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Super Smash Brothers (all)

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KingdomKey23

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Heh, I might as well response to Tails. I'm in the bit of a debatable mood. :p


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Stage Creator: I'd rather have good premade stages than generic stage-creator-stages


After awhile a stage may get old. Also, you can recieve stages from other people, including from random strangers so it adds variety, and you don't have to make your own stages.

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No: Pichu, my absolute favorite character; Tails, I'm not shocked, but no Tails; Mewtwo, I didn't play Mewtwo as often, but I DID play as Mewtwo more than some that stayed, and really, the ICE CLIMBERS make it in?; For the record, though I didn't use these characters: Roy, and technically no Young Link, just Wind Waker Link, which Wind Waker was also a disappointment to me...; Wave Dashing! L Canceling (Some say, although other say it exists, so it's left to be decided); If I've seen correctly, there's no red shell... this seems like a crying shame...

Pichu was personally one of the worst characters in the game, and besides he was a clone of Pikachu, so it was really using the same character, except weaker. The fact that most of his attacks wasted health made him frustrating to use and Mewtwo was pretty good, but Lucurio not only copies some of his moves, but he is faster than Mewtwo, as Mewtwo was a bit slow. No offense, but you sound a bit biased with your opinion on Tails. For the record, only two more Third Party character other than Snake was allowed in the game and Sonic being the loved (well once loved) mascot of Sega got first pick, but Tails would be a horrible waste because he is not as nearly as popular as Sonic, and Tails would have been the third "Third Party" character, so it would have wasted better characters such as Megaman. Sadly, the Bluebomer did not get in, but negotiating with Sega again to get Tails would have been tough, so it feels like you want him in just because you like the most. I am a Tails fan too, but personally Tails would not be a good addition. Knuckles maybe, but Tails, no. Also, realize that this is a NINTENDO fighter, meaning the focus should be on Nintendo characters, but because the creator of MGS pratically begged Nintendo to let him in, they decided to.

Wavedashes- Wavedashes were personally annoying to me! Some people don't have fast hand movements, such as myself who has fine motor problems, however I do believe L-canceling and others will remain, but I hated the Wavedash. However, I do agree that the secret characters were a bit dissapointing. And you can't assume just because you haven't seen a red shell doesn't mean it's not in it. Perhaps it is unlockable since there is an enormous amount of secrets to unlock.


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Choice of return stages: RAINBOW CRUISE? RAINBOW CRUISE beat Fountain of Dreams??? Really?

Yes, really, because while Fountain of Dreams was a lovely stage, Rainbow Cruse actually had you moving around, and move to different locations to add various situations or strategies to the fighter. As beautiful as Fountain of Dreams was, you could not use the corse to the advantage of the other player.

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Remixed old songs: Why not just use... the old songs? I'll have to wait and hear them on my friends' system...

Not all of the songs are reused from Melee. Besides, it would get boring hearing the same old music we heard in the same game. The remixs make the music sound different, and from what I seen there are a whole bunch of new songs in the Brawl. Why are you putting emphasis on old songs when clearly there are new songs to balence it?


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No Online Upgrades: It was a stretch in my mind to begin with, but still a disappointment

Please explain where you heard the game will have no online upgrades, and please name another console game that had online updates. From what I seen, I never noticed any in Halo 2; other than recieving the new stages.


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Smash Ball: Stopping a game somewhat to commit an animation, tisk tisk tisk, AND I HAVE HEARD it SLOWS down the animation, that's a sin


For starters, not ALL of the animations require the characters to stop. For example when Fox calls his landmaster the other characters are still roaming around free on stage while he summons it, and on top of that the animation is 2 seconds. Why will 2 little seconds hurt? Also, I watched the videos; I have not seen a single slow down on the final smashes.

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The Final Smashes: Are apparently also unbalanced

Really? From my understanding most of them are easy to avoid as well.

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The very FACT: that they REMOVED characters, of course it's not a "pattern" if it only has 2 parts, but it would've been a nice pattern to have all the previous characters...


Most of the characters that were removed were clones, and in spite of the fact we have clones in Brawl most of the starting characters, including Sonic, Snake, and two of the unlockable characters have different movesets and all of those characters together with different movesets is around 25 characters; the exact same number as in Melee and most of the other Melee characters were clones, so it would be nice to have different movesets to experements.

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The Golden Hammer: Now there's a hammer with no... problems? That means it is the ultimate item, if you get it then you win until it's time is up... -.-;

The Gold Hammer maybe powerful, but it has faults. There are quotes taken from the offical Smash Dojo website.

