I don't understand why scientists don't ask for a little time to make sure their findings are accurate (Brontosaurus and Apatosaurus, Ultrasaurus and Brachiosaurus, etc. I rest my case) because, as you said, too many vertebrae could be added, or in the famous case in a documentary I saw on Flyers - erp, I mean Pterosaurs (watchin' too much LBT) - called Sky Monsters; in it, an Israeli paleontologist, I believe he was Israeli, had discovered fossilized remains of what was believed to be the wing finger of a massive pterosaur - with a wingspan of forty feet. he had also found some pretty convicing tracks as well where the creature could have touched down in some area of the desert.
It would have been so much cooler had not he realized about a third of the wing bone was actually a petrified log WHAT?! Honestly!!

Well, in the case of WWD and other such dinosaur shows, inaccuracies are usually the fault of the filmmakers either failing to do adequate research on the creatures they're portraying, or taking scientific speculation and rough estimates and presenting them as fact because it makes for good TV. For example, if a paleontologist tells them that the fossil remains they're studying could have come from a creature that was probably between 30 and 50 feet long, but might have been as long as 70 feet, which size do you think the filmmakers are going to run with?

I saw the show about the petrified wood being mistaken for a pterosaur wing bone, too (As if that’s not enough, the tracks later turned out to be geologically disfigured theropod footprints. ). Frankly, even I have to say that was a pretty pathetic mistake (According to other pterosaur researchers, the guy responsible is still hugely embarrassed about it). Still not nearly as bad the story of Aachenosaurus multidens, a name given in 1888 to a fossil of petrified wood by a scientist who thought he’d discovered a new species of hadrosaur (Due to the rules of scientific nomenclature, that plant will forever be known as “many-toothed reptile from Aachen”). Apparently that poor guy was so embarrassed he resigned from science altogether.

I think most cases of paleontologists getting things wrong, however, are more a case of science marching on. For example, contrary to popular belief, Brontosaurus wasn't synonymized with Apatosaurus because it was a chimera (a fossil that turns out to have been reconstructed from remains of two different species, in this case Apatosaurus and Camarasaurus), but because sometime after that mistake had been fixed, someone decided that it was similar enough to Apatosaurus to warrant including it in the same genus. There are still scientists out there who argue that Brontosaurus excelsus is its own genus and species. Ultrasauros (originally spelled Ultrasaurus but changed because someone elsewhere had already used that name), however, did turn out to be a chimera, part Brachiosaurus and part Supersaurus. Like many chimeras, it's a matter of not being easy to tell that the bones you've found belong to different species, especially when the creatures are similar, have died close together, and the bones have been scattered by water, scavengers, geological activity, or what have you.

Oh, by the way, sorry: I forgot to address your earlier question on whether Liopleurodon was still the biggest Jurassic predator. (Wait, whose question thread is this again? ) I would assume that it or some other giant pliosaur like Pliosaurus funkei is still at least the heaviest, though there are a few large theropods such as Torvosaurus and Saurophaganax (and others known from only fragmentary remains) that may have been slightly longer; in the 36–43-foot range. However, there was also an early Jurassic ichthyosaur, Temnodontosaurus (this page has a picture of its skull), that apparently reached 40 feet long, so it may have beaten out both the pliosaurs and the theropods for the title.

The largest predator of the entire Mesozoic that I am aware of, however, was a much older Triassic ichthyosaur, Shastasaurus sikanniensis, which is estimated to have been at least 60–70 feet long, almost as large as the WWD Liopleurodon. It was toothless, however, and probably fed on fish and soft-bodied cephalopods like squid, which it caught by rapidly opening its mouth to create a vacuum that sucked them down its gullet. Still a creature I’d be pretty hesitant to go swimming with. As far as toothy, Liopleurodon-like predators go, the biggest I know of is Mosasaurus hoffmanni, a colossal marine lizard from the late Cretaceous that reached lengths of at least 50 (possibly up to 60) feet long. In any case, Walking With Dinosaurs sure as heck didn’t need to make up or exaggerate anything about the scariness of prehistoric sea monsters. :blink:

As per the Dromaeosaurus, I mentioned both it and Deinonychus as my faves

Whoops! I didn't notice that; I was only looking at the list, and not the comments afterwards. Sorry about that.

So... that makes Ig the father of the hadrosaurs, eh?

