The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => LBT Fanfiction => Topic started by: Serris on January 11, 2008, 01:18:00 AM
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I saw this AWESOME LBT fanfic (War of the Worlds) on FanFiction.net and I got inspired to write my own. It is in the VERY early stages. And I'm looking for some help.
I have the main villian being The Sharptooth from the original LBT (I named him Excidium <Latin for "destruction">). And the general plot is he STILL has a vendetta against Littlefoot and he wants to rule the Great Valley. Ok, I admit the plot is kinda bad, but I can't think of anything better (I did toss around the idea of Sierra wanting to rule the Great Valley.)
I am considering adding in the Stone of Cold Fire, but it will have mystical powers.
I have one scene where Littlefoot and his group fight "shadow" versions of themselves in a cave (Similar to Dark Link from Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time).
Also, I kinda want the biped dinos to use weapons/set up traps (crude ones like rocks or sticks as projectiles or clubbing weapons or perhaps hollow reeds as blowguns). I saw this idea in several fan fics. Is this a good or a bad idea?
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Well, it's nice that you want to make an LBT fanfic, but what makes LBT LBT is the fact that it's so far from human customs. The only thing we really have in common is the same language. Making them bipeds does not appeal to me at all. Besides, why would a sharptooth want to rule over the great valley? He wants to eat them, not rule over them. Try doing something a little closer to LBT and you'll get much better ratings.
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Making them bipeds does not appeal to me at all.
I meant if the dinos were already bipeds (See Ozzy and Strut and the sharpteeth)
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I guess I'm already notorious for my stand on most fanfictions (http://www.gangoffive.net/index.php?topic=103), but here are my two cents anyway.
Of course fighting is not of limit in the land before time as we know it, but usually the violence is triggered by the desire to survive. A sharptooth usually doesn't attack anyone as it is a mean old beast but because it wants to eat and survive. I don't think a Sharptooth would have any interest in slaughtering any more planteaters than necessary for it to survive. Attacking leafeaters when there is enough food for the sharptooth already would even be an unnecessary risk. I also don't see how or why a sharptooth would want to "rule" the Great Valley. It probably wouldn't even understand what anyone there is saying and the Great Valley is likely to appear just as "haunted" to sharpteeth as the Mysterious Beyond appears to the inhabitants of the Valley. I doubt that human concepts of ruling and power can just be projected on LBT dinosaurs. Of course Pterano's behavior in LBT 7 may suggest otherwise and so may the behavior of Cera's Dad in LBT 3. However, Cera's Dad acts out of the desire to ensure the survival of all (there is no hint whatsoever that he is abusing his power for example by letting threehorns drink more than other species) and in another case he just doesn't want to submit to Littlefoot's grandpa, but does never try to give any orders to him in return. In Pterano's case we have a character craving for recognition but lacking the wisdom and care necessary to face the responsibility of leadership. In every case it seems to be more about leader than reign.
I think there may be some cases where LBT dinosaurs might start a fight very remotely comparable to human warfare, but I expect that only dire shortage of food or the racism displayed in several movies in combination with a crafty demagogue could do the trick. Without some really good explanation on why and how the dinosaurs are fighting I'm afraid an "LBT War Fanfiction" would degenerate into an acting out (that is writing down) of violent fantasies which no longer got anything to do with the world of LBT.
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I think there may be some cases where LBT dinosaurs might start a fight very remotely comparable to human warfare, but I expect that only dire shortage of food or the racism displayed in several movies in combination with a crafty demagogue could do the trick.
Thanks for the idea!! Bear in mind this is a VERY rudimentary outline (if even that).
Also, I noticed that crude traps were used in several LBT movies. Mostly of the trip-vine or deadfall type, though.
Also, I have played around with the idea of Excidium as a genocidal/speciest T-rex who wants the the Great Valley for himself and other carnivores and keep the plant-eaters only as a food source. (Hmm, I like this idea.)
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Thanks for the idea!! Bear in mind this is a VERY rudimentary outline (if even that).
I did write a story based on that idea or rather I am writing it as it is not yet finished. It is titled "Old Threehorns". Unfortunately movies have been released since I started writing which contradict the story of "Old Threehorns" taking away some of my enthusiasm as I am really keen on keeping stories within the setting of the movies. So far 242 pages of the story are written.
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Mine is limited to characters and locations from the movies (up to 9 only).
