The Gang of Five

Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => Hobbies and Recreation => Computer and Electronics => Topic started by: landbeforetimelover on April 21, 2008, 04:35:11 AM

Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on April 21, 2008, 04:35:11 AM
I have been reminded for the 8th time how resilient my flash drives are.  My mom ran over one of them with the car and she washed 7 others, the 7th of them being today.  It survived through washing AND drying! :p This is the second time too.  I can't believe more people don't own one of these.  I never use CD's.  They're way too inefficient.  I use these instead and have grown quite a collection over the years:

(http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa146/tlordame/second%20album/flashdrives.jpg)

I have about 3 times the amount of flash drives than seen here.  These were just the one's I had on hand.  I still can't believe that so many people don't own one of these and even more still don't even know of their existence.  I'm going to get an 8GB one soon and I hope to add it to my collection.  Flash drives have become a huge part of our lives.  They have necklaces, bracelets, ear rings, key chains, and tons of other stuff you wouldn't even believe that involve flash drives.  Why haven't these little devices caught on to most computer users?
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on April 21, 2008, 06:08:18 AM
I would expect it is in part due to folks being use to cd's and dvd's.  Considering the capacity they have nowadays they can store more then a dvd, though I"m not sure about a blue-ray, though by the time those come down to where most people can afford them I'd not be surprised if the sd and flash memory devices had shot past them.  

I wonder if those flash drives are better then sd or sdhc cards or about the same.    

They are handy, put a lot on one, pop it into your pocket and take it to another computer.  With a flash drive or a card reader all you need is for the pc to have a usb slot.  

I would expect part of their resilience is due to their being solid state, and lots of tough parts like plastic they are made of.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: DarkHououmon on April 21, 2008, 10:20:30 AM
I currently don't use flash drives because they are typically more expensive than CDs. And the ones I've seen at Walmart can only hold 1 or 2 GB. I can spend about the same amount of money it would cost to get a 1 or 2 GB flash drive from Walmart to get one container of about 50 or so CDs, each holding around 700 MB, or a container of about 50 or so DVDs holding 4.7 GB each.

So with a container of 50 700 MB CDs, I get a total of 35 GB of storage, and with 50 4.7 DVDs, I get 235 GB of storage. But with flash drives, I'd only get around 1 or 2 GB for the same price as what I'd spend getting a container of discs. I get more for my money. It's more convenient for me.

The flash drives I was referring to are the cheaper ones I've seen at Walmart. The cheapest I've seen them was around $20 or so.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: action9000 on April 21, 2008, 03:15:37 PM
DVDs are faster than Flash drives. B)
It takes me just as long to copy 1GB to a USB flash drive as it takes to copy 4.7GB from a DVD to my hard drive.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on April 21, 2008, 03:31:08 PM
As to which is better, each has their uses and certain strengths that the other lacks.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Clawandfang on April 21, 2008, 03:31:20 PM
I've got a very small flash drive (only 128MB) which I used to cart school work around. I got it a couple of years ago for less than £10, and have never needed to upgrade, as I use it very little.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Petrie. on April 21, 2008, 03:37:46 PM
I have only one blue Lexar flash drive at 512mb.  Only Lexar ones work with my computer...any other brand I've attempted will disconnect at random.

Optical media is far cheaper if you don't plan on editing anything stored on the media.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: The Great Valley Guardian on April 21, 2008, 04:50:05 PM
I currently own and use a 1GB flash drive, and it is a God send...really. I wouldn't have made it as far as I have in my college major without one! While I do use CD's from time to time, I prefere Flash Drives. However I would buy more, but I can't seem to get a job around here.

