Resident Evil

LBTFan13 · **Reply #60 on:** January 30, 2012, 06:50:29 PM

In my opinion, as long as it has the name on it, it is a Resident Evil game. I don't really care how it plays out. I love the franchise in all its gory glory.

Campion1 · **Reply #61 on:** January 31, 2012, 07:07:18 AM

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In my opinion, as long as it has the name on it, it is a Resident Evil game.

Only legally speaking, of course. By that thinking, the next RE could have freaking lazer shooting mutated enemies with platforming elements and cover based shooting for all we care.

Oh, wait!

LBTFan13 · **Reply #62 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:15:45 AM

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Only legally speaking, of course

Here's how I see it. Let's take a look at the one most people will point to as not being a RE game, RE 5.

Does it continue the storyline of the franchise? Yes

Does it involve any of the characters from past games? Yes

Does it involve an evolution of the original virus as well as newly evolved monsters? Yes

Does it include the same gameplay elements from any of the previous titles? Yes

I will admit, it was not as scary as previous games as there was more emphasis on action. I don't care. Because of the mentioned points above, it feels like a Resident Evil game to me.

Campion1 · **Reply #63 on:** January 31, 2012, 12:56:29 PM

Resident Evil never involved kicking your enemies in the face while simultaneously throwing incendiary grenades. It involved progressing through enclosed environments with barely capable weaponry and progressively dangerous adversaries who could kill you in seconds with one swipe or in a simple mass. RE4 took all of this and turned into into an fast paced action game. I loved RE4 as much as the next guy, but I could barely call it it an RE game, which I have noticed that many people share the same viewpoint. That is why I said it's only considered RE in a legal sense anymore. It has the trademarked story, characters and settings from the original games, but it's nothing like them. In fact, they were even remade as rail shooters.

Littlefoot1616 · **Reply #64 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:45:37 PM

Quote from: bushwacked,Jan 30 2012 on 04:13 PM

Now they just seem like stereotypical action games.

Forgive my objection but what exactly would you class Survival Horror as? It is a sub-genre of action/adventure so, what exactly does that statement imply? I know this is an age old argument amongst fans of the series. The banter over which "style" of Resi is better (to which I'm not particularly mindful of; i.e. I like both). I'm curious as to what exactly is so despicable about the new formula of Resi that warrants such hostility? There has to be more to it other than the simple mindset that people just don't like change. If that was the case, complacency and repetition within the series would just bring about the argument that there is nothing new to the series and it's becoming old and stale.

bushwacked · **Reply #65 on:** January 31, 2012, 02:55:27 PM

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Forgive my objection but what exactly would you class Survival Horror as? It is a sub-genre of action/adventure so, what exactly does that statement imply? I know this is an age old argument amongst fans of the series. The banter over which "style" of Resi is better (to which I'm not particularly mindful of; i.e. I like both). I'm curious as to what exactly is so despicable about the new formula of Resi that warrants such hostility? There has to be more to it other than the simple mindset that people just don't like change. If that was the case, complacency and repetition within the series would just bring about the argument that there is nothing new to the series and it's becoming old and stale.

I'd class a survival horror game as a game which actually tried to scared me, or at least creep me out a little. Resident Evil 5 didn't do that once. It just threw loads of action scenes at the player, which isn't a bad thing in itself. But if I buy a game that's part of a horror series, that's not what I personally want. And I agree with you that if there wasn't any kind of change to the series, it would face the problem of getting stale. But the change it went through completely altered the genre, which I feel is going too far.

I'm not trying to be hostile and I'm not trying to stop anyone here from liking Resident Evil. I feel the same way about Silent Hill: Homecoming. The previous games in the Silent Hill series are some of my favourite games, and I loved the way they took the time to set up some decent scares. Silent Hill 5 seemed to shift its focus to action and I was left disappointed.

Maybe it's because the protagonists seem too powerful, which takes some of the suspense out?

LBTFan13 · **Reply #66 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:09:24 PM

I understand why the addition of more weapons/ammo and the shift to action strays RE 4 and 5 away from the roots of the previous titles, but in my honest opinion I think it was necessary for the game to even work out. Think about it. It was one thing when you were fighting mostly zombies in the older games, because they were slow, somewhat easy to kill and even easier to avoid, at least until they got into large groups. With 4 and 5, we were exposed to much more evolved and advanced biological viruses. The common enemy were no longer the Romero zombies that we are so used to, but one that retained a sense of intelligence, could communicate with one another and can pose more of a threat to you. There were definitely moments in both RE 4 and 5 that were intense as giant mobs of enemies came after me and tried to overwhelm me. In a scenario like that where the enemies are stronger and more advance, it would be unrealistic to go at them with limited ammo and weapons. Sure that's what makes survival horror, but it would make the game impossible. It only makes sense that more ammo and weapons are added, but it doesn't necessarily mean you are automatically a powerhouse. You are still vulnerable to all enemies.