There are 2 villians (Styrax, leader of a "mercenary" group of ceratopians and Excidium <the T-rex vith a vendetta against Littlefoot and a desire to "purge" the Great Valley of plant eaters and leave it as a haven for carnivores>)
I have considered an alternate plot about a ceratopian "army" invading the great valley due to lack of food in their land and Excidium as the leader of sharptooth "mercenaries" who join Styrax for "pay" (the Great Valley dinosaurs).
There is also a supernatural edge to this story.
If you do not mind, I want to know more about your story so I do not rip off of it.
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Styrax??? That's the name of my character from "Old Threehorns". :huh:
I mentioned him in some threads before.
As for mercenaries, what would they be paid with anyway? What would dinosaurs want to obtain that they can't pluck themselves?
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Styrax??? That's the name of my character from "Old Threehorns". :huh:
As for mercenaries, what would they be paid with anyway? What would dinosaurs want to obtain that they can't pluck themselves?
I did consider the "pay" aspect. If Excidium is the mercenary then I guess that his pay could be the dead Great Valley dinosaurs (food). If Styrax is the mercenary then I guess his pay could the green food of the Great Valley. Basically the mercenaries are paid with food.
The fact that your character and mine are both named Styrax is a coincidence. I have not seem him mentioned on this board and I came up with the name before I joined or even knew of this forum's existance.
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Hello:
All the mercenary thing is very new to me (in LBT I mean). But maybe, if the bad guys win, payment can also be to have the better places for hunting or to get food.
I mean, for a sharptooth, a payment would be to let it hunt where you know there would be a greater number of leafeaters. Well, that's what I think about payments too, besides of what you already told us Serris.
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the leafeaters could pluck their green stuff themselves and the sharpteeth wouldn't really do anything different from what they always do (hunting for food). I really don't see dinosaurs thinking in such extremely human terms as payment, vendetta, purge etc. Why would a Great Valley "purged" of leafeaters be a heaven for Sharpteeth? There would be nothing to eat for them! Why would they want to purge leafeaters? The conflict between sharpteeth and leafeaters is just the circle of life, nothing "personal" so to speak. I don't think this concept could work out in an LBT movie.
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One idea for a main villain, or villains, could be one of the flyers who were with Pterano from the stone of cold fire. One, or both, of them could want to rule the great valley, and may hate Littlefoot and his friends for thinking they cheated them of power, making them look like fools, getting away, many other reasons also.
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Why would a Great Valley "purged" of leafeaters be a heaven for Sharpteeth? There would be nothing to eat for them!
I should have clarified that the sharpteeth kept the plant eaters only as food not as fellow inhabitants.
I really don't see dinosaurs thinking in such extremely human terms as payment, vendetta, purge etc
I can see the these particular dinosaurs thinking in such human terms. The scene in LBT II where Ozzie takes Littlefoot and threatens to throw him off a cliff seems to be driven by solely by revenge.
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I can see the these particular dinosaurs thinking in such human terms. The scene in LBT II where Ozzie takes Littlefoot and threatens to throw him off a cliff seems to be driven by solely by revenge.
True, but Ozzy and Strut had a motive for revenge. The same is not true for sharpteeth in general with regard to the leafeaters and not even vise versa (circle of life).
I should have clarified that the sharpteeth kept the plant eaters only as food not as fellow inhabitants.
Then it was the term "purge" that was kind of misleading as it is more commonly used as a euphemism for genocide than for the creation of an inequal society. Still I really don't see why sharpteeth would even want to come to the Great Valley. There is a different thread somewhere about the view sharpteeth would have of the Great Valley. It would most likely considered a "haunted" place by them. Most sharpteeth who entered the Great Valley didn't live to tell the story (Chomper's family being the exception). While elsewhere it would be easy for a sharptooth to attack stragglers of migrating herds (who may be already weakened by lack of food) in the Great Valley they would face a large group of all kinds of well fed dinosaurs ready for battle to defend the place they consider a paradise. In the Mysterious Beyond it is probably more each for himself. The dinosaurs there wouldn't stay at one place for a long time or try to defend it, but move on leaving stragglers behind. Also look at the surroundings of the Great Valley as presented in the movies 2 and 3. That's what a sharptooth's paradise might look like. Looking at the many corpses and skeletons around the Great Valley they seem to make plenty enough prey there without taking the needless risk of facing a whole valley full of aggressive leafeaters. In addition to that it is unlikely that the larger kinds of sharpteeth (excepting raptors) would hunt in large packs. They would require just too much food and are better of in smaller groups. With the excepting of Chomper's family we never saw more than one large sharptooth coming together other than by accident and there is no reason to assume that those sharptooth stayed together (excepting the two who were brought into their timeless grave by execution through Doc and Littlefoot's grandpa while Littlefoot and the others were chearing apparently forgetting that they ever knew a sharptooth :angry:). The Mysterious Beyond seems to be the much better and less risky hunting ground for sharpteeth. I don't see why they would even want to stay in the Great Valley. Don't forget that Chomper's parents left on their own accord as soon as they had found their kid (no need for the Great Valley dinosaurs to chase them out).