More like the uncle of the hadrosaurs. Its group, the Iguanodontoidea, was the sister group to the Hadrosauroidea (which in turn contained the Hadrosauridae). Both groups belonged to the Iguanodontia, which was itself a branch of the Ornithopoda. (Taxonomy’s a confusing thing, innit? )

Now, Ornithocheirus, that was a surprise :blink: and even more so with Leopluerodon. *gawk* did that seriously happen? So how big would that make the two of them, now? Lio was originally thought to be as long as a Brach. Is it still the largest Jurassic sea predator? I mean, the fossil evidence I saw a pic of suggests so.

The annoying thing with giant pliosaurs like Liopleurodon is that seemingly every species has gone through a process that involves it at some point or another (usually when it is first discovered) being estimated to be some enormous sea monster, only for its size to be later re-estimated more accurately, and turn out to be much smaller. For instance, I remember reading that Kronosaurus was 56 feet long. Later, almost every source I found gave a length of 42 feet. Nowadays, it is believed to have been around 25–30 feet long. When Pliosaurus funkei (A.K.A. "Predator X") was first unearthed, reports trumpeted its estimated length to be around 50 feet. Now its length is believed to be somewhere between 33 and 42 feet long. Prior to Walking With Dinosaurs, Liopleurodon's length was usually stated to be 39 feet. Then WWD came out with its 80-foot Liopleurodon, which many people (including some authors of prehistoric animals books) assumed to be an accurate estimate of its maximum size. Nowadays, however, Liopleurodon is believed to have been around 33 feet long. I’ve heard that one reason for the downsizing is that the heads of giant pliosaurs turned out to be larger in proportion to the rest of the body than originally thought. Also, in the case of one Kronosaurus skeleton with a restored length of 42 feet, too many vertebrae were added to the backbone. I can’t blame the scientists for not always getting it right the first time, but I’m seriously starting to think that whenever someone discovers a new giant pliosaur, they should just give the reporters a figure of 25 or 30 feet as a safe estimate for its length, and assume that it’s not any bigger than that until they’re able to take more accurate measurements.

Similar things have happened with giant pterosaurs. Quetzalcoatlus was originally believed to have a wingspan of 50 feet or more. Later studies suggested that 39–40 feet was more likely. Now, with the knowledge that azhdarchids had comparatively shorter wings than other pterosaurs, Quetzalcoatlus wingspan is believed to have been closer to 33–36 feet. As for Ornithocheirus, its wingspan was probably around 20 feet, and the largest known member of its family, Coloborhynchus (the biggest toothed pterosaur yet discovered), may have had a wingspan of 24 feet, the same as the largest male Pteranodon. Meanwhile, the fragmentary ornithocheirid remains on which the size of the WWD Ornithocheirus is based have still yet to be scientifically described (I’m not sure why it’s taking so long ). Mind you, compared with azhdarchids, ornithocheirids had proportionally shorter legs, smaller bodies, and longer wings, so an azhdarchid with a 40-foot wingspan would appear to dwarf an ornithocheirid with a 40-foot wingspan.

When I first saw Walking With Dinosaurs, I believed its stats on Ornithocheirus and Liopleurodon myself, and was disappointed and irritated to learn that they had basically exaggerated them. The moral I took away from this was to be very skeptical of what dinosaur “life documentaries” portray as fact about their subjects. Sometimes they exaggerate, sometimes they aren’t perfectly clear that the creatures’ behavior is speculative (which is not on its own a bad thing), and sometimes they utterly screw things up.

What really bothers me about exaggerated and mistaken prehistoric animal measurements isn’t so much that the animal turns out to be somewhat less impressive than I had previously thought, but because of the effect it has on how other people see it. When a prehistoric animal is announced to be different in some respect from how people previously perceived it (be it smaller, slower, fluffier, less ferocious, etc.), prehistoric animal “fans” everywhere think, “Aw, that prehistoric creature wasn’t as awesome as we were told; those stupid scientists ruined it for us! I like the fictional version better; it’s way cooler than the real thing!” That sort of mindset really upsets me, because prehistoric animals are amazing enough (it’s awesome enough that they existed in real life at one time!); we don’t need to invent unrealistic imaginary versions of them in our mind’s eye to make them “cool”.

WE SHOULD CUT OPEN EVERY TARBO UNTIL WE FIND DEINOCHERIUS!! XDD lol I seriously got a kick out of that... ohh, those carnivores knew EXACTLY what they were doing "let's drive those paleontologists up the wall by devouring all the rare species we can find!" It's a plot, I tell you!!

Yup. Them darn conspiratorial carnivores.

I have a feeling that this is a bad idea, but…

Weirdraptor, Animeboye, can you two PLEASE give it a rest?