And whats worse is that my folks refuse to get me another one for school.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on April 21, 2008, 05:51:14 PM
The data on CD's and DVD's are too unreliable and it corrupts very easily.  I would NEVER use CD's or DVD's to back up any important information I have on my computer.  I always make an ISO copy of each disk I have because they always become corrupt after a few years.  Writing to CD's to backup data was great......in the 20th century. :p Now they have ways to store things more reliably and for longer periods.  They estimate the lifetime of data on a disk is limited to 5-10 years, while the data on a flash drive lasts about 50-80 years.  A disk has never lasted me more than 5 years.....ever.  They usually become corrupt after a year or two for me.  Add to that how easy it is to scratch the disks, and you're just asking for trouble if all you use to back up your data is CD's.  Heck, a bundle of DVD-RW disks is like $30.  Just spend triple that and get an external 500gb hard drive. :rolleyes:  It's a no-brainer.  I can only see the use for DVD's if you want to create movies for your TV.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: DarkHououmon on April 21, 2008, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: landbeforetimelover,Apr 21 2008 on  05:51 PM
Heck, a bundle of DVD-RW disks is like $30.  Just spend triple that and get an external 500gb hard drive. :rolleyes:  It's a no-brainer.
Currently my best option is to just get the DVD-RWs. Not everyone wants to throw away almost $100 for an external harddrive when they can just get some CDs for $20-$30. Makes sense. And they can last a good long time if you take care of them properly. I have a CD that's from around 2001 or 2002 and it still works just fine (and it's scratched up).
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Keni on April 21, 2008, 07:14:13 PM
Uh-huh...I have burned CDs with programs and such that are older than 5 years and they still work just fine. Maybe you have bad luck with them or something, 'cause I never heard of a CD corrupting or messing up after a period of time. As long as you take care of them and never scratch them they should work as well as the day you burned them. Even scratched CDs can be read no problem. So honestly I don't know where this "CDs never work past 5 years" idea came from.

I use CDs to back up important/huge programs that I own. I usually use my flash drives for documents and small files. So far I had one problem with my flash drive corrupting (Had to format it once, don't know how it got corrupted) and CD backups have never failed me yet.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: DarkHououmon on April 21, 2008, 07:16:10 PM
Quote from: Keni,Apr 21 2008 on  07:14 PM
Even scratched CDs can be read no problem.
True. A lot of my CDs are scratched up and most of them still work just fine. And a good portion of those that don't will eventually work once I clean them up and keep trying. Only a few stopped working altogether and they were usually the ones that got stepped on.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on April 21, 2008, 10:19:15 PM
There is also a device called a disk resurfacer that can remove a thin layer of a scratched disk to make them readable.  Though I'm sure there is a limit to this before ti gets to thin.

I read elsewhere part of how long a disk will last is not only how they are cared for, handled and stored, but also the adhesives that are used in their production.  Though I may be wrong since I'm not an expert in this area.  I have read on other pages about some having  their disks going bad after a time, cd's and dvd's, and others that have a disk that works perfect even after 5 or 10 years.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: action9000 on April 21, 2008, 10:38:59 PM
Quote
, 'cause I never heard of a CD corrupting or messing up after a period of time.
There is actually a life span on any CD, unfortunately.  Typically, the lifespan of a CD-R that you burn yourself is 5-15 years depending on the quality of the CD.  The lifespan of the commercial CD that you bought in a store (with, say, music or a game on it) is approximately 25 years, give or take a few.  This is because the disk surface reacts with the gases in the air (mainly oxygen, I believe) and over time the data on the disk becomes less and less distinct, as compared to a "blank" disk.

Fact of life: One of my friends has an anime collection he's kept on burned CDs for many, many years.  Recently though, his oldest CDs have stopped responding.  The disks simply blanked themselves out over the decade or so that he had the CDs.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on April 22, 2008, 03:18:17 AM
I guess dvd's are about the same?
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Petrie. on April 22, 2008, 07:59:46 AM
Nobody's had burned dvd media that long to know.  I think error correction is stronger on dvd writing media than cds, so you might be safe for a couple more years down the road.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on April 22, 2008, 08:09:03 AM
And I guess flash media will last longer then cd's or maybe dvd's?
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: action9000 on April 22, 2008, 01:37:40 PM
Quote
And I guess flash media will last longer then cd's or maybe dvd's?
I think the life expectancy for Flash memory is closer to 75 years but don't quote me on that.  I don't remember for sure.  It is significantly longer than CDs or DVDs from what I recall.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on April 22, 2008, 03:35:30 PM
Interesting.  I'd have thought they were about the same, but I guess it does make sense that the flash memory would last longer.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 05, 2008, 02:34:04 AM
Hmm...  Well, Blu-ray Discs are inorganic (copper and silicone if I remember correctly), so it would seem to me, that under optimal circumstances, they would last even longer than either CD or DVD.  Amazing...  I didn't know Flash drives would last THAT long...  Now if only there was a way to write-protect them...  That's the thing I like about DVD+R; you can't erase it...  But, the organic thing is a problem...

All of my CDs, save for one, still work, and I've had some of those for 10 years; some of my backups are AT LEAST 5 years old.  However, to be on the safe side, I have made backups of some of the lower quality CDs...  (I don't really intend to burn to double layer, either...  If you burn data onto a single layer DVD, and it goes bad, you'd only lose about, maximum, 4.7GB.  However, you'd lose DOUBLE that if a double layer DVD was to go bad...!!!  Not good...