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Likely the sharpteeth would have their own legends and name for what the plant eaters call the great valley. Likely a scary horrid place where the food can fight back and tend to win usually. And often if you go in you don't come out again.
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I also have one other request. I need a little help with the fight scenes. One-on-one is easy and I can do that very well.
But the latest chapter (12) involves a giant all out battle between the invading sharpteeth and the Great Valley dinosaurs. It is scattered through out the valley. What further complicates things is that both the attackers and defenders are armed with Stone Age weaponry AND air to ground and even a few ground to air attacks occur.
On a side note: Is it possible to include a Matrix styled battle?
On another note: It is now known as Land Before Time: Twilight Valley
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The only one that I know of is to shift the spotlight around from one battle to the next one, it would kind of be like this.
You could have, lets say the spotlight on Ducky's Mother vs Theta for a few minutes. Then it shift's over to Deimos vs Phobos for a few minutes. Then it shift's once again over to this time Strut vs Ozzie for a few minutes. Before it shift's over to Sierra vs Pterano and so on.
Maybe you could even do a few tag team or even handicap style fights like say Bron and Topsy vs Redclaw and Hasta or maybe Petrie, Ducky, Hyp, Mutt and Nod vs Thud, Screech, Dil and Icthy.
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I've got some of the fight scenes done:
This is one of the shorter ones.
So what do you think?
Sample:
A large green male Fast-Runner and a gold female Spike-Tail were fighting a group of fast-biters. A fast-biter leapt onto the Spike-Tail; the Fast-Runner grabbed it and snapped its neck before it could injure his ally. He then used the fast-biter’s carcass to beat another fast-biter to death. He then threw the mutilated fast-biter at another fast-biter, knocking it down. The Spike-Tail had used her spiked tail to deadly effect as the blood running down her spikes showed. She tail whipped a cluster of three fast-biters, knocking two of them down and impaling the third on her spiked tail. She ignored the shrieks of agony that the dying fast-biter gave off and continued battering her enemies with her tail and body.
Another group was also fighting alongside the Spike-Tail and the Fast-Runner. This group was composed of a Runner armed with a hollow reed he used as a staff and a Swimmer armed with armed with a wooden spike, was fighting a group composed of two sickleclaws and an enemy Runner. The Swimmer was grappling with a sickleclaw. With a groan, he pushed his opponent down and aimed a kick right at the sickleclaw’s groin. The sickleclaw rolled out of the way, leapt back onto his feet and kicked the Swimmer in the stomach. The toe claw of the sickleclaw made only a glancing impact but it still caused the Swimmer to flinch. The sickleclaw took advantage of the brief pause and seized the wooden spike. The Swimmer tried to hold on but the sickleclaw smashed his elbow into the Swimmer’s stomach, stunning him and forcing him to let go of the spike. The sickleclaw grinned and raised the spike for the final blow, but the Swimmer quickly grabbed a handful of dirt and hurled it into the sickleclaw’s face. The sickleclaw cursed in anger and clutched his right eye, forcing him to drop the wooden spike. The Swimmer sized the spike and buried it into the sickleclaw’s throat, killing him. He rushed to help his Runner ally who was fighting off another sickleclaw and an enemy Runner.
The Runner placed one end of his staff into the ground and used it to help support himself as he leapt into the air and used both feet to kick the opposing Runner. The kick connected with an audible thud as it sent the Runner sliding back a few feet. He then lowered himself to the ground, pulled his staff out of the ground and with his staff delivered a swift blow to the sickleclaw’s knee, breaking it with an audible crack. He then delivered a powerful two-handed swing to the sickleclaw’s temple, killing it. He saw his ally coming over and gestured towards the Runner, who had picked himself up and grabbed a large rock.
The Swimmer charged the Runner, leaping out of the way of the thrown rock. He tackled the Runner but the Runner somehow escaped. The Runner fled and the Swimmer gave chase but the Runner was too fast for him to catch.
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Ok, I've got a dilemma for the next chapters (13-15):
I will be introducing a new allied sharptooth (sickleclaw) named Rime. He will not be permanent.