Petrie85, with all due respect, you really shouldn't make comments like that one you made about Weirdraptor; whatever your reasons for making such a statement, that did come off as pretty insensitive. I do believe you owe him an apology one everything calms down.

Animeboye, I for one can't tell whether your response to Petrie's statement was a deliberate affirmation of what he was saying about Weirdraptor, but even if it wasn't, I can see how he would perceive it as another insensitive remark. There is no call for your subsequent responses to him, however; you are only escalating things into a flame war.

Weirdraptor, I'm sorry you were offended, and I do not believe that anyone should talk to you the way Animeboye is or talk about you the way Petrie85 did, but you are not helping things. I know you've said in the past that you have problems with your temper, so I strongly think that you should take a break from this thread/this forum/the Internet/the computer (take your pick) and allow yourself to cool down.

I don't know if any of you have seen yet, but Malte posted a warning in the "Things you hate" thread not to prove him wrong on his belief that the MLP thread should not be closed down. If you upset the admins to the point that they do close down this thread, there will be a lot more unhappy members (some of whom may be angry at you). In any event, this flaming is not helping ANYTHING, so PLEASE stop.

EDIT: Looks like I write way too slow. Oh well.

I actually have a list of my fave dinos on dA here: http://thebattycrow.deviantart.com/journal/Favorites-310050880

Ooh. Very comprehensive.

(I couldn't help but notice a few misspelled names and minor factual errors in your list, but I won't bother you about them unless you want to know. Forgive me for bringing it up; I just can't help this educator's instinct of mine. )

On the subject of ornithomimosaurs…

Are you familiar with Deinocheirus, the giant Mongolian ornithomimosaur known only from a pair of eight-foot-long arms (plus some ribs and vertebrae), that may have been over 30 feet long and taller than T. rex?

Happy 19th star day, Redtooth! Hope you come back to see this message!

Did you ever see the episode where they tested whether elephants were afraid of mice? Oh, or the outtakes episode where a sea otter interfered with the "Ping Pong Rescue" experiment? (If you haven't, here's
here's the first part of the episode on YouTube; the sea otter segment is at 1:44–4:40.)

Not the most original of questions, but…

How are you doing, buddy? It's been a while since I've seen you on the forum.

FINALLY I’ve managed to post in this thread again! (I mean, seriously, twenty blorping months? Is that really how long it took me? :blink:) Even though you’re probably going to tell me not to worry about it, I’m sorry for taking so long.

Chupa:
Even though I can tell he’s based on the same design as the Jackie Chan Adventures Chupacabra, this one looks a lot closer to some of the pictures I’ve seen of what the real-world cryptid supposedly looks like (Perhaps that was intentional on your part). I think this is my favorite of the three cryptids you’ve drawn here. You did a great job drawing the limbs, hands, and feet (I particularly like how you did the proportions and joints on his left leg in the larger picture), and maybe it’s just me, but the way his wings are folded looks very natural, like what you would see in a bat or some other creature with a similar wing structure. Most of all, I love the amount of personality in his face. His eyes seem surprisingly expressive, considering their complete lack of pupils, and I love the way the line of his mouth is curved. Somehow it makes me think of animals like cats, crocodiles, penguins, bearded dragons, etc., whose mouths are set in more or less fixed positions that don’t allow them to be particularly expressive, yet still manage (from an anthropomorphic perspective at least) to exude a range of emotions based on the simplest of changes in the face (like a closed eye or slightly gaped jaw).

Strangely enough, the main issue I have with Chupa’s design are his nostrils (if that’s what those two black dots on his forehead are); I’m not sure it would be physically possible for nostril openings to be that close to the eyeballs, seeing as you’d need to have space for both the nasal passages and the eye sockets. The way his third and fourth head spines are bent in completely opposite directions also looks a little strange, though I find it clever that you have those first three spines curled forward to emulate a hairstyle.

Pop-tarts…now that’s a hilariously random favorite food for a Chupacabra. And the mental image of him sleeping on a pile of laundry is adorable! I’d get pretty uncomfortable having him around if he was always hunting my pets, though…


Crypto:
Personally I don’t find Crypto as interesting as the other two cryptids (mainly because I’ve never cared much for Greys or other human-like aliens; they’re just too boring for me ), but I’ve still managed to find things I like about him. I love the idea that he wears a cap in the shower; that’s hilarious! (I remember a joke just like that in a Three Stooges episode.) Crypto’s legs look to be a little too far apart, and his right leg looks a little shapeless, but you did a pretty good job on his left leg and arm (and his left hand looks fantastic).

