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are you happy with the TV series?

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My views on the series are mixed.  On the good side, the series introduced Ruby, which is my favorite character from the franchise.  But on the other side, the series had very inconsistent writing with episodes such as the Bright Circle Celebration being a particularly bad example.

But between the two options provided, I suppose that I will have to vote yes.


Go ahead and check out my fanfictions, The Seven Hunters, Songs of the Hunters, and Menders Tale.



LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Quote from: Malte279,Jul 16 2012 on  01:56 PM
It is interesting how opposite our views in case of LBT V are. I found Littlefoot was a little too unconcerned and thoroughly trusting about Chomper. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Littlefoot should have had serious doubts about Chomper's faithfulness, but the degree of his openness was a little over the top in my opinion.
What was Chomper up to until he recognized Littlefoot and the others? I don't believe he was old enough to actually hunt and kill something of their size (though the working of his excuse (I had longneck for breakfast) suggests otherwise), but if that's so, why was he chasing them?
I find it kind of odd that LBT V on the one hand is the first ever LBT sequel to make a reference to Littlefoot's mother, but it is totally secluded from the plotline involving Chomper. I really think it would have been a good addition if there had been some kind of conflict of conscience for Littlefoot given the fate of his mother and the simple laws of nature. Cera was all along presented as the "bad one" for being cautious about Chomper, but was her extreme caution totally unsensible? Even if one did not suspect Chomper of any bad intentions he was clearly very naive about his parents who he was so certain wouldn't harm Littlefoot and the others that he led them straight to the place where they were waiting. Had Littlefoot and the others not jumped into the bushes in the very last second Chomper would have let his parents right to them. And right before Cera warns Littlefoot (who had asked Chomper if he wanted to take a bite) Chomper very much DOES look like he had misinterpreted to offer to refer to Littlefoot's leg. I suppose a depiction of a deeper inner conflict of Littlefoot in LBT V would have been regarded as too complex for LBT, but I still think that it would have improved the movie. Littlefoot's trust to Chomper in LBT V is unusual given the fate of his mother and the fact that he knew Chomper for but a few hours.

One more point I hold in favor of Ruby is the basic fact that she is one of the few female characters in LBT. Look at the characters added in the sequels, almost all of them are male. Ali, Tria and Tricia seem to be the only female characters of greater importance added throughout the sequels. There appear a few more (e.g. Elzy, Sue, Old One, possibly Dinah and / or Dana), but they are hardly characters whose significance is equal to that of many male characters in their respective movies (Hyp, Nod and Mutt; Chomper, Doc, Pterano, Mr. Thicknose, Mo, Bron, Guido etc.).
I think more likely as for Chomper's parents and Chomper, it was pretty well proven to be niavety, as Chomper never thought his parents would harm them.  What is even more shocking is that Chomper never even mentions what type his friends are (they could be fellow Sharpteeth for all they knew), yet they still said they wanted them to be dessert.  I was actually most shocked at that reply of Chomper's parents and wonder why they didn't try and eat Ruby.

Also, Chomper's look of astonishment when they say that is proof that he was up to nothing malicious.   I think his parents just happened to be nearby.  

Another problem is the Island itself.  Chomper may have been able to take a log across to get the Great Valley, but why would he feel threatened by Red Claw, Screech, and Thud, who, one would think, couldn't get to him on that island?



Malte279

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What is even more shocking is that Chomper never even mentions what type his friends are (they could be fellow Sharpteeth for all they knew), yet they still said they wanted them to be dessert. I was actually most shocked at that reply of Chomper's parents and wonder why they didn't try and eat Ruby.
Excellent observation! :yes
I don't think anyone has ever pointed out that one, but indeed that is remarkeable.
About the premisses for the start of the TV series we can only speculate. LBT V suggests that the island is problematic (not much to eat) for the sharpteeth, so they would probably have to leave before long. This would either suggest another natural disaster opening up the way to the island at least temporarilly (had that one as withdrawing water prior to a tsunami in one fanfiction) or a more complex plot allowing for at least Chomper to leave the island. It seems unlikely that he would leave his parents to starve, but maybe they suffered a different fate? Ruby says that she promissed to Chomper's parents that she would take care of Chomper; but why would they want her to take care of him?
There seems to be a certain probability that Chomper's parents are no longer alive by the time of the TV series. If one further speculated on a somewhat darker level, one could wonder if in case Chomper's parents are really dead Redclaw might have something to do with it (which would mark him as more than the everyday kind of sharptooth the gang is dealing with all the time). These are at least some thoughts I have in mind for a story I have never penned down though I did draw a few images based on it.


LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Quote from: Malte279,Dec 19 2014 on  09:17 PM
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What is even more shocking is that Chomper never even mentions what type his friends are (they could be fellow Sharpteeth for all they knew), yet they still said they wanted them to be dessert. I was actually most shocked at that reply of Chomper's parents and wonder why they didn't try and eat Ruby.
Excellent observation! :yes
I don't think anyone has ever pointed out that one, but indeed that is remarkeable.
About the premisses for the start of the TV series we can only speculate. LBT V suggests that the island is problematic (not much to eat) for the sharpteeth, so they would probably have to leave before long. This would either suggest another natural disaster opening up the way to the island at least temporarilly (had that one as withdrawing water prior to a tsunami in one fanfiction) or a more complex plot allowing for at least Chomper to leave the island. It seems unlikely that he would leave his parents to starve, but maybe they suffered a different fate? Ruby says that she promissed to Chomper's parents that she would take care of Chomper; but why would they want her to take care of him?
There seems to be a certain probability that Chomper's parents are no longer alive by the time of the TV series. If one further speculated on a somewhat darker level, one could wonder if in case Chomper's parents are really dead Redclaw might have something to do with it (which would mark him as more than the everyday kind of sharptooth the gang is dealing with all the time). These are at least some thoughts I have in mind for a story I have never penned down though I did draw a few images based on it.
As to that, I believe that is much less sinister.  Likely Chomper did something to offend Red Claw and had to run for it.  I doubt his parents are dead.  

As for why Ruby could return to her family, my theory is that she is NOT Red Claw's main target, but only got herself drawn into this by befriending Chomper.  If she left him, she could probably wander freely.  They make it quite clear that CHOMPER is Red Claw's target, and thus, he'd have to run.  Being with his parents would put them all in danger.  Ruby seems to have agreed to protect Chomper.  Also, the fact that Ruby would, at first, want to possibly go alone to Hanging Rock indicates that she is NOT the target of Red Claw, as she would, hopefully, have enough sense not to risk her life to do such a thing, knowing her parents would NEVER want to run the risk of her being a meal for Red Claw just to come see them.  


Another thing is that there is one Red Claw and one Screech and Thud.  If there is only three of them in total, then why couldn't Chomper's parents, plus Ruby's parents, plus Chomper and Ruby be able to take them out alone?   Perhaps Red Claw has a whole league of minions, and Screech and Thud just happen to be his bodyguards or something


As for the starvation danger, I suspect that is passed as years have gone by, no doubt, since the fifth movie events.  If they didn't die of hunger earlier, they probably aren't in danger now.

While losing his parents to a crazy Sharptooth psychopath would enable Chomper and Littlefoot to bond better due to mutual experiences, I doubt that is the case.

Also, if Screech, Thud, and Red Claw HAD indeed killed Chomper's parents, one would have surmised that Chomper would have let Thud stay trapped there and starve to death as payback.

As for the island, they may no longer be on it.  There may be another path off of it or something.     Chomper and his parents couldn't have explored the island fully as they had no idea the plated Sharptooth was there.   (Also, considering that the parents COULD have left, regardless, until the tsunami, they needn't have just looked for food on the island.   :D  )


Bruton the Iguanodon

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Quote from: Malte279,Dec 19 2014 on  09:17 PM
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What is even more shocking is that Chomper never even mentions what type his friends are (they could be fellow Sharpteeth for all they knew), yet they still said they wanted them to be dessert.
Holy shit...I was just thinking about that scene the other day and realized exactly that.  :wow

I think it would be interesting if they were brought back. I remember thinking when I first rediscovered LBT in the spring of 2011 how useful they could be to the residents of the great valley...but I'm starting to think now that maybe re-antagonizing them would be a more interesting idea!  :smile


LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Quote from: Bruton the Iguanodon (again),Dec 20 2014 on  12:41 AM
Quote from: Malte279,Dec 19 2014 on  09:17 PM
Quote
What is even more shocking is that Chomper never even mentions what type his friends are (they could be fellow Sharpteeth for all they knew), yet they still said they wanted them to be dessert.
Holy shit...I was just thinking about that scene the other day and realized exactly that.  :wow

I think it would be interesting if they were brought back. I remember thinking when I first rediscovered LBT in the spring of 2011 how useful they could be to the residents of the great valley...but I'm starting to think now that maybe re-antagonizing them would be a more interesting idea!  :smile
That seems kinda dark there.  There is one HUGE problem with that.  If they hunt Littlefoot again, will Chomper fight them or will he just step aside and watch, or God forbid, join in?

Also, another thing I realized too is that Ruby can speak and understand Sharptooth, even if she never directly done in the TV series, yet, but, as Chomper's parents only seem to understand Sharptooth and not leaf eater, I don't see how she could have promised them anything if she spoke to them in Leaf Eater.  

And, the fact that they didn't find Ruby as "dessert" gives me hope that they have indeed changed for the better.

(Speaking of Ruby, you don't think she secretly might eat other dinosaurs too?  She eats clams.)  



Malte279

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As to that, I believe that is much less sinister. Likely Chomper did something to offend Red Claw and had to run for it. I doubt his parents are dead.
This however would suggest that Chomper doesn't see his parents (two adult sharptooth) as capable to protect him from Redclaw. You already answered to that problem by suggesting for Redclaw to be actually in comand of a much larger pack of Screech and Thud type sharpteeth. However, I don't think it would make much sense for too many sharpteeth to team up like that. Many fans in their fanfictions write about sharpteeth forming huge armies to destroy or to kill everyone.
I don't like such scenarios and don't see them as plausible. All the sharpteeth want is to eat. They wouldn't benefit at all from indifferentiated killing or from teaming up in groups too large to be supported easily by what "food" is around.
As for Chomper's saving Thud, in my story Screech and Thud wouldn't be around Redclaw by the time he kills Chomper's parents (who are protecting Ruby while Chomper himself is not around by that time). This fight (and a later "contribution" by Chomper) would leave the hitherto unnamed redclaw with the scar over his eye and the namesake red claw. Not only would this give an actual motive for Red Claw to go after Chomper, but it might also explain why a hitherto lone sharptooth (feared even by his specimen for his aggressivity) would decide to accept / force into obedience Thud and Screech as his swift eyes and ears and (as you suggested) "bodyguard" in the aftermath of an injury that made him realize he is not invulnerabe.
Ruby's role may be quite significant for Chomper's development. In my story (the beginning of which would be shortly after LBT 2 while the arc of the trilogy would span to the beginning of the TV series) Ruby is actually the one to teach Chomper "leafeater language" (which I don't expect he could have learned within the few first hours after his birth) and in the process of this teaching she might also start her habbit of repeating things in different word orders as a kind of teaching / learning game.
Ruby is an omnivore and could probably eat eggs too. In a later part of the story I have in mind this allows for her to interact with Ozzy and Strut (two villains I'd really like to see again) as a kind of "double agent" (trying to protect Chomper while pretending to be just another omnivore).


LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Quote from: Malte279,Dec 20 2014 on  06:26 AM
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As to that, I believe that is much less sinister. Likely Chomper did something to offend Red Claw and had to run for it. I doubt his parents are dead.
This however would suggest that Chomper doesn't see his parents (two adult sharptooth) as capable to protect him from Redclaw. You already answered to that problem by suggesting for Redclaw to be actually in comand of a much larger pack of Screech and Thud type sharpteeth. However, I don't think it would make much sense for too many sharpteeth to team up like that. Many fans in their fanfictions write about sharpteeth forming huge armies to destroy or to kill everyone.
I don't like such scenarios and don't see them as plausible. All the sharpteeth want is to eat. They wouldn't benefit at all from indifferentiated killing or from teaming up in groups too large to be supported easily by what "food" is around.
As for Chomper's saving Thud, in my story Screech and Thud wouldn't be around Redclaw by the time he kills Chomper's parents (who are protecting Ruby while Chomper himself is not around by that time). This fight (and a later "contribution" by Chomper) would leave the hitherto unnamed redclaw with the scar over his eye and the namesake red claw. Not only would this give an actual motive for Red Claw to go after Chomper, but it might also explain why a hitherto lone sharptooth (feared even by his specimen for his aggressivity) would decide to accept / force into obedience Thud and Screech as his swift eyes and ears and (as you suggested) "bodyguard" in the aftermath of an injury that made him realize he is not invulnerabe.
Ruby's role may be quite significant for Chomper's development. In my story (the beginning of which would be shortly after LBT 2 while the arc of the trilogy would span to the beginning of the TV series) Ruby is actually the one to teach Chomper "leafeater language" (which I don't expect he could have learned within the few first hours after his birth) and in the process of this teaching she might also start her habbit of repeating things in different word orders as a kind of teaching / learning game.
Ruby is an omnivore and could probably eat eggs too. In a later part of the story I have in mind this allows for her to interact with Ozzy and Strut (two villains I'd really like to see again) as a kind of "double agent" (trying to protect Chomper while pretending to be just another omnivore).
I also think Chomper would be really hateful of Red Claw is Red Claw had killed his parents.  

