Camelot Emblems and banners

WeirdRaptor · **on:** November 16, 2012, 08:21:56 PM

Are there any common images that have been used for Camelot's emblems and banners a lot, because if there are, I'd like to be pointed in the direction of some of the more recognizable ones.

If I posted this in the wrong place, feel free to move or lock this topic.

Malte279 · **Reply #1 on:** November 16, 2012, 09:11:28 PM

You mean as in the Camelot of the Arthurs legend?
I don't think there is a specific mention of a coat of arms of Camelot or Arthur in the old sagas, but there are many symbols.
Perhaps the most famous is the round table. It was so popular a symbol that some medieval lords ordered for their own round tables to be build. The most famous still existing example is exhibited in Winchester:

It was built in 13th century but the coloring and inscription of names was added in 16th century.
Symbols strongly associated with Arthur (not as much with Camelot as a place) are the swords Caliburn (the sword Arthur pulled from the stone and later broke in battle) and excalibur (the sword he got from the lady of the lake to whom he ordered it to be returned after he was mortally wounded. Excalibur is often depicted in the hand of the lady of the lake at the lake's surface:

Arthur's father Uther Pendragon is sometimes associated with a dragon on his shield, but I don't know if this was ever linked to Arthur. Sometimes Arthur has been attributed with the golden lion on red ground which became the coat of arms of England, but the association is more based on the attempts of later real monarchs to claim their rule as a continuation of Arthur's rather than any mention of such a coat of arms in early arthurian texts.
There are mentions of some coat of arms of specific Arthurian knights. Sir Gawain for example is mentioned in the tale of Sir Gawain and the green knight to have worn a red shild with a pentagram on it (the points of the star standing for the wounds of christ) and Mary painted on the inside of the shild if memory serves me right.
There is this page on Arthurian heraldic, but I only just found it and cannot really say to what degree coats of arms there are based on any texts or the phantasy of more recent authors or artists.

PS: ^ Without any reference to sources on the above page and it not being from some known institution I think that the coats of arms there are more likely recent interpretations.

Kor · **Reply #2 on:** November 16, 2012, 10:36:37 PM

In the book I have, The Arthurian Campanion by Phillis Ann Karr, a sort of encyclopedia of athurian stuff, it has 2 coats of arms for king arthur. both have a blue background with 1 having 3 gold crowns 1 on top of the other, the top on the larges and the one on the bottom the smallest. the other has 13 gold crowns in rows of 4, with 1 by itself at the bottom. His father King Uther has a blue background with 2 winged gold dragons backs facing each other and they are rearing up.

There isn't one listed for Arthur's uncle (Uther's older brother) Pandragon, their older brother Maines and father (Arthur's grandfather) king Constans, have none listed.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #3 on:** November 16, 2012, 10:39:08 PM

Thanks a bunch. I've been looking around for symbols to depict Arthurian knighs having on their flags, unforms, shields, and whatnot for a story I'm writing.

Malte279 · **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2012, 06:33:56 AM

^ That's interesting. These days I am doing a part on myths including Arthurian legends in my course on the middle ages in Europe. Did you read "The once and future king" by T.H. White? I consider that one a very interesting interpretation of the Arthurian legend mixed with many modern themes. There are many other books on the Arthurian legends with a huge range from books based closely on the old texts to books which are more of the modern fantasy genre and those which try to pick up some historical / archeological elements but mix them with modern "aesthetics" (e.g. in the 2004 film in which they depicted Arthur as the descendand of the Romans and refered to the Skytish mercenaries in the Roman army while on the other hand they let Guinevere run around in some type of leather bikini and abandoning almost every element of the original texts' plot :huh:).
What kind of story do you have in mind WR?
I do not want to be importunate, but this interests me and I'd be happy if ever I can provide any information or views (and of course on the later there are plenty which cannot be treated as just "right or wrong" in case of a mythological character where the existence of historical models is disputed)

Kor · **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2012, 02:12:54 PM

I like The Arthurian Companion since the author lists various sources she uses, including something called the Vulgate, a source older then Mallory's Le Morte De Arthur (or however you spell that) and mentions some conflicts between sources. Like she mentions the confusion between the 2 swords is largely due to Mallory (I've not read that book in ages so dont' remember) having Arthur getting 2 sword. One he pulled from the sword then another he got from rowing out to get from the lady of the lake. In the Vulgate, an older source, Galatine was the sword Arthur pulled from the stone, the he later gives to Sir Gawaine to use as his sword since as his Nephew he was also his Heir apparent. He gets Excalibur, as it's later called, from the lady of the lake. The Vulgate also mentioning Arthur having a third sword called Sequence, but mentions him using it only in mortal combat and Lancelot using it once while Arthur was captive in 1 story.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2012, 11:04:36 AM

I read that book a long, long time ago, but I might have to have another look.

Fantasy fiction. Camelot will factor into it somewhat peripherally.

Again, thanks for the tips, both of you.

Malte279 · **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2012, 11:58:38 AM

Just this week I heard an audio book with another modern rendering of the Arthur legend. In that modern adaptation a point was made out of the religious conflict between the older Celtic faith (represented especially by Morgause and Morgan le Fay) and Christianity (especially represented by Guinivere and Galahad). In that version the head of a dragon was named as a symbol of Uther Pendragon which Arthur originally adopted but later exchanged in favor of a cross.
The holy grail of course would be another strong symbol, alas one that symbolises so many things that "Camelot" would not be my first thought. I think that sword in a stone is a symbol most closely associated with Arthur and a round table a symbol most closely associated with the concept of Camelot.

Malte279 · **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2012, 05:15:43 PM

There is a medieval source depicting the three crowns as a symbol for Arthur. This image dates from 1385:

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2012, 09:28:00 PM

I've made a decision. I think I'll use the image of the Holy Grail. Thanks again, Malte. You've been a big help!