The Gang of Five
The Land Before Time => General Land Before Time => Topic started by: Belmont2500 on November 08, 2009, 12:19:41 AM
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Alot of people say epic battles can't be in animated children's films because they would 1. scare children or 2. be too violent, but this was proven wrong because they're is such a scene in "The Lion King 2: Simba's Pride" (if you want to see the scene, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR2oDW2BO9w) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR2oDW2BO9w)) so if Lion King 2 has a scene depicting an epic battle then why not Land Before Time, the closest they've gotten to one was the scene with the raptors in LBT3 and the Sharptooth vs Littlefoot's Mother fight in the original film but those didn't involve all the GV residents and a HUGE amount of sharpteeth, so basically it would've been cool to see a scene like that in a Land Before Time film.
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An epic battle would sure be interesting, but it would have to occur for a good reason.
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There was one. It doesn't get more epic than Littlefoot's mom vs. original sharptooth. I bet there hasn't been one since because they knew it wouldn't compare ;)
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^ What Sky says.
The reason is difficult to come up with because the dinosaurs of the land before time don't think in human terms. For example it would be totally senseless for large Sharpteeth (not to be confused with the smaller raptors who need less food individually) to form any real "army" and trying to attack the leafeaters in large numbers. Between sharpteeth and leafeaters it is the circle of life / the food-chain rather than the kind of personal animosities that often play a role in human conflict. Sharpteeth would not benefit from causing any large scale massacre with corpses rotting away before they could eat them and with a much higher than necessary risk of some of them being among the corpses.
As for the leafeaters, while concepts of ownership are not utterly unknown to them (that is my treestar!) the kind of human ideas of power and ownership of land etc. don't seem to be very far developed. The racism between some kinds might be a cause for a larger scale conflict. In any case one should make VERY sure that the reasons are well explained or else it will degenerate into violence for violence's sake because it is felt to be so entertaining. There are many LBT fanfictions including all kinds of battles (and yes, with Old Threehorns I am responsible for one), but unless there is some good explanation some of them just read like the authors satisfied their lust for blood and gore (sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's what the stories I was refering to sound like) at the expense of any real story.
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That is not Sky but Caustizer who said that.
Epic battles are cool but they cannot be a Big Lipped Alligator Moment; they need to make sense in context. For example, it makes perfect sense if the fan fic TWV were a movie but not in LBT IV.
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Darn me :bang
I'm very sorry Caustizer. Obviously I did not look careful after seeing the new Avatar drawn by Sky.
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I believe that there already was an epic battle between Littlefoot's mother and the sharptooth, but I know your definition of an "epic battle" is more warlike and probably involves more than two beings. I have to agree with Malte on the possibility of any sort of modern-style warfare in LBT without some sort of outside influence. It just doesn't really add up. The few fics that do have some sort of a Sharptooth army usually make the sharpteeth a fair bit more intelligent then they are portrayed in the series, or, in the case of my fic, having the fast-biters and smaller LBT carnivores perform a locust-like sweep into the Valley, or just a hit-and-run style attack for food. I would also like to add that the only reason the two prides in the Lion King 2 fought in a modern style was because of the slightly more civilized and structured nature of the two prides. Since the story was basically Romeo and Juliet with lions, Simba's Pride and the Outlanders basically acted as the houses of Montague and Capulet.
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not really my definiton of an epic battle can also be a duel but I'm just saying it would be interesting to see a Troy-style scene in LBT but nowhere near as graphic.
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That is not Sky but Caustizer who said that.
Epic battles are cool but they cannot be a Big Lipped Alligator Moment; they need to make sense in context. For example, it makes perfect sense if the fan fic TWV were a movie but not in LBT IV.
I like to think of the entire LBT 13 as a Big Lipped Alligator Moment.
What about the locusts swarming the Great Valley at the beginning of LBT 5? That involved a lot of participants, a conflict, and a clear winner, though it was only epic in the same sense as the First Battle of Bull Run.
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As I said, it needs to make sense in context but since the LBT office is closed... the only place you will see epic battles in LBT are in fan works.
On a side note, anyone besides me find that the music in the video clip sounds vaguely like part of the Halo main theme?
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Yeah, I was thinking that, too...
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Darn me :bang
I'm very sorry Caustizer. Obviously I did not look careful after seeing the new Avatar drawn by Sky.