Anyway, we still don't even know WHY he'd go after Chomper or his parents.  Sharpteeth normally leave each other alone.  Usually they'd have to fight over food, or, in the case of Chomper and his parents and the evil Sharptooth on the island, it would be protecting family members.  



LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Also, Chomper's parents' strange comment about viewing Chomper's friends as dessert, even though, as of yet, they didn't know what type they were, isn't the only strange thing I saw between them.

In Great Valley Adventure, one of them tries to bite Ducky, who was on the nose of the other.  Ducky gets away and the one that she was on the nose of got bitten by the other.

For a while, if you look closely, you can see the two fighting each other, before noticing the leaf eaters, looking at each other, and then going after them.

Perhaps it was just a marital fight where one was like "Nice going genius.  You bit me in the shnoz!"  and they fought before realizing the leaf eaters were getting away.


Another strange thing is that they seem to ignore Littlefoot both when he is stuck in the log and it almost seems like they'd have spotted him or smelled him.  (Perhaps Chomper told them to back off, but that doesn't explain then why'd they be after Littlefoot again in movie V.)  Also, they ignored LIttlefoot in the scene when they chased Ozzy and Strut too, despite Littlefoot being dangled by Ozzy (how did Littlefoot get back up on the edge by the way?)  right in front of them.


Also, it seems that Chomper DOES understand leaf eater even in II, because Littlefoot says stuff and he will shake his head and stuff like that like he understands it.  Also, he heard Littlefoot calling for help when Ozzy and Strut were gonna throw Littlefoot off the Great Wall.  

Also, back to the TV series, has anyone noticed that quite some time appears to have gone on during the series as they appear to have winter starting in one and winter ending in another and spring or summer at other times?



LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Has anyone noticed that Chomper and Ruby are staying the night in some cave (that seems to be between the Great Valley and the Mysterious Beyond)?  i.e., they're not being allowed to spend the night directly IN the Great Valley.


Do you think enough of the grownups feared Chomper (and heck, maybe Ruby too) would try and eat their hatchlings in the night when it would be very easy to do so?


In other words, they trust Chomper enough to let him wander, with Littlefoot & co, during the day, where they can act if he tries anything carnivorous, but they fear he might do something at night when it would be all too easy to eat hatchlings and run off in the night, unpunished.  Why else would he wanna sleep in a, sometimes leaking, cave?

Also, I just realized ANOTHER oddity surrounding Chomper.  He goes by the name of "Chomper" despite it being given to him by Littlefoot and despite the fact that, one would surmise, Chomper's  didn't know Chomper was friends with Littlefoot anymore than one would have thought Grandpa and Grandma Longneck knew about Chomper.   Why didn't his parents give him a different name?  I mean, usually parents name the child, not (to them) edible leaf eaters.)  

(I personally wonder if Littlefoot mentioned Chomper this time when the grownups may have asked "where ya been?" at the end of V and they found out about and most approved of him.)  






