Who animated who?

Sovereign · **on:** October 06, 2012, 11:07:31 AM

I've tried to look for information of the directing animators of original Land Before Time and their work. I haven't found anything useful, only rumors and LBT wiki ( which isn't a very reliable source of info.) I'm really interested in the subject so it would be very nice to learn more about LBT's animators' work. Does anybody know about this?

Petrie · **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2012, 10:30:03 AM

At most, you can read off the list of key animators from the film credits. I can almost guess with certainty that Don Bluth had a hand in character design. He has shown stuff on his website that proves he is more than capable of drawing the characters.

Sovereign · **Reply #2 on:** October 08, 2012, 01:14:47 AM

Don Bluth wasn't an animator in LBT. He might have have designed characters but the directing animators (and character animators) did the real drawing work. Haven't anyone asked Don or someone in an old interwiew anything about animators? I only know that Linda Miller animated Spike hatching scene and Gary the tar scene (or some parts of it) . Isn't there any other information given?

FreckledOne · **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2012, 03:06:27 PM

A book that I have says that John Pomeroy was a supervising animator, but it doesn't tell what scenes he did (though I think he at least animated the scene where Littlefoot's mother says "Some things you see with your eyes, others you see with your heart", and maybe the fight between Cera and Littlefoot).

I wouldn't really say that Don Bluth didn't do any "real" drawing on the movie. :huh:

Sovereign · **Reply #4 on:** October 08, 2012, 03:28:40 PM

Could you tell which book it is? John was only one of the directing animators but I'd imagine the most influential one considering he was one of the founding members of the Don Bluth Productions (aka Sullivan Bluth Studios).
I didn't mean that Don didn't do much work but at least to my knowledge he didn't animate any scenes. Then again Gary did and he wasn't a credited animator so perhaps there are a few Bluth animated scenes as well?

FreckledOne · **Reply #5 on:** October 08, 2012, 03:55:59 PM

Sure!
It's called Don Bluth's The Art of Storyboard, published by DH Press in 2004. There are also some color keys from The Land Before Time in there that I should scan.

From what I have gathered, Don tends to pick up the slack if there are scenes that need to be animated, so he probably did animate a little on the movie. Sorry for the confusion, I just get kinda protective of my favorite animators

No hard feelings?

Sovereign · **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2012, 01:13:36 AM

Yep, no hard feelings.
Sorry if I get a bit repetitive but is the book just a storyboard teaching book or does it tell about the making of Bluth's films? I'm bad at drawing so knowing how to storyboard would be a bit useless for me.

(considering if I should purchase it).
If Don is one of your favourite animators, do you know some scenes he has animated (LBT or otherwise)?

FreckledOne · **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2012, 02:36:42 PM

To be honest, it is mostly a how-to book on storyboarding, but it has lots of examples from The Secret of NIMH, Dragon’s Lair, All Dogs go to Heaven, Anastasia, and Titan AE. It’s worth having to just look at the pictures.

Some of the scenes that I’m relatively sure Don animated are as follows:

Robin Hood – The part where Robin has to save that little rabbit (whose name is Tag Along apparently :! ) from the guards, and the infamous dancing scene that reuses footage from Snow White (the footage that Don was pretty much forced to use; he hated having to do that)

The Rescuers – Where Bernard and Bianca search the zoo and when they get to Medusa’s pawn shop

Winnie the Pooh and Tigger Too – The part in which Rabbit freaks out in the woods

Banjo the Woodpile Cat – Where Banjo and his sisters are on the roof of the house

Unfortunately there’s not a whole lot of information on the making of The Land Before Time (as I’m sure most people here know by now from searching for cut scenes), so I don’t really know what parts Don had a direct hand in. I do know that he drew all of the storyboards in this book except for one. Most other studios have separate artists for the storyboards but Don draws most of them for his movies.

Sovereign · **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2012, 03:21:22 PM

I'm amazed about the lack of information about the production. After all this was the second highest-grossing animated film ever, so one would guess there would be more info available. If not from Don, then maybe from some of the important persons in the film (Gary Goldman, John Pomeroy and Morris Sullivan for example). Do they think no one's interested or just don't care about LBT? Everyone asks just about Nimh and nothing else from Don. (Even the same questions in many interwiews). Why doesn't anyone interwiew Lorna Cook or Dan Kuenster for example?
And I'm quite sure Don animated the fight between Jenner and Justin as well. He was a directing animator for Nimh and the Rescuers so there must be many more of his scenes there.
What were the sequences Don didn't storyboard in LBT?

FreckledOne · **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2012, 12:19:42 PM

I don’t really know why there isn’t more known about this movie either. It could be that Steven Spielberg and/or George Lucas knows, but

? I would personally love to know more about the making of LBT.

About the others involved with production, they may have websites where you can ask questions, but I haven’t seen them. I do have a DVD of Banjo the Woodpile Cat that has a couple of interviews with various people who worked on Bluth productions, but nothing I remember specifically about LBT.

I’m sure Don animated more on The Rescuers and The Secret of NIMH, I just haven’t gone thru and studied them closely in a while.

I also don’t really know which scenes Don did or did not board in LBT, but here are the lists of storyboard artists and directing animators from the credits:

Storyboard – Don Bluth, Larry Leker, and Dan Kuenster

Directing animators – John Pomeroy, Linda Miller, Ralph Zondag, Dan Kuenster, Lorna Pomeroy, and Dick Zondag

Sorry for taking so long to reply

Sovereign · **Reply #10 on:** October 19, 2012, 03:24:12 PM

Lucas and Spielberg wouldn't be very helpful. Lucas probably doesn't know very much and Spielberg is nearly impossible to contact.