Quote 1: "And it’s even more rare. " - Meaning the chances of getting the hammer is realtively low.

Quote 2: "This item also occasionally malfunctions..." This means that the hammer does in fact have fault. It may not work on characters and "occasionally" is a big word there.

Also, the Brawl Central website had this to say on the hammer, and they have kept in touch with people who played the game.

Quote 3: "Similar to the way the head of the normal Hammer falls off, the Golden Hammer may sometimes be a squeaky hammer, which will do no damage or knock back, leaving the user vulnerable to attack."

So you made an assumption on the golden hammer. It's not as powerful as "you" supposedly claimed it to be. :p


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Not that it breaks anyone's heart, but I am NOT buying this game.

(Whistles) To be honest you're not giving this game a fair chance, man. Have you ever heard of the expression, "Don't judge a book by it's cover?" That's what your doing. You can't hate a game just becaus you haven't played it, and some of your reasons have been speculations and not facts. You instantly assumed the Golden Hammer was overpowering, but I just gave you solid proof that you were wrong, so I really think you're jumping the gun about Brawl. Why not rent it first, because judging by your tone, you're slightly overacting about a game that people put so much time and effort into, and that's not being fair to them.  

Well, that's I all have to say about that. I look forward to your response.  :wave


Tails_155

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ACTUALLY... Sonic is the least popular character of the Sonic series among people I talk to, it's not my biasty, HOWEVER, in my biased opinion, Megaman is one of the WORST characters ever... Pichu provided a way for me to play with Pikachu's moveset without playing as my least favorite Nintendo character of all time... Pichu's taking damage added a challenge factor, to overcome a damage-adding fault, on a light character made for a good challenge for me, plus he was fast and fairly strong...

Lucario... why not just have a faster Mewtwo? Lucario is just taking an old idea and putting a mask on it...

No stage I've played on in Melee has gotten old to me, I haven't ever had remotely the same match twice...

Wavedashes are annoying to those who cant use it, but one shouldn't dumb a test down because the bar isn't hit, one should increase the education to reach that success... I can't do them either but I won't take the option away from those who can...

The "stopping" I refer to was a complaint from a couple reviewers who pre-ordered the Japan version

and removing clones to put others in seems illogical, Lucas is still a clone whether they want to say it or not... one could have just changed Pichu's moveset...

since when can one not use any course to one's advantage? Fountain of Dreams is a small level, it leads to less running away for a whole match, because it's a close-quarters, on Rainbow Cruise most of the battle is running away without fighting, I didn't buy a game to not fight...

Online upgrades are becoming more common, and while I'm not saying it CAN'T Happen, I'd figure it'd be a major announcement...

Unlockable items feel like a BAD idea, I don't want a game I have to unlock everything in, leave unlockables to trophies, a SMALL amount of characters, (Clones are good, because then you're allowed to play it with friends without spending twenty days unlocking) Unlockables may add to replayability for a while, but you know why people play these games? to play with friends, NOT one player... multiplayer...

I never said the songs were reused from melee, I meant if the original song is fine, why remix it? I don't have a strong dislike for this one, because I don't know the quality of the remixes, it was just a complaint I read, so I figured I may have to watch out for it...

just because ALL don't require it, doesn't mean none of them do..

by unbalanced I don't mean impossible to avoid, I mean, Mario's may be tenfold of Ice Climbers or something

I don't understand why we're making item clones if we're not making character clones, and making it so a hammer weilder can't fall in pits is what I don't like, it means that EVERYONE is ALWAYS vulnerable to something that was designed for avoidability... if I can't avoid it it's not fun (and if you're saying this contradicts my rainbow cruise argument, I don't mind dodging in fights, but just constantly dodging is no fun)

Why remove Game and Watch? He was original and creative; not to mention a fitting tribute to Yokoi

now about my despise for unlockables:

Let's look at some of the previous chores used to unlock things...
Sure some of these are for dedicated players such as trophy collectors, but most of them couldn't get all the trophies anyway, not everyone lives in Tokyo and LA...

15 Minute Melee: I don't want to sit for 14 minutes and 40 seconds, get screwed and have to REDO it when I just want a stage...

Cruel Melee: since it was for a trophy it's not so bad, but... this seemed way excessive (though I got it with Pikachu XD)

Break the Targets: There's always someone who I COULD NOT do it with... One thing that was just so stressful I never would go back...

Medium with 3 lives: Harmless, but I just want my characters for multiplayer... come on...