Bruton the Iguanodon

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Quote from: Malte279,Dec 19 2014 on  09:17 PM
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What is even more shocking is that Chomper never even mentions what type his friends are (they could be fellow Sharpteeth for all they knew), yet they still said they wanted them to be dessert. I was actually most shocked at that reply of Chomper's parents and wonder why they didn't try and eat Ruby.
Excellent observation! :yes
I don't think anyone has ever pointed out that one, but indeed that is remarkeable.
Dang! I was literally this close to being the first one!  Just... dang!  :neutral

I'm sorry, it's just I had honestly thought that up just a few days before LittlefootAndAliTogether did and knowing I could have been the first one... :neutral

LittlefootAndAliTogether, you must be a mindreader.


Malte279

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Has anyone noticed that Chomper and Ruby are staying the night in some cave (that seems to be between the Great Valley and the Mysterious Beyond)? i.e., they're not being allowed to spend the night directly IN the Great Valley.
We don't really know if they are not allowed to stay in the Valley during the night or if they live in the cave by choice (how do we know the cave is not inside the Valley?).
Curiously we do get an episode in which Chomper in particular has a problem with the dripping water inside the cave but we have never ever seen any of the others sleeping in the open in times of rain and thunderstorm. Most of the time the cave would seem like the more sheltered sleeping place.


LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Quote from: Bruton the Iguanodon (again),Dec 21 2014 on  02:59 AM
Quote from: Malte279,Dec 19 2014 on  09:17 PM
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What is even more shocking is that Chomper never even mentions what type his friends are (they could be fellow Sharpteeth for all they knew), yet they still said they wanted them to be dessert. I was actually most shocked at that reply of Chomper's parents and wonder why they didn't try and eat Ruby.
Excellent observation! :yes
I don't think anyone has ever pointed out that one, but indeed that is remarkeable.
Dang! I was literally this close to being the first one!  Just... dang!  :neutral

I'm sorry, it's just I had honestly thought that up just a few days before LittlefootAndAliTogether did and knowing I could have been the first one... :neutral

LittlefootAndAliTogether, you must be a mindreader.
Well, there is also the fact that Chomper keeps the name that Littlefoot gave him, despite the fact that his parents probably didn't know about Littlefoot.  On the other hand, if Chomper could remember that on his own, despite being so young, he's gotta be one of the smartest characters in the series.  Also, you'd think his parents would have given him a different name.)

Also, there is the fact that Chomper's parents seem to actually be fighting each other in Great Valley Adventure after one, wanting to bite Ducky, who was on the nose of the other, missed and bit the other, and they seemed to be fighting, until they noticed the leaf eaters, after which, they went after them instead.


jansenov

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About Chomper's name, it's quite simple. He has one name in one language, and another in the other. He'd allow the leafeaters call him Chomper simply because it is much easier for them than pronouncing his sharptooth name (considering how alien the sharptooth language sounds to the leafeaters, these two languages must be radically different from each other). This is common with humans, for example Chinese and Jews when moving abroad will often adopt a local name to fit in more easily, but continue using the old names in their respective communities. Before the modern age,  when converting to Christinaity or Islam, people would adopt new names for official purposes and continue using their old names in everyday life. The same thing was when people received Roman citizenship.


LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Quote from: jansenov,Dec 21 2014 on  07:32 PM
About Chomper's name, it's quite simple. He has one name in one language, and another in the other. He'd allow the leafeaters call him Chomper simply because it is much easier for them than pronouncing his sharptooth name (considering how alien the sharptooth language sounds to the leafeaters, these two languages must be radically different from each other). This is common with humans, for example Chinese and Jews when moving abroad will often adopt a local name to fit in more easily, but continue using the old names in their respective communities. Before the modern age,  when converting to Christinaity or Islam, people would adopt new names for official purposes and continue using their old names in everyday life. The same thing was when people received Roman citizenship.
Negative as to that.  His parents called him "Chomper" in Sharptooth if you read the closed captions in V.


jansenov

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^The subtitles are not in Sharptooth, but a Leafeater (English) translation. And translations need not be, and sometimes cannot be, literal.


LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Quote from: jansenov,Dec 22 2014 on  04:01 AM
^The subtitles are not in Sharptooth, but a Leafeater (English) translation. And translations need not be, and sometimes cannot be, literal.
Ummm, I don't know about that.  Leaf Eaters actually almost seem to have a language of their own, as can be seen in "Through the Eyes of a Spike Tail".  It is only there that we hear it in a non-human linguistic.