It's okay. This new avatar is not Sky but actually a different character named Glide. He's Sky's nemesis - mainly because he doesn't approve of Sky trying court his sister Star.
He's one of the more interesting characters in Far Away Home
Caustizer.
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^ Aye, but it was drawn by Sky, wasn't it?
That involved a lot of participants, a conflict, and a clear winner, though it was only epic in the same sense as the First Battle of Bull Run.
Err... with the minor difference of more than 900 people being killed and more than 2500 wounded (many of whom were maimed for the rest of their lives) in this battle that is considered minor by comparison with the later slaughters of the Civil War?
No, I really don't see anything comparable to the monster of human warfare in LBT.
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No, I really don't see anything comparable to the monster of human warfare in LBT.
Me, neither :exactly.
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No, I really don't see anything comparable to the monster of human warfare in LBT.
Me, neither :exactly.
Same here. And I, for one, am glad for it.
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Caustizer's avatar has the hallmarks of Sky's style and I believe it was drawn by Sky.
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Outside of fan fic, there is nothing comparable to Human or even Chimpanzee warfare.
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Sky drew my avatar for me... and I thanked him numerous times for it. A part of me misses the good old Guardian Tank, but the new one is much more LBT-ish.
Caustizer.
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I think your new avatar looks pretty badass, Caustizer. :)
Getting back on topic, there's pretty much no way conventional war would work in LBT without some sort of outside influence, especially considering that most of the characters are peaceful herbivores who have no need for combat, other than for defense against predators.
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Err... with the minor difference of more than 900 people being killed and more than 2500 wounded (many of whom were maimed for the rest of their lives) in this battle that is considered minor by comparison with the later slaughters of the Civil War?
No, I really don't see anything comparable to the monster of human warfare in LBT.
I was referring to the fact that one side turned it's tail and fled relatively . The First Battle of Bull Run would not be considered epic, as you mentioned in your post, and neither would said scene from LBT5, despite it being the closest candidate, IMO.
I am not supporting the concept of warfare or suggesting it should be introduced into LBT, and I hope you didn't take my post as such.
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Epic Battles in Children's media?
See (or read):
1. The Hobbit - has an animated movie, and a live action film coming out in the next few years or so. (It was written to be a Children's book)
2. The Chronicles of Narnia - has many film adaptations including an old animated piece for Lion Witch and Wardrobe, and the Disney's live action masterpiece films for this series
3. Redwall - This entire series is loaded with epic battles! Has a whole animated series based off of three of the books. And it has a movie adaptation coming out in 2011 sometimes.
And countless other pieces of fiction. There has always been a source of violence, bloody or toned down in certain children's media. You just have to look around you :)
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I was referring to the fact that one side turned it's tail and fled relatively . The First Battle of Bull Run would not be considered epic, as you mentioned in your post, and neither would said scene from LBT5, despite it being the closest candidate, IMO.
On a historical side-note, I think it is kind of a misrepresentation of the battle of Bull Run that almost since the day it was fought it has been known almost only for the route of the federal army and the firm stand of the brigade of Jackson who got his nickname "stonewall" in that battle. Some also remember the disorganization of the federal army (a regiment leaving on the eve of the battle because their three month term had run out and other outfits were delayed because soldiers started picking berries from bushes along the side of the road).
What is often overlooked is that the federals came pretty close to a success. Both sides were rather green, but considering their green state the battle was more than the "brawl" as which it is often depicted
The federal retreat (it began as a retreat before it degenerated into a rout) started only between 3 and 4 pm, that is after something between five and six hours of intense fighting after a long flanking march.
Part of the federals defeat was caused by "bad luck" (the confusion of the blue clad 33rd Virginia regiment for a federal unit and the loss of a federal battery as a consequence) and the degeneration of the retreat into a rout was partly because of the tricky escape route (across the narrow stone bridge) that was partly blocked by the battlefield tourists from Washington.
In spite of all this some units that had not seen action in the battle itself did not join the rout but stayed and (even without another battle resulting from it) probably played an important role in the lack of attempts on the part of the southerners (who were almost as disorganized by their victory as the northerners were by their defeat) to pursue the federals.
The battle of Bull Run was not a mere running and screaming on the part of one side at the first sight of the enemy and seriously it did not have much in common with the LBT dinosaurs running from swarms of insects in LBT 5.
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I already admitted it was a bad example, and my only point was that the LBT5 scene was the closest thing I could come up with to an epic battle in LBT. Nevertheless, it is still a far cry from whatever the original poster was hoping for.