I forgot to mention, that the CD that I had problems with, was a CD with a bunch of .WAV files; I was able to extract all the files with ISOBuster, and reconstruct them to be usable again, cutting out the "bad parts" that were left behind.  (The disc had minor label damage.  Peeling/flaking...)  Fortunate thing that it was only a bunch of .WAV files, and that the majority of them - especially ones that were semi-important to me - were mostly untouched...

EDIT: Oh, and for the record, I have ONE Flash drive, a 1GB Memorex, intended to be used mainly for my college stuff.  When college fell apart, I was left with a way to transfer files without opening my computers and swapping hard drives...
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 05, 2008, 03:00:12 AM
Quote
Now if only there was a way to write-protect them...

You can.  Some flash drives have the little notch like floppy disks used to have or if you don't have one of those there are some programs that will protect your flash drive from being written to unless you enter a password (I'm not talking about the password encryption file system garbage).
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 05, 2008, 03:12:20 AM
Wow...  I'd love to get my hands on a reliable piece of software that would do that, then!
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 05, 2008, 03:14:45 AM
I think it's called bitlocker or something.  It's freeware but I must warn you that it is NOT user friendly.  Took me forever to be able to encrypt my drive with write protection.  It's a good thing I backed up all the data that was on it first though.  I had to format the drive 8 times before I finally got it right. <_<
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 05, 2008, 03:16:04 AM
Hmm; what file systems does it support?

And, will the encryption still be in effect if you were to, say access the drive in Linux?
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Lillefot on May 05, 2008, 03:16:11 AM
They are a marvelous invention!
I use them everyday, I'm sure we all do, more or less.
Mine...is broken!  :lol:  But I fixed it with my solder!  :^.^:
It looks great now, without any plastic cover!  :P:

/Lillefot
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 05, 2008, 03:18:58 AM
Wow, Lillefot...  Good job!  But, just be careful with it...

How did you manage to break it, anyway?  Those are tough...
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Lillefot on May 05, 2008, 03:30:28 AM
Quote from: NeptuneNavigator2001,May 5 2008 on  02:18 AM
Wow, Lillefot...  Good job!  But, just be careful with it...

How did you manage to break it, anyway?  Those are tough...
HAHA! Well, it was plugged in to my PC out in my cottage, this kind of flash drive stick out like 3 cm when plugged in.
And as I was leaving the computer... I rose my leg and more or less "kicked" it!
It got broken in two, and I was like: n...no..NO!  :lol:
I had many weeks work on that one! (I make backups often)
So, I brought some stuff, and thanked god that I know how to handle a solder! :P:
Now it works again! Though the solding looks amateur!  :^.^:
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 05, 2008, 03:55:07 AM
Well, at least you got it working again! :lol: Be thankful that you know how to handle a soldering iron! :D
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 05, 2008, 04:00:41 AM
Soldering most things isn't too hard, but a flash drive would be.  I've done the same thing before with my leg, but it just broke the plastic off.  I now have a flash drive that's just a piece of metal.  Pretty cool looking, but I've gotta keep it clean otherwise the data might get erased or the drive could become physically damaged.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on May 05, 2008, 05:37:21 AM
They are very neat and handy things, and very small for something that hold so much data.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 05, 2008, 06:02:38 AM
Hmm, well, except for my LP-ripping computer, all of my computers are off the floor, on tables...  (Actually, my other computer is sitting on my Pac-Man arcade machine, nonetheless...  With no other place to put it, well...)  So, I've never had that happen.  And, when I did have my flash drive plugged into that computer - for transferring files - it was plugged into one of the two USB ports in the back of the computer, and the way I have it set up, I seriously doubt I would actually get near the back of the computer, and kick the flash drive...  :P:
BTW, landbeforetimelover, could you post a link to that write-protecting program?  The freeware one?  I can't seem to find anything about it online...  And maybe some other people here would find it useful, too...
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on May 05, 2008, 05:30:43 PM
I like the idea of a solid state drive better then a hard drive, though obviously hard drives do have their advantages, one obvious one being price.  The whole flash drives and media is a good idea of who ever thought it up, I'm glad they did and could develop it.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 05, 2008, 08:49:37 PM
Yeah, I know...  It's a good concept...
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: action9000 on May 06, 2008, 02:46:47 PM
I'm just waiting for the day when solid-state drives are fast enough to start replacing mechanical hard drives (which fail way too easily).  Flash drives are still painfully slow compared to normal hard drives.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on May 06, 2008, 05:13:13 PM
That will be a good day, I"m waiting for that day as well.  Hope it arrives sooner rather then later.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 06, 2008, 09:37:56 PM
I agree that hard drives tend to fail so easily...  It's not a nice thing...! :bang
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on May 07, 2008, 02:10:59 AM
True, I've had some that didn't last long, I"m glad the current ones have.    That is one of the pluses of one of the small subnotebook pc's I"m thinking of getting.  It has no harddrive but uses a solid state drive instead, though a small one.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 07, 2008, 02:59:47 AM
Hard drives are a joke.  Just a few days ago, a client brought his computer back to me.  I had replaced his little 80gig hd with a new 320gig hd only a little over a year ago and it had already failed.  I tried to talk to the company about warranty but all they would do is repair it and I had to pay for shipping there and back! :angry: What a joke!  The guy just bought another HD from me, this time a 500gb for only $119.  It was worth it to him so he could get his computer working that DAY instead of a WEEK or two from then.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Petrie. on May 07, 2008, 08:13:04 AM
Guess I'm lucky then...my original desktop I bought back in '02 still has its original HD in it and that computer is almost on 24/7.  Granted there are two other (larger) drives in it, but still.  My external 250GB one is going on over two years now without a problem.  I've had flash drives that don't connect to the computer so I can say quite the reverse for my experience. ;)
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on May 07, 2008, 08:18:48 AM
I've read certain brands are better then others as far as flash drives are concerned.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 07, 2008, 08:46:20 AM
Quote
I've read certain brands are better then others as far as flash drives are concerned.