Besides, if you play RE 5 on professional it's almost damn near impossible even with all the weapons. One hit and your are immediately down. That makes the game even more tense.

Campion1 · **Reply #67 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:13:04 PM

I want clarify that I loved Resident evil 4 when I had bought it so long ago. Of course they had to innovate at some point after so many similar games (fixed camera, literally same mechanics) but it wasn't the newer innovations that made me come to my conclusion over the game being RE or not. It was the very nature of the game.

Let me remind you of some of the things I'm talking about. There is a lazer hallway in which you must jump around in to survive. There is a sequence in which you run away from a giant walking statue. Not only can you kick people in the face, but you can also choke-slam them, along with an array of other wrestling moves. The game occasionally has you fight giant troll like monsters by jumping on them and slashing a creature on it's back. One of the main antagonists is a century old midget. There are quick time events all over the game that have you doing all sorts of ridiculous actions, along with an entire knife fight in one of them. Leon spews one liners. There is a section in which you fight people on moving mine carts. You eventually happen on an island with armed, brainwashed mercenaries. I could just keep on going on and on and on, but i think you get the picture!

RE4 was an incredible action game, and I won't ignore that it did have some creepy bits, as you fight some truly scary umbrella mutations in closed in areas. I don't regret a single second of my playtime with that game and I'll probably be buying it again soon, but I wish that in some way, Capcom would keep to those bits with their newer innovations and make an entire game consisting of nothing but them. As would an actual survival horror game would be, just modernized!

LBTFan13 · **Reply #68 on:** January 31, 2012, 08:31:55 PM

I understand all of your points and I get that you don't hate RE 4. Here's how I look at everything you mentioned:

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There is a lazer hallway in which you must jump around in to survive.

This one I'll agree seemed out of place, though be it really cool. I think this part was inspired by the first movie.

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There is a sequence in which you run away from a giant walking statue.

This one I'll also agree with you on. Again though, I consider it a defense mechanism of the castle, albeit a weird one.

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Not only can you kick people in the face, but you can also choke-slam them, along with an array of other wrestling moves.

Again, possibly inspired by the first movie, but I didn't find a problem with these. When the gun and knife doesn't work, you use brute force. I can understand why Capcom added those in.

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The game occasionally has you fight giant troll like monsters by jumping on them and slashing a creature on it's back.

I actually really liked the troll fights. Sure you killed them all virtually the same way, but I liked that RE included those fights in. I think a troll could exist in the franchise, especially in that setting of Europe. Again, it could have evolved the same way the Nemesis originally did. Also, you don't necessarily have to use the knife. You can shoot the Plagas instead.

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One of the main antagonists is a century old midget.

One of Code Veronica's antagonists was a cross-dressing, highly flamboyant psychopath with dual personalities. I again wasn't really bothered by Salazar.

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There are quick time events all over the game that have you doing all sorts of ridiculous actions, along with an entire knife fight in one of them.

Again, not bothered by these at all. I found them pretty tense, especially the knife scene. One mess up and you die.

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Leon spews one liners.

And you didn't like those? I thought found them to be references to how incredibly cheesy the dialogue from the older games were. Also, I found them genuinely funny.

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There is a section in which you fight people on moving mine carts.

Again, I found this to be really tense. You were in a very tight vehicle moving towards obstacles while hordes of enemies attacked you from every direction. That's pretty suspenseful if you ask me.

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You eventually happen on an island with armed, brainwashed mercenaries.

You were walking around a village with armed, brainwashed villagers and a castle with armed, brainwashed religious cult members. It didn't matter whether they were armed with melee weapons or ranged, they were still armed.

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is just because it's survival horror does not mean there can't be tense moments throughout that don't involve simple jump scares. I found the atmosphere in RE 4 very creepy in all parts because even though there were a bunch of open areas, you still didn't know where enemies were coming from. In fact, the open areas allowed for enemies to attack you from all directions as opposed to simply in front, behind you or either of the sides. Plus, RE 4 did have some backtracking parts to it, reminiscent of the earlier games, and RE 5 did bring back the highly limited inventory system, also reminiscent of the previous game, and before anybody says having a partner with additional slots ruins it remember that RE 0 also had a partner with additional spots that you could switch items around with.

I'm not trying to bash your opinion at all. I understand why you believe the way you do and I hope you don't take any offense to my counterargument. I just hope I can help you understand why I feel that both RE 4 and 5 are still RE games even if they don't follow the same formula as the previous games.

