Valkyrie

[f-22 "raptor" ace]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNvReY8clSU does anyone plan on seeing this? I will see it because it is about when a few German officers plotted to take over the German WWII government from power and make peace with the Allies.

[Malte279]

I am probably going to see it (though I must admit that there are many movies still on my list of "going to see it movies"). One thing that was hotly debated over here was whether or not it was tolerable for a person who is a representative of a very unconstitutional organization (Tom Cruise's Scientology adherence) to play Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg. For all I know they were prohibited from shooting the movie at a couple of historical locations as a consequence.
Memory to the heroes of July 20th 1944 is held very high over here. Special respect, in my opinion, deserve those who were active in the resistance before it was obvious that the war was lost.

[Cancerian Tiger]

I am most likely going to see this film.  I find it interesting that this plot was never discussed in any of my history classes :huh:.

[f-22 "raptor" ace]

I am most likely going to see this film.  I find it interesting that this plot was never discussed in any of my history classes :huh:.

That's cause it's a little known event in WWII. The History channel had something on it a while back.

[Amaranthine]

This looks interesting. And I'm not surprised that this is a secret that's been kept away from the majority of people. I would be in complete shock if something like this wasn't attempting to happen.

[Nick22]

There was a cool show on National Geographic called 42 ways to kill Hilter, although only a handful were laid out in detail. I particularly liked the time bomb set up inside a pillar  and set to go off at around 9 pm omn the evening of a Hitler speech.. hilter cut his speech short otherwise he would have been killed when it went off. it went off only a few minutes after he left the hall. the valyrie plot was featured of course, and in most of the serious plots, chance thwarted the conspirators. Leaving the second  briefcase of explosives for example. A mock set up of the room showed that if both suitcases had been used, hitler would have been seriously if not fatally wounded.

[AvestheForumFox]

I am probably going to see it (though I must admit that there are many movies still on my list of "going to see it movies"). One thing that was hotly debated over here was whether or not it was tolerable for a person who is a representative of a very unconstitutional organization (Tom Cruise's Scientology adherence) to play Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg. For all I know they were prohibited from shooting the movie at a couple of historical locations as a consequence.
Memory to the heroes of July 20th 1944 is held very high over here. Special respect, in my opinion, deserve those who were active in the resistance before it was obvious that the war was lost.

I figured such a holiday would be of your respecting, Malte.. those men were trying to do something good for the German country by abolishing Hitler and the Nazi way.

I saw a special on it on the history channel... I find it sad that not allot of us know about these men. most especially most of us Americans

if they had succeeded in killing Hitler, they would had saved this world from a great many woes.

But allas, things never happened as they should had. And Hitler and his followers had their way up until their defeat...

but I do question having Tom Cruise play an important character.. I once vowed never to see another one of his films again... so I feel torn on my decision.

[Nick22]

had any of those attempts suceeded, history would have been very different. but you can say that about many things. had Lincoln had more security at ford's theather.. etc etc.

[landbeforetimelover]

This isn't exactly my kind of film, but I might see it if it's on TV or something.  I'm not going to intentionally download it, buy the movie, or see it in theaters though.

[f-22 "raptor" ace]

I saw a special on it on the history channel...

I also saw that before the history channel moved virtually all it's WWII programs to it's sister channel.

[Malte279]

That's cause it's a little known event in WWII. The History channel had something on it a while back.

There wasn't too much attention about this plot from the allied side back then either, and there is a reason for that.
Common perception was that the plot was not so much against Hitler or the nazi ideology, but rather against the obvious impending defeat. It was felt by many that the idea of the plotters was to remove Hitler as an obstacle to negotiations with the western allies about an alliance against the Soviet Union.
This perception is unfair in case of quite a number of participants in the plot who had had contact with the resistance movement well before it was obvious that Germany was to loose the war, and in some cases well before that war even started. Nevertheless there still is a certain dimension of truth, in case of some, to the far spread perception of the plot being against the military defeat rather than the tyranny of the regime.
It must be pointed out (as has been done in this thread already) that the assassination attempt of July 20th 1944 was by no means the first.

if they had succeeded in killing Hitler, they would had saved this world from a great many woes.