The two problems I ran into are:
1.) How should I get him to join?
I considered having him defect (family was held hostage by Claw Valley dinosaurs).
I also considered having Deimos, Littlefoot and co. catch him and force him to come along with them on a rescue mission to save Ducky.
2.) How should I get rid of him?
I originally considered having him captured then executed (thrown off cliff into The Big Water/ocean)
I also considered a heroic sacrifice.
But at the end (only if Rime is a defector and his fate is execution) I'll have Deimos (who, along with the other rescuers and Ducky, is riding Elsie back to Chomper's Island, the "rest area") look in the direction of Cloud Island and say these words: "Farewell, Rime. You will always be in our hearts."
On the other end (again, only if Rime is a defector and his fate is execution) , Rime will get the "any last words?" request from his two executioners and he'll look over the Big Water and say: "Good luck Deimos and Littlefoot. End this war, for yourselves and the rest of your family. Remember me." As he finishes, the two sharpteeth will throw Rime off the cliff.
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Tell me what you think.
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As a major fan of this story I gotta say for Rime's end, the second 'ending for him would be the best, as he is shown to have gown an attachment to those he's been with as a defector. I'm also a fan of the whole bold and redemption type ending.
As for getting him to join the story...I'm not sure which one would work the best but having him defect for the sake of his family sounds like a good idea to me. ;)
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Another problem:
How should our heroes find Cloud Island?
I have 3 choices:
1.) Rime will know the route to Cloud Island and he will show the heroes the way.
2.) Deimos and his gang capture an enemy sickleclaw use interrogation/torture to extract the information.
3.) Use the Great Valley Air Corps for recon and find it that way.
Which do you think will fit better with the story?
On a side note, I have part of the "Rime problem" solved.
He will defect but I don't know where to have him flee from.
I considered having him flee from Cloud Island (prison break!) but how am I going to get him off the island? I mean, there's no plane or boat for him to steal.
I may have to resort to him fleeing from the conquered Great Valley or Claw Valley.
If I choose to have Rime help our heroes to find Cloud Island it will be better explained if Rime was originally held on Cloud Island.
As for his family, should I have them be rescued by our heroes and join as characters or should I have them be already dead (heroes didn't arrive in time) or should they just go own their own way and not have anything to do with the war?
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I kind of just now came up with an idea, about how the heroes find cloud island. You could have Pterano and about five of the un named GVAC flyers find it while doing some recon. But then Rinkus, Sierra & about six of the un named CVAC flyers show up and a sky/air style dog fight starts between the GVAC flyers & the CVAC flyers.
In fact you could have that one idea come in to play that I gave you, with Sierra, now sporting the lion king like scar on his left eye. Well anyway only Pterano is the only one, that's able to get away from Sierra, Rinkus & the CVAC flyers. But at the same time only Rinkus and Sierra are the only two left after the battle.
(Pterano who did get hurt by Sierra & later in another chapter will sport the lion king like scar, but on his right eye!)
But as for the other one, I really don't know which would be best. And did you like like other idea about Theta having a sister that get killed in a one on one fight with Ducky's Mother in an upcoming chapter?
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Dark Pterano,
I was going to put in Theta's sister (who will be killed by Ducky's mother in a brutal 1 vs. 1 fight) but I'm deciding how to introduce her without causing some continuity problems and what to name her.
And after MANY chapters with combat I want to include some chapters with no combat (torture and sparring, yes but GV vs. CV dinosaur combat, no) so I'm going to hold off on the dogfighting for now.
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Some Great Valley dinosaurs could bust Rime out of Cloud Island with help from an aquatic dinosaur, like Mo or Elsie. Alternately, they could learn about Cloud Island from someone who escaped from there in the past. Might be a good way to provide background on a character.
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Serris,
I was thinking that his sister's name could sound kind of like Theta, but change the first letter on it, some what to look like one of these names like this maybe, who knows?
(Zheta, Kheta, Sheta, Fheta, Nheta!)
Maybe you could have Theta's sister a part of the secret CV underwater swimmer team, or in this case Blue, Gray or Brown Team. But when she and Ducky's Mother do have that brutal one on one fight to the death. They are moving all around/over the area, by fighting and stomping their through a small field of flowers until they end up knee or waist deep in water. In fact that's where Ducky's Mother ends up killing Theta's sister.
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I have the "Rime Problem" totally fixed but I ran into a new problem.
The gang will be going on an expedition to the Land of the Mists but the antagonists from LBT IV (Icthy and Dil) are at the Great Valley. Thus, there are no real antagonists save for the hostile terrain.