I’m not sure if it was intentional or not, but his mouth in the upper left picture is a little asymmetrical, which makes him look annoyed. And that’s a good thing; I think it works well for him. I also like how you’ve apparently given him a slightly different head shape from a human or typical Grey alien, judging by the semi-profile view in the larger drawing (though maybe that was unintentional, too). The way his nostrils and mouth both appear to be farther in front of his eyes than a humans, and you can draw an almost straight line from his “nose” to his mouth, it’s almost as if he’s got an extremely flattened muzzle, like an ape or monkey, as opposed to slits on a completely flat face or a preposterously tiny version of a human nose. (Seriously, am I the only one to notice what bizarre noses humans have? They stick straight out from the rest of the face, the nostrils face downward, and they’re completely separate from the lips and mouth. I can’t help but think we must look incredibly ugly to most other species. )

Abilities: High intelligence; technologically advanced; telepathy; telekinesis; mind-reading; memory-blocking; invisibility; limited mind-control

Sheesh… Overpowered, much?


Azul:
Though his overall design isn’t nearly as interesting to me as Chupa’s, I love the personality you’ve given to this guy. Weirdly enough I find the front view of his face to be a little creepy-looking, but in the other (larger) view I think he looks cute. I think you did an awesome job on the hands (in both pictures), but his feet look rather strange to me. It looks like he’s wearing socks; I can’t tell how many toes he has (if any), and I can’t see any claws or nails, which seems odd given that he has claws on his hands.

Likes candy and pranks? I’ll bet he loves Halloween. Can he control his own luminosity? He could be a living Halloween lawn decoration! The sticking his head out of car windows and ceiling fan riding quirks are really funny, too.

I’m starting to notice a pattern of these guys getting injured before bonding with Xeno… How exactly did Azul get hurt, if he’s tough enough not to be damaged by bullets? (By the way, I was surprised to find out that that was a real reported trait of the Hopskinville Goblins; you really did your homework on these guys!)


Cherubimon Vs. Dragonite:
I know next to nothing about Digimon, so I can’t come up with much to say about Cherubimon. Honestly, I think he’s kind of silly-looking (though don’t tell him I said that ); when I look at his ears and the collar around his neck I can’t help but think of a jester outfit.

I am very familiar with PokÈmon (I first got into them about 12 or 13 years because I realy liked their designs and thought they made for really interesting fictional animals; later I heard about Digimon, but I already had my obsession and so I paid no attention to them). I honestly think your Dragonite looks cuter than most of the official artwork I’ve seen (Personally I’ve never liked Dragonite’s design as much as its pre-evolutions’). I honestly can’t help but feel bad for it, even though I’ve had my own share of royal-pain-in-the-neck PokÈmon opponents.

I found the Hidden Mickey, by the way; it’s on the lightning bolt.


Nintendo Logic:
I dunno, maybe Bug is strong against Psychic because it’s hard to concentrate on using telekinesis when there’s a fly buzzing around your head. As for Dragon’s weakness to Ice…the best theory I can come up with is that there seems to be a tendency in fiction for giant, powerful, rampaging monsters to become encased and immobilized in glaciers and icecaps. I agree, though; a lot of the other type strengths and weaknesses make no sense whatsoever. Why is Bug strong against Dark? Why is Poison only strong against Grass, and not Bug? Why is Psychic strong against Poison? Why are there four types that are strong offensively against Ice, but Ice is only strong defensively against itself? And don’t get me started on the Dark type…

Ahem…on to the picture:

Shadow Lugia is really cute. (I wish Lugia’s Shiny sprite had those colors…) This is pretty much the picture that inspired me to put him on your star day card. And I think you did pretty well drawing the human character (Clever of you to hide as much of her as possible behind the book so that you wouldn't have to draw an entire human, by the way ). I also love the colors in this picture, particularly Shadow Lugia’s shade of purple. I think it’s awesome that you hand colored it. And for the record, I had no problem reading your handwriting.


Sparky’s Waking Ritual:
Wow, so you came up with this entire sequence of waking/stretching positions yourself? That is, they aren’t based on any scenes from the movies where Sparky is seen waking up? (I wouldn’t know because I’ve only ever seen the original Lilo and Stitch.) This is a pretty elaborate series of poses; it almost makes me think you could be a storyboard artist! My favorite image in the sequence is the one where his hair is all fuzzed out, though I also really like the first one where he’s asleep.