Event Matches: These are a treat... unlock a character by fighting without fighting, and it always seemed rigged, halfway leaning towards them... wubbofet or w/e after the same... and they get Lugia after Lugia... come on...

Luckily it didn't unlock anything: Lethal Marathon, I'd rather get my eyes pierced with rusty nails...

Some of the Event matches that unlocked things were so stressful I figured I just wouldn't use them... not a good way to get people to enjoy a game...

And further on Tails, he seems to have the largest plethora of moves from games... Sonic is mainly roll and run... and a bit of jumping, Tails can use Tail Whip, the Kirby/Jigglypuff fly... kicks and punches of course... the bombs from Tails Adventure, lasers, and really, why is that wrong?


KingdomKey23

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I do admit Sonic has lost popularity, but people still consider him the popular one of the Sonic group and he does overshadow Tails quite a bit, and this is something I read on Wiki, but Wiki is bull, so I'm not going to go by that. Megaman not being popular is your opinion because Megaman is one of the most reconizable characters in video game history, and you're one of the many who don't like him. I have played a few games of him already and I actually like the little guy, so I may actually try a few more of his games, but he scales over other characters such as Tails because of his popularity, and let me reiterate that this game is a Nintendo fighter starring Nintendo characters, so you can't have a large cast of characters outside of it. I guess I was a little too strong about Tails not being a good choice; he could actually be good, but since Sonic is the central character of the game he has first pick, so it was inevitable that he wouldn't get in. Also, Sonic is a lot more popular than you think man. True his games have been going down hill, but a lot of people still consider him a great character over everyone else.

Mewtwo is actually a bit on the slow side. It wouldn't make much sense to make Mewtwo appear faster in the next installment of Smash Brothers. I took a look at Mewtwo's stats and compred them to Lucario. Lucario is a much better and agile character than Mewtwo, so you reallly can't just go and change Mewtwo's stats.

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Why remove Game and Watch?

Um, dude, Game and Watch is in the game.


As for the Melee Stages I never got old of them either, but after awhile you'd be able to recognize every area in the level, and it would just make it easier to take advantage over character. With the stage builders every time will feel different, and it will add challenge to it.

As for the music I've listen to the remixs songs and I must say they are pretty good. You should listen to them yourself before you make that call.

Besides, for Pichu, one of the new characters in the game makes up for his absences. (I don't know if I should reveal who it is due to spoilers, but he adds a lot of challenge just from playing as him) Pichu may add challenge, but after awhile playing as him just gets annoying; his disadvantages really outweight his advantages, and now and then you'd actually like to win. I know it's about not about winning or losing, but once in awhile you'd like that accomplishment. I would perfer Game & Watch because he is a hard character to work with, but he adds challenge; Pichu is just too annoying to use.

Wavedashing was originally a glitch in the game in case you're wondering, so I am guessing they removed it because of that. Besides, have you ever considered that there may be another glitch that could be used to one's advantage? When were waiting for Melee do you think we were expecting the Wave Dash? Same rule applies: maybe there is a glitch that will work to the player's advantage in Brawl.

As for the slow downs with the game, just because some people think it's bad doesn't mean everyone hates it. An offical Japanese magazine (which I forgot the name of) gave the game a 40/40, so they must have found the game to be fantastic. People are going to have different views on it, but they can't do that unless they experence it first hand. That's like saying: I hate carrots, but I haven't even tried them.

As for Fountain of Dreams; you got a point, but realize that there are a few stages similair to fountain of dreams. In fact one looks exactly like it, but with different backgrounds. So I can't really see what you're complaining about it. It's basically the same stage with different backgrounds, but it's not related to the Kirby series.

As for online upgrades I'm still waiting for an example about where they are becoming common in console games. Super Smash Brothers is not World of Warcraft; it's a fighting game and considering this is one of the few that go online it may proof difficult to incorporate new features. Also, the Wii isn't exactly the powerful one of the three consoles, but Brawl offers different online modes for fun. Also, the Wii does do online upgrades now and then, so we may get updates.

Returning to the Hammer, the hammer is the ONLY item clone in the game. Every other item is different, so I can't see why you're bothered by just one clone. Besides, you really have to jam the buttons to float in the air with the hammer, so you can still fall of the cliff, and your hand may get tired, so it does have another disadvantage.

BTW, when I meant unlockable items I wasn't saying there were any to unlock. In fact there probably aren't any. It would appear kind of stupid to have to unlock items, but I only said that because you were again "assuming" the red shell wasn't in the game. If you can provide me solid proof, then okay, I understand.