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I'm sorry for sounding so "know it all" and I apologize for that :oops
I guess it is just the historian in me breaking through at the chance of going into details about a chapter of history I take particular interest in (we don't have many detailed historical discussions at the moment).
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I kinda got a little defensive at the end, mainly because I don't like being trapped in a corner, which I was, and set myself up to be. I shouldn't have done that. It is true I enjoy the Civil War history myself, and we don't often get chances to talk about things like that. As this whole thread has revealed, this franchise has little to do with such things :)
I also get nervous when it appears I'm sounding pro-war, which believe me I am not. In history last year, the teacher asked what each of us would do if the government issued a mandatory draft. I said run away to Canada, and surprised people by being the only male in the class who would refuse to serve.
Back on topic.
I don't think there's anything else to say about this Epic Battle idea. It wouldn't fit the franchise, so there are no good examples, and it's never going to happen because that's just not what LBT is like. Everyone so far seems to agree on that.
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It is true I enjoy the Civil War history myself, and we don't often get chances to talk about things like that. As this whole thread has revealed, this franchise has little to do with such things smile.gif
I also get nervous when it appears I'm sounding pro-war, which believe me I am not. In history last year, the teacher asked what each of us would do if the government issued a mandatory draft. I said run away to Canada, and surprised people by being the only male in the class who would refuse to serve.
I never had the impression of you being "pro war" because of the statement. Reading the part about the battle of Bull Run people might easily think of me as some war monger or gun-nut, something which I hope is definitely not the picture I conjure up in anybody's mind (and other statements on war in general and the consequences of battles hopefully and probably leave no doubt on my view there). But the fear of being misunderstood should not prevent historical discussion in the respective sections of the forum.
I would positively relish in more detailed historical discussion and not so to boast with detailed knowledge (though I admit that in some cases I may come across that way when indeed I think I spot something that may have to be reconsidered. But then again I have stood corrected in historical discussions myself already) but also to learn from you who are from the country where (in case of the US Civil War) the events took place.
I don't think there's anything else to say about this Epic Battle idea. It wouldn't fit the franchise, so there are no good examples, and it's never going to happen because that's just not what LBT is like. Everyone so far seems to agree on that.
I agree, but again, I would be very happy to see historical discussion in the respective sections :yes
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Movie 2, according to the wiki, had a huge local battle with even the kids participating! (From what I remember it actually did---I most vividly remember Petrie adn Ducky throwing rocks at at-rex from a tree and then they fell off/it threw them off and they feel to the ground and a tear fell out of duckys eye but it cut away from that really quickly
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There was one. It doesn't get more epic than Littlefoot's mom vs. original sharptooth. I bet there hasn't been one since because they knew it wouldn't compare
Are you serioulsly saying the actual climax of movie 1 didn't live up to that scene? What about the sharpteeth coming into the valley in 2? The one you mention had two participants and lasted 2 minutes or less (which most battles do in LBT, I should say) But what about Chomper's parents vs. the gigantosaur in movie 5? I'm not saying littlefoot's mom vs. original sharptooth wasn't epic, but there have been equally epic moments. As for a huge battle like this topic is suggesting, no way!! Uh-uh! Not in LBT! :x
On a last note I want to add that people underate some of the good action sequences in the earlier, pre-7 sequels cause they didn't have as memorable results as the first one in 1---in other words, no one died in them. Does that make them any less epic though?
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There was one. It doesn't get more epic than Littlefoot's mom vs. original sharptooth. I bet there hasn't been one since because they knew it wouldn't compare
You're wrong. There have been some since. There were battles in 2 and 3, remember? These actually did have more participants, but they ended with everyone alive.
As for 11, it also had a sorta full scale one, but...it hardly even counts, in my opinion.
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I consider None of the LBT battles as epic... though LF's mother vs. THE sharptooth was quite a good batte(and would've been even better, if it hadn't been cutted :anger )
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Can't beat 1, although 6 was actually quite exciting, and LBT XI's chase scenes, just for the severe, angled shooting - made it look more intense, I thought.
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The closest thing to "epic battle" was in LBT 10 when they fought the 3 sharpteeth.
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No one thinks 2 and 3's were good, though? (The ones with the most participants, probably)
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This thread is offically considered 'dead'.
(Hey, I made a rhyme :lol )