Campion1 · **Reply #69 on:** January 31, 2012, 09:42:16 PM

Well yes, you would indeed feel tense and scenes would be suspenseful because that's a part of the hectic action that the game puts you through. If there was anything I found frightening about the combat in the game it was that most of it involved close quarters encounters with sharp instruments, only multiplied by ten. The backtracking in four you referenced wasn't quite the same as returning to the already horrific fun house mansion filled up with hunters and crimson zombies (Another newly added mechanic that was practically genius in the context for the backtracking) To add, when I noted all those things, I wasn't exactly criticizing them for what they were, but listing what I thought was totally off the wall of what RE would be.

Of course I don't take any offense to what you said.

I can certainly understand why you would see the newer games as still deserving of the title. To me it would seem that you enjoy the excitement that the series offers to you, period, in no matter what fashion it's delivered. There's nothing wrong with that at all! You love it for what it is, and you believe it's right to the source material. However from my view, I would think that in this way, you're confusing the fear and suspense that a game like RE1/2 would administer as compared to the fourth or firth title. You said it yourself that the newer games aren't like the old, and that's what I and others would take issue with since it bares the name "Resident Evil."

LBTFan13 · **Reply #70 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:05:54 PM

I don't think I'm getting the fear in the new games confused with that of the original games. I get that fans really feel immersed with the claustrophobic nature of the original games paired with the idea of not knowing behind every corner and door what was going to come after you. And I totally understand why people don't find RE 4 and 5 all that scary. I just like to think that RE 4 and 5 deliver the same fear just in a different manner. Yes there are more power weapons and ammunition, and the areas are more open, but the enemy is more advanced and more unpredictable in my opinion.

I guess this is something we can just agree to disagree. I completely get your feelings for the franchise and don't want to start World War III over it

Now if we are going to talk about Capcom as a company, I think we can agree that they do not handle the rest of their franchises with great care.

Littlefoot1616 · **Reply #71 on:** February 01, 2012, 04:03:13 PM

Some valid points from both ends and I agree with most of them. I think every RE player of the original game remembers the first time the zombie dogs burst through the window in that narrow corridor. Freaky as hell coz it was completely unexpected. Similarly, the first time I saw Dr. Salvador (cowl-capped chainsaw wielding madman in RE4) I was equally freaked out about the fact that he just kept coming and anything I threw at him just glanced off him. The fear factor of RE was in different formulas but they still were there. Granted, I'll admit you don't get that jump out of your skin moments in the latter REs than you did in the previous installments (for me it was Nemesis in RE3 coz you never knew where he'd crop up!) but the tension was always there in RE4 because an onslaught could come from anywhere. I know QTEs (quick time events) are not particularly shined upon these days but they worked well for RE4 in generating tension but, again, in a different form. I can truthfully say, after getting cleaved in half by the villager whilst being handcuffed to Luis Sera at the start of chp 1-2 (this is a FMV I thought you are just meant to watch), I didn't dare put my controller down for a second for another cutscene in fear of another QTE popping up without warning.

I think the majority of the tears of the RE series are moreso aimed at RE5 when the flags go flying about "not being scary" or "it's not survival horror anymore". I can understand where those arguments are coming from because I didn't find RE5 scary. Unsettling at times but not scary. The only enemy I tend to fear were the Reapers (bug-like BOWs) and that's only coz they could insta-kill you if you were stupid enough to let it get close. Also, the inclusion of co-op dilutes the scare factor because well, you're never as scared if you've got someone with you. There's no denying that the fifth installment was more action orientated with a greater variety of weaponry, open environments and more accessible resources (ammo, heals etc.) but you can't falter it for how it works...because it does just that. It works. Granted more traditional areas of RE were left on the cutting room floor but the gameplay was still solid, the mechanics worked appropriately and it was still an enjoyable experience. It's not perfect but still. Just because its tension building come across in a different way doesn't make it a bad game. Nor does it set a premise for what's oncoming. RE Revelations has been hailed as an excellent blend of the former and latter styles of RE gameplay. The ship has been compared to the mansion of RE1 all the time and credit's been given at how well the tension builds during these sections of play. I'm sure Capcom will have heard the cries of those who bleed for the days of original RE play to return and apparently they are being heard. As long as the balance is stable then I can't see any reason why RE6 can't be a success story like so many of the others before it.

LBTFan13 · **Reply #72 on:** February 07, 2012, 02:04:14 PM

To be honest, even though the inclusion of co-op made RE 5 less scary, I still enjoyed it a lot. My friend is a huge RE fan, and finally being able to play the game together was great. Also, on harder difficulties, it became imperative for us to stay close to each other, which raised the tension of the game for us.

Again, I can see why people would not like the inclusion of co-op in a survival horror franchise.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #73 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:06:50 PM

The old games never scared me, their terrible controls, terrible graphics, terrible fixed camera angles, and terrible gameplay just pissed me off. The only good RE games are the newer ones where I can steer my character with any kind of accuracy.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #74 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:07:27 PM

The old games never scared me, their terrible controls, terrible graphics, terrible fixed camera angles, and terrible gameplay just pissed me off. The only good RE games are the newer ones where I can steer my character with any kind of accuracy.