I'm pretty sure none of the animators have websites because they wouldn't be too popular. Even Don's own website/forum is quite inactive.

I wonder if it would be useful to ask Don through the forum about LBT even though Don isn't very active and seldom answers questions concerning his films (especially LBT). He's more interested in training animators. And that forum costs <_<.

While Don waits for a producer for Dragon's Lair is there a chance he and Gary would write a book about some of their films (like Frank and Ollie did of Bambi)? I've heard he "plans" new books but I don't know what they would be about.

FreckledOne · **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2012, 03:06:30 PM

Well, the forum part doesn’t cost anything to use; it was just the Don’s Club part that required paid membership, and that has been put on hold for a while until he gets his new website up. Maybe when that happens he will answer questions again. I agree that the almost deserted forum is disheartening.

I would love if he’d write more books, but it seems like everything he’s been working on is on hold right now. But again, most of the books he's planned are about the technical side of animation. He really should write some retrospective books on his films.

And I'm still semi-convinced that Spielberg has a copy of the first cut of LBT somewhere. <_<

Sovereign · **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2012, 04:37:51 PM

Is Don creating a new website?
I don't think Don needs to write technical things about animation, after all we have Richard Williams' Animator's Survival kit and many others. What can Don add to those? He should invite Gary and John to write a good retrospective about one one of the greatest animation careers ever! (and Land Before Time). And more info about the animators and scenes would be very welcome.
What makes you believe in Spielberg's uncut version? He never was too interested in LBT anyway.

FreckledOne · **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2012, 01:05:34 PM

Yes. It's going to have the same address as the current one, so it will be more like a redesign.
As for the animation books, since every animator seems to have a different way of doing things I like reading different books on the subject written by various animators.

The Spielberg comment is really just a rumor that I heard

but I'm so desperate that I'll believe anything!

By the way, what are your favorite animated scenes from LBT?

Sovereign · **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2012, 02:06:29 PM

The battle between Sharptooth and Littlefoot's mother. Especially Sharptooth is very dynamic and masterfully drawn. His attacks are one the best things ever animated. Every Sharptooth scene is very good but the first one is easily the best. In fact I think it is better than the Monstro chase in Pinocchio which considered a masterpiece of dynamic animation.
Another great scene is where the little flier gives Littlefoot his berry. It is very simple yet very powerful and emotional. (animated by Lorna Pomeroy). The footprint scene is very well-thought and gentle. Death of Littlefoot's mother is excellent but I feel it could have been even more. Opening is technically challenging because of the water. And the backgrounds are simply awesome in the whole film, easily Don's best.
What do you think?

FreckledOne · **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2012, 03:27:10 PM

What do I think? Do you mean about your own favorite scenes? I think they are fine.

I like those scenes too, but I also really like the animation of Littlefoot's mother walking. It looks so powerful, like they were somehow able to observe a sauropod walking in real life!

Sovereign · **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2012, 02:07:26 PM

I agree that the walking is impressive in many scenes. When I asked what you think I meant your favorite scenes, not mine. But you answered that already.

Do you think it's possible to name the animator responsible for the scenes simply by studying their other work and comparing it them to the new scene? I think that would be interesting. Do you know any special features special to an particular animator?
Don for example? I know there are great differences between their work but shortage of examples makes this identifying hard.

FreckledOne · **Reply #17 on:** November 25, 2012, 02:43:13 PM

I think that it is very possible to identify the animator of a scene by looking for the animator's personal style.

Since I have been watching animated movies for so long, I've come to notice some scenes in movies that have certain features in common, and upon further inspection it turns out that those scenes have the same animator. This is what I have found for myself, so I may have made some mistakes, but here is what I know about some different animator's styles:

Don Bluth - everything he animates tends to move in arcs, especially the mouths of characters. His characters eyes tend to be smaller and further apart.

John Pomeroy - his animation is really smooth and he usually handles close-up shots of characters, but not always.

Nik Raniri - he animates moving holds very well; where the character doesn't move very much from place to place, but they make these subtle gestures and expressions. However he also animates over-the-top characters.

Glen Keane - his scenes are powerful, like he sculpts his drawings with the pencil; his forte seems to be capturing the feeling of the character. He draws eyes as being very set in the face with strong eyebrows.

You can also tell if a certain animation studio animated something. For example, I have noticed that a couple of scenes in a Disney direct-to-video sequel matched the animation in a completely unrelated Disney TV show. And the work of Kennedy Studios, for better or worse is immediately recognizable.

Sovereign · **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2012, 04:30:53 PM

Thank you for such a great piece of info.

Sorry if I'm being too precise but you say that Pomeroy does most of the close-ups of the characters? Is this the case in other animators' sequences as well? If so, some of Pomeroy's scenes would last only a few seconds. :blink:
Also you said that upon closer inspection you can find out the animator. Where can you find that information, if I may ask?
By the way, do you know some scenes animated by Dan Kuenster?. The only scene I know is in NIMH.

Kor · **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2012, 04:45:18 PM

It never occurred to me, but it makes sense, that artist would have a certain style.

I know in some animation the main company only does say every 2nd, 3rd, or 4th frame and they send it out to often overseas to do the inbetween frames, or some may use cheaper us companies.

I'm not sure of the exact details or when it started or who does it and if any don't.