I think one of the things about the Multiplayer is you put too much stress on it. The single player modes add different experences and challenges, and also, what if you were to have no friends? Most've my friends were online, and I didn't have offline friends except for my brother, so wouldn't you like a different experence sometimes. Multiplayer is awesome, but sometimes you may want to check out the other features.


As for the event modes, they found a way for people to unlock certain things without necessarily going through them. In the vault menu you can use hammers to unlock new features Also, the event modes now have a difficulty range and on top of that, the break the targets were also made easier. There are about 5 different break the targets, but that's about it....I think. I'm not sure.

Again, you really are not giving this game a chance. Just because someone says it isn't good doesn't mean you should go by it. When it comes down to it you have to make the final call by experencing it youself, and that's really not fair, wouldn't you think? What if I wrote a story with this sort of concept, and I told you about, and you think it's horrible, without even reading it? You have to give the game a fair chance, and I'm a bit upset by that. Not because I'm a fan but because you fail to actually give the game a fair chance. I personally thought some things sucked when I first saw them, but when I really sat down with it, I came to realize it was awesome and I misjudged it.

So, really, give this game a chance. You may actually like it, and in that same token, maybe I'll actually hate it. XD


Tails_155

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referring simply to the Pichu thing: I win about 25 times as much as I lose when I play as Pichu, and this is fighting my good friends, I think the speed and strength are great, and I've made it to 250 some % damage as Pichu in a plain match without getting KOed... it's about what one is good at, and Pichu is just fast enough, that even if I didn't dislike Pikachu, I'd still choose Pichu over Pikachu any day

From what I hear, Gears of War has patches quite often apparently... but I can't know, I don't have the game...

I have heard the game is almost beginner-slow though, that's what bothers me, I think that Melee was perfect speedwise, the Japanese are apparently more interested in a slower game according to a few reviewers, but Americans (according to reviews I've read, not necessarily ALL) seem to like a faster fight, the 40 out of 40 is very unique for the magazine in question, but I'm not saying the game won't be amazing, I'm saying I, PERSONALLY, in my own mind, only me, myself, am deciding, for me, that I don't like what I've read of the game, I may play at a friend's house, but I will NOT rent or buy until I have, because I am not satisfied with the various reviews I've read in totality... I am interested in the character in question though, go ahead, just make a spoiler alert for other people..

and I stand corrected on the Game and Watch, missed that one


KingdomKey23

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Heh, it's kinda ironic. Mostly everyone considers Pichu to be the worst character and most were relived to hear he was out of Brawl, and then out of everyone I see one person who actually despises the fact that he wasn't included in Brawl. I guess everyone has a different taste in characters, but again, at least rent the game? It wouldn't hurt to actually give it a try before you make the final call. If you play it and are dissapointed, that's fine, but the fact that you haven't even tried it yet is a bit shallow. At least give it a try. Maybe you'll run into the fourms going: OMG TEH BEST GAME EVA! or OMG I HATEZ DIS GAME SO MUCH I BURNZ IT INTO DE GROUND! You can't really hate something you haven't played, you know?

And maybe the Jap version of Melee was slower. I recall that pal versions of games are considered faster. Perhaps that's also the reason the American version was pushed back to March; maybe to make some changes. I'm sure we in the United States have different tastes in games.


Tails_155

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but I can, I wouldn't go out and rent every car to decide which I wanted, I'd rather read about them, and pick the one I like... and the only rental store in town is all the way ACROSS town... besides, I like using my money on things I am certain I like...

As far as Megaman, I know he IS popular, it was my opinion, I loathe the character, because he is the main character of a series which didn't even seem to UPGRADE its engines between games, just patch new levels on it... it's a personal discrimination; Mario is going that way now too, but not in the platformers, which change a bit each time at least, but in the Mario Party 1-8 + DS, Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf... etc... but that's another topic...


KingdomKey23

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Well, the only difference between a car and a video game is price. I mean renting a game at blockbuster would be cheaper than buying a rentable car which I'm sure costs more, and on top of that a car is more of a pain in the butt to deal with than ploping a game in a system..oh, you get my drift. :p We're not hear to talk about car rentals, are we? XD


Tails_155

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intended analogy, sir, money, in any value, is still money... I am more comfortable with others' reviews, especially if they know what they're doing, than buying or renting a game and deciding for myself when I'm trying to save up for college


KingdomKey23

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The thing is I don't exactly listen to what a lot of reviewers say. In the past I've had people say one thing about a game, but then I played the game and I had the exact opposite reaction about. Sometimes you can't go by what the crowd says. You hate the Megaman series, but yet so many more love it, so you go, "I've played these games, but I don't like them." Sometimes I even shake my head at poor reviews people make. I'm not saying every review is inacurate, but you may feel differently from what everyone else is saying.