Yeah, I've heard that too, but according to what I have read, most of the advantages of buying the better brand are trivial such as harder plastic and they look better.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on May 07, 2008, 08:53:52 AM
I heard they are less prone to the data being corrupt or other things happening.  Though I'm no expert and have not done a test myself.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: action9000 on May 07, 2008, 03:24:15 PM
Quote
Yeah, I've heard that too, but according to what I have read, most of the advantages of buying the better brand are trivial such as harder plastic and they look better.
I'm not completely sure on different brands, myself.  Flash Drives are getting cheaper now, to the point where buying "cheap" brands doesn't save you much money.  If you're going to buy a flash drive, just get a decent brand for the few extra dollars. :P:

I don't really have a use for a flash drive, myself.  I use my laptop and my Mp3 player as flash drives. :p
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 07, 2008, 03:42:44 PM
Hmm, I don't know if you missed it in my other post, or if you just didn't read that far back, or forgot, or whatever.  So, I'll ask again, no worries: landbeforetimelover, could you please post a link to that freeware write-protecting program that you use(d) for your flash drive(s)?  Maybe other people here would find it useful too, and I know for certain that I would.  (And yet, now, because of currently being at my aunt's house, I won't be able to use it...  I'll be sure to download it when I get back home!)
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Clawandfang on May 07, 2008, 05:06:20 PM
I'm thinking about getting 4GB of flash memory for £10. Good idea?
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 07, 2008, 05:46:51 PM
Quote
I'm thinking about getting 4GB of flash memory for £10. Good idea?

I'd love to tell ya, but I have no clue what kind of money system you're using.  Right now, the cheapest you can get a 4 gig flash drive is 35 US dollars.  I have no clue what that symbol you're using means.  Perhaps you could use a money converter.


@NN2001, I don't remember the name exactly.  It was a while ago (just so you know, I put it on a 256mb flash drive that I paid $80 for, so it was a looooooong time ago :p ).  It was like bitlocker or bit protector or.......bit something......
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on May 07, 2008, 07:23:31 PM
I don't know the British monetary system, but at the rough conversion rate to us money it seems about the average price for 4g in the us at Newegg.  I've heard Kingston is a good brand.  Some have said good stuff about A-data.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Petrie. on May 07, 2008, 08:56:48 PM
Kingston was the brand of flash drive which randomly disconnected all the time from our computers. :p  Only Lexars have been flawless for me.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Cancerian Tiger on May 07, 2008, 10:21:19 PM
Hey, I think I saw something about a Microsoft XP flashdrive coming out :unsure:.  It's supposedly under thirty bucks.  Has anyone gotten one yet, and is it any good?
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 07, 2008, 11:18:13 PM
*In response to landbeforetimelover's post*
Hmm, well, after doing some basic research the other day, I found that BitLocker isn't it; that's something that's included with Windows Vista - which I will most likely never use, and would not migrate to, were it not for DirectX 10; but soon, even that won't be exclusive to Vista...  ...Well, I guess finding that program is the key, landbeforetimelover, since we don't have a name yet.  I'm certain you'll come across it eventually.  No, pressure, bro!  No pressure at all...
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 08, 2008, 03:35:14 AM
Microsoft products are such a joke.  HP products far surpass them.  Just take a look at this lame keyboard:

(http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/images/microsoft%20keyboard%20from%20pc%20magazine.jpg)


It's keys are freaking curved! :blink: God, that makes is so uncomfortable to type on!  When I got this, I immediately went and exchanged it for a logitech keyboard.

