut back to the fliers. They take a break to rest and Pterano tries to sneak Ducky back to the Great Valley the safest way for her to get back on her own. It ultimately fails when Sierra thinks she is running away. Somewhat the same as before, but we don't have Pterano trying to bribe her out. "We won't hurt you", indeed .

The gang is reunited, and Petrie has his little breakdown.
Instead of "Good Inside", we cut it down right to:
Ducky: Oh no, he was very sad when the others dropped me, he was, he was.
Petrie: Really?
Ducky: Yes, yes. He said he was responsible for me.
Cera: *Responsible*!?
Ducky: Cera, not everyone is all bad.

And we cut to Pterano being a little mopey about what happened to Ducky. Sierra picks on him a little bit and he gets swatted. The kids are shown trying to climb down the mountain and Sierra snags Ducky. In the end, it is Pterano retaliates against Sierra to let Ducky go. Eventually, Sierra drops Ducky from a high place.
Sierra: Fine. I'll let her go *drop*
RESCUE FEST! *Benny Hill theme*
Petrie tries to save Ducky, but when he saves Ducky, Rinkus swats them both. Pterano gets p*ssed and swats Rinkus and saves Ducky and Petrie. Pterano and Sierra have a little fight and Pterano loses Ducky and Petrie. Petrie nearly drowns and DUCKY saves him *1812 Overture*. Then the rest of the kids do the saving. Rinkus and Sierra chase the kids. Pterano stops Rinkus and Sierra from chasing the kids and does the whole "I am the leader, I give the orders, you follow them."

Instead of "Very Important Creature", we REALLY see into Pterano's non-selfish side as he rats at Sierra for threatening the children.
Pterano: Those "over-grown eggs" just happen to be my nephew and his friends!
He broods on that a little bit, and Rinkus and Sierra plan their betrayal behind his back.

Most everything is the same from here on out. But the Rainbow Face's departure could be a bit more epic and Pterano and Petrie's good-bye could be less...rudely ended.

Another thing that would COMPLETELY change the story is that Petrie chases Pterano and his group after they kidnap Ducky. The rest of the group follow Petrie.

Some basic ideas of what could have improved vol. 7 . We can expand on this and the other movies.

That was great. Really well thought out. Now, I'll do the sequel I think that could definitely be improved: Journey to Big water.

We start out basically the same as the movie does. Keep in mind, the original animation and color tones of 2-4 are used so there aren't any brightly colored creatures in this movie, like the jellyfish we see in the current version, and Mo's color is toned way down. We see the rainstorm hitting the valley, and then stopping. It's not called sky water. Littlefoot notices the rainbow. It's not called sky colors. He then goes off to find his friends. Cera and her Dad are pushing a NORMAL log. Ducky and Spike are helping rebuild the nest. The big difference here is  that when Spike splashes mud on Ducky...she doesn't laugh, she says angrily, "Spi-ike! I do not like it when you do that! No, no, no!" and Spike makes a noise like "okay". Yep, I'd purposely like to have Ducky go back on the word she made to Spike at the end of 8 that she'd never get mad at him again. I'm sorry, but it's just too interesting to see her get angry, and I'd like Cera's influence of movie 8 to stay.

Cut to Littlefoot visiting Petrie, who has a cold.  Same here.  Then, cut to Littlefoot returning to his grandparents, who're eating the moist treestars. Instead of "Boring", we just have Littlefoot saying, "I'm bored!" His grandparents talk to him about how he's only as alone as he chooses to be, Littlefoot goes off and finds the flooded valley, shows it to adults, meets Mo the next morning, all's the same until the gang are looking for Littlefoot. When Petrie says he can think for himself and then Cera calls him, he just stays, and then when she screams he comes and says, "Me coming cause me want to, not cause you make me!" No Imaginary Friends, do I really need to say that? Instead we go right to Littlefoot introducing Mo to the rest. The lioplreudon appears, Littlefoot says he wants to help Mo, the adults refuse, the earthquake occurs, they find Mo again...and it basically continues the same, except more action in my version and no singning "big water" from 5. Wow, that went fast.