Even right now I disagree with you on some of the points you made on the upgrades with the Mario sports games, though Tennis is really the only one I liked. In spite of the updates, the gameplay was just so fun that you could forgive it. I even find some fun in the Mario Party games. :p

But I guess it would be fruitless to continue to pursue this debate, obviously you're going to stick to what you believe and I have no control over that. I think I said all that there is to say (besides I'm starting to fall asleep over here. XD) So I'm just gonna wait for Brawl in March, play it, and enjoy it to the best of my ability. I still envy Japan for getting it, and hopefully it will live up to the hype. Till next time, Tails, you take it easy.

KingdomKey23


Tails_155

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k c ya :p I'm not saying I won't play it, I'm saying I won't spend money on it until I am certain it's worth my money


Kor

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I don't have a console but perhaps, unless you already have, you can talk about what you hope the Wii version will have, features, characters ect, to help get it back on topic as well.


WeirdRaptor

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Well, for characters, I was hoping to have Sora from Kingdom Hearts
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


KingdomKey23

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I dunno why, but I feel that Sora wouldn't have fit in there. And this is ironic coming from a KH fan, but I just feel the roster would feel slightly out of place with him in it. I don't he is suited for a Smash Brothers game, but I can't really explain why. X_X


Flathead770

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I think that 3rd party characters should be kept to a minimum in my opinion. Snake and Sonic are fine. As for my thoughts on the roster, im fine with it. Theres only about 5 clones out of the 35+ characters and to tell you the truth, im kinda glad there still clones as 2 of them are my best characters. The only one i don't understand is why they put in wolf. Krystal i thought would've been better as she could have a more varied move list. At first i thought R.O.B. was the the dumbest choice, but after watching a couple of videos on Youtube, i think it might be a pretty interesting character, not to mention that it is a fresh and original addition to the roster. The newest features that im looking forward to in Brawl, excluding online, is the stage-creator and replays. There have been times in melee where some really funny things would happen and you just wish that it could've been recorded. I've always loved stage-creators in games so it came to no surprise that i love the inclusion of one in Brawl. Even though the creator is pretty basic, you can still make some pretty good maps (look at the videos on Youtube, Petrie put up a link a couple of posts ago). I also like how they made pretty much every 1-P mode co-op now, especially event matches, those look like fun! Those are all my thoughts on the game so far that i can think of. Can't wait to Brawl with everyone here! If you want, you can add me to your Wii friend list, my Wii number is in the Nintendo Wi-Fi connections topic.


Petrie.

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*wipes hands*  I just got all the crap from the ceiling off. :rolleyes:

Now where were we?

Oh yes, Brawl.  I've seen quite a few videos already from people playing, and so far it looks like Sheik, Marth, and Lucario are very strong characters, and if a person is very good with them, they'll be hard to beat.  A couple of videos say they've been done as online gameplay (which I don't doubt) but I always wonder if lag causes some of the outcomes to be decided in the end.


Keni

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Quote from: KingdomKey23,Feb 3 2008 on  11:53 PM
I dunno why, but I feel that Sora wouldn't have fit in there. And this is ironic coming from a KH fan, but I just feel the roster would feel slightly out of place with him in it. I don't he is suited for a Smash Brothers game, but I can't really explain why. X_X
To be honest, Sora fits much better than Snake. I mean Sora is kind of cartoony already being in Kingdom Hearts and hanging around Disney characters.

And Sora has a lot of potential for some interesting final smashes. Either change to Valor Form, Wisdom Form, Master Form, Final Form and Limit Form. The possibility and fun factor can be endless with him being in the game and guessing which form you get for final smash.


Petrie.

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WeirdRaptor

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I never taunt. It leaves me open for attack.
"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf


Flathead770

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I only taunt after i ko a person on an 1 vs 1 and know there is enough time to pull it off.


Keni

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It's kind of fun pulling a taunt when you blow your opponent away. It's kind of like your way of saying "owned" XD

My friend does it a lot though, like every time he blows me away even when I manage to get back onto the stage. And to make it even more annoying he imitates the taunt in real life. He always picks Samus so...Yeah XD