Belmont2500 · **Reply #75 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:11:14 PM

Quote from: LBTFan13,Jan 31 2012 on 09:05 PM

Now if we are going to talk about Capcom as a company, I think we can agree that they do not handle the rest of their franchises with great care.

*cough*Devil May Cry*cough*

Also, Wierd Raptor, I agree the old RE games weren't that scary, to me it was the 'so bad its good' vibe the game had(the cheesy voice acting) that made it worth playing.

I did hate the controls though. Yes, I realize that Silent Hill(my all time favorite horror series) had the same issue, but it made sense in SH because the characters were everyday people. It doesn't make sense for a trained soldier to have trouble aiming their weapon or get from one place to the next, the newer games fixed that but dropped the 'so bad its good' vibe.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #76 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:28:11 PM

'So Bad Its Good' aside, I just don't enjoy playing helpless characters, which is why Leon having grown into a badass in 4 was a welcome change for me. I do wish people would stop cursing out the newer RE titles, though. Actually, I thought there was plenty 'So Bad Its Good'-ness in the newer titles. Come on, man, Leon at one point ends up having to run for his life from a giant mecha version of the midget.

That wasn't directed at you, Belmont.

Belmont2500 · **Reply #77 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:14:24 PM

I see what your getting at, besides none of the RE games really scared me, sure, there were a few jump scares that surprised me, but nothing that would pass as High Octane Nightmare Fuel .

I do realize the newer games still had some 'so bad its good' moments but really, who's going to forget Barry's famous 'Jill sandwich' quote.

WeirdRaptor · **Reply #78 on:** February 23, 2012, 07:29:42 AM

Talk of 'Jill Sandwich' and no mention 'Master of Unlocking'?

LBTFan13 · **Reply #79 on:** March 23, 2012, 12:59:36 PM

So I recently got Resident Evil Operation Raccoon City this week and have been playing it a lot. Here are my thoughts:

So what doesn't work about it? The team AI is very inconsistent. On some cases, your partners provide great cover fire for you and stay with you so they can heal you when you get injured or infected. On others, they run into obviously placed trip mines or crossfires and get themselves killed instantly. Is it as bad as Sheva in RE 5? No, but it's very close to. The only reason why it's not as bad is because your teammates seem to have infinite ammo, so they can't run out.

The game features auto covering, meaning you merely run into walls and you will automatically cover behind them. This is both good and bad. It's good because in the heat of fire it is very helpful to just dive automatically without pressing a button. It's bad because a lot of times you try to pick up items and instead you duck behind cover. This can get awkward very quickly.

What's really jarring is the lack of split-screen multiplayer. I don't understand why gaming companies don't include it in games. If a game has offline multiplayer, it should have it offline as well. End of story. It's a real shame because co-op is so great, which I will go over later.

The aiming also takes a little getting used too, but that's only a minor gripe. Also, the graphics are not the best but they aren't by any means terrible.

Okay, so what's good about it? I'll get back to that when I have the time.

EDIT: Okay, now I'll go over what's good about the game.

This game is meant to be played co-op, and that's where this game shines. I love playing with three friends as we plan on how we tackle each obstacle. You really have to work together to complete missions and staying together is a must.

The online multiplayer itself is also very addicting. I have so much fun playing the different modes, and it's a great break from the blockbuster titles like COD, Battlefield and Halo.

There is also definitely a lot of replay value here. There are a bunch of weapons and skills you can unlock for all the characters by using XP earned from playing missions. You can replay all of the missions as many times as you want and still earn XP, which is a plus, and everything you unlock during campaign carries over to multiplayer. Also, each character has a different set of skills, so it gives you an incentive to play through the campaign multiple times to find the right skill and weapon set for you.

What I like most about this game is how difficult it is. This is not an easy game, even on the normal difficulty. In some areas, you are fighting Spec Ops soldiers, and they are normally smart and can be tricky to dispatch sometimes, forcing you to try new methods every time. Sometimes, you will be fighting zombies and other monsters, which can also get very difficult if you are surrounded or attacked from behind. Now combine those together, and you've got your work cut out for you. It really feels like it's you and your team against everybody else, and that's a refreshing thing to see.

I also love the whole concept of the game. This is obviously not meant to be in canon with the RE story that we know and love. This game is simply meant to be played for fun. Did it need to be made? Probably not, but I'm glad they made it anyway. It's awesome to finally play from Umbrella's perspective (even though you play as Wesker in Umbrella Chronicles).

So is it a perfect game? Absolutely not. But is it a bad game? Absolutely not. This game, despite it's flaws, is a blast. I think it is a great addition to the RE franchise and if you are a fan of the franchise you should definitely check it out.

Final score: 7/10