One more thing I just realized: those antennae of his look an awful lot like jumper cables. I guess Sparky could be a useful companion on a long road trip in case your car battery died.


My Bucket:
Despite the relative simplicity of the drawing, this is a picture I really enjoy. As I’m pretty sure I’ve already told you, I too adore the “lolrus” meme. (The words “bucket” and “walrus” have become so entrenched in my mental vocabulary that I find myself using them all the time in various contexts, such as as expletives, or while randomly talking to myself. ) Prior to the creation of this piece, I seriously doubt that there had ever been a reenactment of the “lolrus” meme that featured a leopard seal as the star pinniped, or, for that matter, that a polar bear had ever played the role of the bucket. Needless to say, it was this picture that inspired me to draw a derpy leopard seal with a bucket on its head on your star day card.

I actually think you did a great job drawing the leopard seal; good enough that I immediately recognized it as such the first time I saw the picture. Not only is the shape of the head spot-on, but you included claws on the flippers, and from what I can see of the teeth, it looks like you at least attempted to give it the multi-pronged molars that real leopard seals have.

I also like this picture because I find it hugely refreshing to see a leopard seal being silly for once, since the vast majority of leopard seal images out there (including every. single. movie ever made in which leopard seals are featured, and about 99% of all nature documentaries) depict a ruthless predator, usually lurking beneath the edge of an ice shelf waiting to devour a helpless penguin. They’re awesome, don’t get me wrong, but surely leopard seals have a curious, playful side and cute fluffy pups just like any other seal. Personally I think they’re one of the most unfairly portrayed marine mammals in popular media, so I really appreciate your choice to draw a happy, goofy leopard seal just playing around (and, in the next picture, relaxing). For that matter, I think it’s pretty awesome that you chose a leopard seal as your marine mammal persona in the first place; I can’t imagine most people picking a leopard seal over a polar bear, dolphin, orca, whale, sea lion, or sea otter.


Just Chillin’:
I just love this image. All of the characters look incredibly cute. [img]http://i5.ifrm.com/1676/156/emo/dino_happier.gif
[img] I love the expressions on the dolphin and leopard seal, which look almost like what you could expect to see on the faces of those animals in real life. Initially I interpreted your leopard seal crittersona (that’s going to be the term I use for animal personas from now on ) as having her eye cracked open, and peering out the corner of it at the other two, as if even she couldn’t resist the cuteness of her friends sleeping. Then I realized that the eyes are meant to be solid black, and the white part just represents a reflection off the pupil. And while I’m not sure how comfortable a dolphin would be taking a nap out of water, it looks adorable, especially in conjunction with the polar bear having its paws hanging over the dolphin’s back. (Be careful not to cover the blowhole, though!)

FUN FACT: Yes, a polar bear's tongue is blue, but did ya also know their fur isn't really white? Each individual hair is actually clear! And the bear's skin is black! It's funny how optical illusions work!

Just to add on to that, in case you’ve ever heard that polar bear hairs are like fiber optic cables that conduct sunlight down so that the heat is absorbed by the skin, I learned a few years ago that that’s actually a myth. Polar bear fur is an effective enough insulator on its own that the bear has no need for an additional source of heat. In fact, polar bears are often at risk of overheating in the summer, when the sun beats down on them twenty-four hours a day, even without high-tech, heat-absorbent fiber-optic fur.

Woohoo! Finally caught up on reviewing the artwork in this thread!

WHOA! You saw a basking shark while diving?! :blink: That's incredible! I can definitely understand how seeing one of those would send your heart rate into the stratosphere; I've always thought they looked pretty intimidatingómore so than whale sharks, even though they're smallerówith such wide gapes, even if they are harmless (Well, unless they accidentally swept their tails into you or something…). Still, I would find it awesome to see one while in the water…though I'd have to learn to scuba dive first. About how far away were you from the shark when you saw it?

As for giant squid, personally I'd be more afraid of the giant beak and hundreds of saw-toothed sucker discs, but I agree that it would be pretty unnerving making eye contact with a creature whose eyes are nearly the size of your head. :blink:

Oh man. Cephalopods are sooooo baller <3. I imagine those are pretty competitive lab oppertunities, though, because really, who doesn't think Cephalopoda are awesome?

Hmm…you're probably right about that, now that I think about it. :unsure: Oh well; if cephalopods don't work out, I might go into bats instead.

As long as we're talking about cephalopods, did you hear about the giant squid being filmed in the wild for the first time? :! The Discovery Channel aired a special on it last week; overall I didn't like the show that much, but when they finally did show the squid footage, it was awesome!