The Gang of Five
Beyond the Mysterious Beyond => The Fridge => History Section => Topic started by: Saft on January 04, 2011, 08:39:48 AM
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The topic is:
What is the first thought that comes to mind when someone mentions Troy?
(By which I refer only to the Illiad NOT the Odyssey).
Nearly everyone knows about the Troy and the Trojan war whether or not they have read Homer's Illiad and the subsequent volumes from other Archaic Greek poets that wrote about Troy around the Illiad. Whether or not they have read the Illiad they are more likely to have viewed films or read other books that have been based off this epic form of poetry, such as the film adaption of Troy that has Achilles portrayed by Brad Pitt or read books such as the Troy trilogy from David Gemmell. What I mean is that whether you are aware of it or not, Popular culture in the form of Classics is all around us and the majority of us have seen movies such as 300, Quo Vadis, Troy, Gladiator, even Disney's Hercules that are not just about entertainment but also about influence which the modern world in all aspects is indeed influenced by the ancient world of Greece and Rome.
However before this turns into an essay format, I am going to provide an explanation as to why I'm asking you to vote in the poll. I will admit that I was and am curious as to the result of this, especially when my Classics and Popular Culture lecturer mentioned that nearly everyone knows something about Troy and that the majority of people would most likely know it from the Trojan horse. So this is an experiment, which all is required for you to vote in the poll (please note that it is Single choice) in which the first thought from reading the question comes to mind. Please no wasting votes, this is an experiment albeit an unofficial one but still an experiment out of interest.
Thanks.
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I have read the Illiad and know the whole story quite well, but that didn't change anything for me for "Trojan Horse" being the first association that sprung up. Among the further associations that sprung up within the next second was also the fact that the husband of a friend of mine is named Troy though this surely would not be referred to in Homer's epic :lol
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Having had Latin as a subject at high school, when I hear of Troy the following saying springs to mind: "Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et donas ferentes."
Whatever it is, I fear the Danaians (Greeks) even when they bring presents.
The present is the Trojan horse, of course (hey, that rhymes!).
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Troy for me personally quickly relates to the movie troy, which is why I picked Paris from the list, lol.
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Funnily enough I remembered Laokoon's "...timeo Danaos et dona ferentes." too when scanning my mind for Troy.
Apparently Latin lessons leave permanent mental scars :lol
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Man, it's been too long since I read the Illiad. Anyway, it made me think of Achillies. He was always one of my favorite characters of Greek mythology.
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I read the Iliad in high school and college twice, and I've always loved Greek mythology. Mention Troy and I think of the Trojan Horse, and the origin of the old phrase "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts." Of course, the second thing that comes to mind is who and what started the war in the first place.
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I don't think of any of the above. I think of Troy State University and their football team, the Trojans. :lol:
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I, too, think of the Trojan Horse first thing :lol.
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Yep, rare as such an occurrence is, I ended up with the majority. When I hear “Troy” I think of that horse people used to hide in. I took Mythology in high school and loved it. I could talk about the stories, poetry, characters, etcetera for a long time. Greek, Roman, and so forth literature is fascinating, a lot more so than many new age written works I see around. Personally, heh heh, I wouldn’t mind this being in an essay format so much. Still, I am amongst the few in this world’s population that actually enjoys writing essays. But ah yes, this topic brings me back to a lot of fond memories. Really cool thread.
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I think of the movie when I hear Troy. It was an excellent movie with an amazing cast. To be quite honest, when I first saw Brad Pitt as Achilles, I didn't think he was the best choice. Then I watched the movie and I was pleasantly surprised at how good he was. On top of Brad's performance, Achilles is one of the most popular characters in Greek Mythology, so I chose him.
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Trojan Horse. That wooden horse is just too big to miss, lol. :lol
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Sorry to post in this again but another question to ask.:p
(Oh noes!)
How many of you believe that the events of Troy described by Homer were real events that Homer passed down? (Like Schliemann believed.:p)
Or do you believe that there is some truth in the events but you defiently don't think it happened entirely the way Homer described?
Or do you think that it didn't happen and that Homer merely composed an epic for the sake of an audience?
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I think that (similar to other sagas) there was a historic core but much has been invented to surround the story. If someone believed for all the events to have taken place the way Homer described one would also have to acknowledge the existence of all the Olympian Gods.
I heard some scientists believe the "Trojan Horse" for example to be an allegory for an earthquake that broke down the walls (since the horse was a symbol of Poseidon who was also "in charge of" earthquakes). Schlieman did prove the existence of a town (or rather several) at the place where Illion was supposed to have been located (which alone is one grain of truth). Sagas often included a grain of truth often put in entirely different context with fictional characters added or characters put together who lived in different times.
For example in the Germanic saga circle of the Niebelungen we have historical figures like Etzel / Attila who died in 453 alongside Dietrich von Bern / Theoderich who was born in 471 and sometimes Siegfried is interpreted to stand for Arminius who died 21AD (whose killing of the dragon is to symbolize defeating the Romans). I suppose that in Greek legends there would be a similar mixing of facts and entirely made up stuff and... oh my God, sagas are nothing but crossing over stories! :lol
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That would mean that historic events lie at the core of myths. But is this really so? I think that myths like the siege of Troy, the foundation of Rome, the Niebelungslieder, rather than being a glorified review of historic events, are actually ancient cosmological myths set in a historical setting. Siegfried is an archetypal Cultural Hero, who confronts the God of the Underworld (the Serpent). It is probably just a historicized, and thus euphemized (and thus more acceptable to a Christian society) version of the cosmological battle between Thor and the World Serpent for the World Tree. Historical events did have an impact on mythology, but it's core remained intact. Some deities, like Zeus, go millenia back and are older than the Greek language itself. Zeus is just a Greek rendering of the Proto-Indo-European name Deiwos phter. The Lithuanian rendering is Dievas, the Germanic rendering is Tiwaz (Tiw, Tyr), and the Latin rendering is Iuppiter. All these (I can elaborate on this later) are essentially the same deity. Proto-Indo-European was spoken 5000 years ago.
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Indeed.:)
I'm rather relieved that there hasn't been anyone (so far) who have said that they believe er...Homer's account of Troy. Imagine if the olympian Gods did exist.:p
Has anyone ever seen the Laocoon?
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^ I actually posted a picture of the Laokoon statue in a fitting thread here once. It was the only ever time in the history of the GOF that a post I did was removed through administrative action because this piece of art was perceived as violating board rules because it depicts nude people :p
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hmm..well i'll not post a picture..even if it is a work of a fantastic roman copy artwork.:p
Anyway, my main point is that for those who have seen or read about the Laocoon may probably know that the statue was reformed incorrectly. The serpent's head should be ideally near Laocoon (the man in the middle) face...:p
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The trojay horse of course