It is one of the big "What if's?" of history. One possible outcome of a successful assassination attempt of Hitler would have been everything but desirable. Suppose for a moment it had succeeded and the governing of Germany had been taken over according to plan of operation Valkyrie. The new government would have felt that it had done a major contribution to rid the world of Hitler and would have felt that it should not be treated like a defeated enemy. In particular I doubt the government would have been ready to give up large (if any) territories to the Soviet Union and some of the western allies (Churchill) would probably have been very eager in supporting any attempts to block any westward move of Soviet influence. The Soviet Union however, which suffered worse than any other major party in the war from German hands would not have accepted the bomb of an assassin to mulct her of territorial reparations for the incredible suffering the attack committed by Germany (same people under a different government now) had imposed upon Russia. The nuclear bomb had not been tested at that time and was not a factor to deter any country from waging war on each other.
This is of course the most gloomy possible result of something that might have spared the world the final year of WW2 (which included most of the bombing of towns and many million deaths) as well.

[Malte279]

I particularly liked the time bomb set up inside a pillar and set to go off at around 9 pm omn the evening of a Hitler speech.. hilter cut his speech short otherwise he would have been killed when it went off.

That one had been done by an individual rather than a group though. Georg Elser planted that bomb in November 1939. Hitler got away as he left early, 8 people were killed, 63 injured.
What makes me dislike bombs as an assassination device. Is that not only they proved unreliable in killing Hitler. Apart from this case and the one of July 20th 1944 I know of three other attempts to kill Hitler with explosives (there may have been more such attempts. In one case Rudolf-Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff actually meant to make a suicide attack blowing himself up along with Hitler. His explosives had a time fuse though and once again Hitler left early.
Bombs used to kill an individual pose an immense risk to other, potentially innocent people, (not all of the attempts were carried out at locations where there would be high ranking military personal only) while missing the main "target".
Willing to be killed in the process it might have been better if Rudolf-Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff had shot Hitler.

[jedi472]

Just saw it. This is a really good movie, and Cruise actually does great. Go see this one.

[f-22 "raptor" ace]

I saw it tuesday I thought it was awesome it really gives another view of the war.

[landbeforetimelover]

Just looked and Comcast has it on demand, but it's not free yet. I'll have to wait until then.  I'm too lazy to download it.  Besides.....with only 2 computers that can be set up at one time, the only computer I can download it on would be my laptop that has 4gb free.  A 320gb hard drive just isn't enough. <_<

[Malte279]

I went to see it with a friend last Thursday.
Personally I think it was okay, not brilliant, but okay. They certainly did try to make it historically accurate, but several times strayed from history for dramatic effect. They exaggerated the chance of success of the plot after the failure of the assassination attempt (pretty much suggesting that it would have been successful anyway had it not been for the officer in the intelligence office decision on whose messages to pass on). The scene with Goebbels preparing to swallow a cyanide capsule in case he was to be arrested was also an invention for the sake of dramatic effect. Some people were, in my opinion and from what I read, presented in too negative a light. Most strikingly Friedrich Olbricht and Carl Friedrich Goerdeler were presented like they had done nothing but slowing things down and messing things up which Stauffenberg had done alright; I do not think this did these two men justice.
There are also some rather funny blunders. For example they seem to presume German church windows to be rather solid. We see a church with a bombed roof, but the stained glass windows are perfectly intact and in place (in fact most of these stained glass windows were taken out to protect them from damage when the bombing began).
During the scene of the execution of Stauffenberg, Haeften, Obricht, and Quirnheim there was the most striking case of visible movie equipment I ever encountered and I wonder how this one could escape the people in the post production office. Historically they were shot in front of a pile of sand, in the movie you could see that they had built up a wooden wall with sand spanning the whole courtyard of the Bendler Block. Everything, the wooden wall as well as the poles which supported this requisite were completely visible.
Still, the movie was not bad. They could have done better but it had been feared by many that they would do dreadfully worse than they did.

[Cancerian Tiger]

I just watched this lastnight, and my nerves were shot the entire time due to the suspense.  I nearly cried when they were executed at the end, along with seeing how others were executed.  Being hung by thin wire hooked to meat hooks was a slow death for those poor individuals .  I was shocked at the one (I can't remember his name) who blew himself away with a pistol.  'Tis much more honorable to be executed for trying to take out a monster like Hitler than to take one's own life.  I hold individuals who were executed for treason 'cuz they were trying to end tyranny to a high esteem .

Coincidentally, yesterday there was a special on Operation Valkyrie on the History Channel.  I'm sure history buffs here would've liked it .