I have considered adding in something from Dink: The Little Dinosaur (more brutal than their version).
I considered having the group encounter some hostile plant-eaters who demand that Littlefoot (or possibly someone else) fight them in a 1 vs. 1 confrontation before they let them pass.
What I like about this idea is how it establishes that there are villains who aren't affiliated with Claw Valley.
The bad part is that I add to the already massive cast of characters.
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I kind of have an idea, that's somewhat like yours. But instead of a one on one fight before letting them pass by/through. I was thinking on the lines of maybe having them trying to figure/guess a riddle or something, before letting them pass?
Because you already have a lot of dino's fighting battles, as it is in the story! I would like to see something where Littlefoot or one of the others using his or her brain to guess a riddle or something like maybe having more brain's and less brawn for at least one part of your Twilight Valley story.
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2.) Deimos and his gang capture an enemy sickleclaw use interrogation/torture to extract the information.
This should definitely happen. Also, I was thinking about what the end for Ms. Maia and Procella should be like, and here's what I came up with. From a safe distance, perhaps Rime or another biped should injure Ms. Maia and Procella by doing some "sniper" work. There should be a few fast-biters with the protagonists who are ready to feast. I say the protagonists, including a rescued Ducky, should beat the crap out of those two before the fast-biters take them out the way Ducky's poor brother was murdered. This time, maybe, the two should be dismembered alive before decapitated to truly make them suffer. A "Karma comes back around" scenario like this would be good. I hope this helps ya out ;).
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Dark Pterano
Hmm. I like the idea of a riddle instead of combat. Only, what would that riddle be?
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Cancerian Tiger
Well, the closest equivalent to sniper rifles in Twilight Valley are blowguns (called hollow reeds in the story) and they rely on poisons to kill. However, I could have Deimos or Strut nail them with stones or stone throwing knives.
But remember that Ducky has been starved and beaten; it's unlikely she'd be strong enough to fight either of them.
I am having Ms. Maia survive this only to die later by Strut.
As for the fast-biters ripping Procella apart, I though that it would seem more interesting if the "commander" of Cloud Island orders Procella's death for failure.
I wavered between having Ducky muster enough strength (during the fight in the interrogation cave) to jam a stone knife into Procella's neck and cut her throat so severely that Procella is nearly decapitated (but still alive).
Another end I envisioned for Procella was that Deimos pin her to a tree with a few spears... and leave her like that. Note that this will probably not be combat related; they'll do it to her out of sheer spite.
As for the interrogation/torture, that's probably the most likely one as Rime knows that Ducky and Chomper are being held there but he does not know the location of Cloud Island. Also keep in mind that Rime is also a prisoner.
As to where they get the prisoner, I had originally intended that the prisoner be an invader into the meadow but I thought it would be better if Deimos and co. actually go to the Great Valley and kidnap an enemy sickleclaw for info.
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I have also toyed with the idea of "recruiting" some dinosaurs from the Land of the Mists.
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Oops, I did not think about Ducky being starved and beaten :bang. Your ideas there sound good just the same.
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I think I might have a riddle, that maybe you could use in your story Serris.
(Riddle) I'm all around you! I'm in both the sky and on the ground, what I'm I?
(Answer) Air
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One other thing, should the expedition team be forced to go near the Great Valley to get to the Land of the Mists?
Also, as an update, Rime has been captured by a Great Valley patrol.
And the expedition team is extremely small: Raptix, Ali, Littlefoot and Strut. I have considered adding Spike or Cera or one of the 3 Bullies.
Would it be better if it were a team of 4 or a team of 5?
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I kind of think five would be better then four, but as to who it sould be I'm thinking either Hyp or maybe another adult like, lets say Hyp's father and/or maybe Pterano! Just in case they have a run in with some flyers like Rinkus and Sierra or maybe even Strut's brother Ozzie, who really know's who and/or what they might run into?
Plus that way you could do another couple of small time fights between Strut and Ozzie as well as Pterano and Sierra, both in the same chapter. But that's up to you though on both the five or four thing and about who it sould be, I guess.
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I just realized that Spike and Petrie haven't been getting too much action.
Petrie is justified (Great Valley Air Corps) not much air to air combat going on now.
Spike is a little harder. Any suggestions? I am considering placing him on the expedition team.
Ovius is being considered but he's a "gunner" for the Great Valley Air Corps.
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Update:
1 OC flyers (Coatal) will accompany the group but its still in the air whether I should have Spike join as well.