Kingston products are crap.  I remember that. <_< Cheap garbage.  Everything Kingston I ever bought sucked.  Even the USB extension cable failed after like a week. :p
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Clawandfang on May 08, 2008, 12:05:35 PM
Ten British pounds comes out at just under twenty United States Dollars.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 08, 2008, 01:49:54 PM
Hmm, I've heard that their RAM is good...  I don't know if you've ever had experience with that...?  I was thinking of upgrading my RAM on my better machine to a gig of that...  Then using my other RAM to upgrade my web machine; now THAT will be nice!  ...But, if you don't even recommend their RAM, then what RAM do you recommend, landbeforetimelover?  (Maybe certain products work better with certain computers...  That seems to be the "trend," so to speak.)

Dude!  On my aunt's computer, I'm typing on this almost EXACT keyboard, except that the keys aren't curved!  Man, that's weird!
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: Kor on May 08, 2008, 04:48:07 PM
Kingsington ram is the only type I usually buy, and I've had no problems so far, though that may not mean much.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 08, 2008, 05:25:59 PM
No, it does mean something.  You've had good experiences with the RAM, so there's a chance that I might, too.  If landbeforetimelover has had bad experiences with the RAM, then I can still weigh the risks and benefits.  I'll just have to see...  I just hope it works okay with a Compaq.  (Two of my machines are actually Compaq Presarios.  I know there's better machines out there, but for getting them for free, they're not that bad, even if they're not exactly top of the line.)  I can upgrade that machine for a while, which would probably be the only way to go, since I can't seem to stay afloat of the computer industry.  It just moves too fast...
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: action9000 on May 08, 2008, 06:02:45 PM
I've used Kingston RAM in all of my computers up to my most recent one (which uses Patriot, not Kingston).  I have never had any issues with Kingston nor Patriot RAM.
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 08, 2008, 06:09:54 PM
Okay, that makes two! :D I'm gonna go check out TigerDirect really quick...  That's where I go for all my computing needs, if ever I have the money...  Can't wait for Blu-ray to drop in price...  Yeah, I know I've already said it...  Sorry. :lol:
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 08, 2008, 06:24:07 PM
It's pretty hard to screw up ram.  Just like if you go to a restaurant and you wanna order something safe, you order pan cakes.  I would recommend getting the cheapest possible ram, regardless of the brand.  You'll just have to replace it in a couple months anyways. :p However, if you're just out for ram, go here. (http://www.crucial.com)  This is the absolute cheapest place on the internet to get ram and it's the easiest way to purchase it.  Be sure to place the order over the phone though so you can get shipping insurance.  They don't have that option on their site for some reason. :blink:
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 08, 2008, 06:26:47 PM
Hmm...  Can't do it if they need a credit card.  I don't have one, and I don't plan on getting one, for various reasons.  ...I haven't heard anything bad about Crucial, though...
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: landbeforetimelover on May 08, 2008, 06:31:52 PM
Crucial is only really well known to computer guru's and such.  They'll never talk about it in a computer store because they can save you around 40% off retail computer store prices.  For instance, I was upgrading an old Gateway solo 2550 laptop to 256mb and the chip would have cost $196 at best buy.  Crucial.com gave it to me for only $42.  Here's a pic of that Laptop BTW :lol :

(http://www.intellesale.com/item_images_ht/thumb/16.jpg)

Freaking 5 inch thick piece of garbage now, but it was once my best laptop a looooong time ago.  I had that thing totally decked out at 500mhz, 256mb of ram, and a HUGE 20gb hard disk.  Not big now, but it was a master machine back in 1997. :p
Title: Flash Drives
Post by: NeptuneNavigator2001 on May 08, 2008, 06:34:22 PM
Hmm...  Odd...  I checked on that site, and it said that BOTH of my Compaqs could only handle 512 megs!  Huh...  My dad said that the newer one might be able to handle a gig.  Now, if it only works with 512 megs, it wouldn't be able to handle anything past that, would it...?  (As in, I pretty much know the answer anyway...  An absolute no.)