For the month of December we have a new character showcase, but with some very familiar characters.  Please warmly welcome the gang as the antagonists might see them! :bestsharptooth The character showcase topic for this month can be found here.

Also keep in mind that the next season of the fanfic prompt challenge is now open.  We are doing things a bit differently this season and allowing for people to either fulfill a monthly prompt or a suggested prompt during each month.  I look forward to seeing what you all come up with! :)  The fanfic prompt rules and list of monthly prompts can be found here.

Tops

Malte279

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Many of you listed him as a "most hated" character.
With all his mistakes I think that Cera's Dad is a most interesting character to examine. Looking at his attitude (and general threehorn attitude) in the original movie and his behavior in later sequels he may possibly be regarded (funny as it sounds) as a precursor of threehorn / non-threehorn relationships. I know this may sound stupid, but he came across as the worst racist in the original movie and he certainly had not abandoned his attitudes in LBT 2 and 3. There were later racist remarks in LBT 5 and 6 as well. Nevertheless he is learning. In LBT 7 he accepts (though he is very embarrassed by it) the opinion of the other dinosaurs as him being the one to delay everything. In LBT 8 we have him fool around with Littlefoot's grandpa. He won't ever ridden himself of all his prejudices, but he is learning and to some degree improving himself. This is something that cannot be said about many other characters. Most of them either don't change at all or else are so perfect already that there is no need for them to change.
What do we know about Tops' youth? It is very likely that he was raised in a racist manner. For somebody like that it would be extremely difficult to overcome prejudices. What tragedy befell him in the original movie? Where is his wife? Where are his other children? Whose children are Dinah and Dana (who by their looks don't seem to be the same species as Cera)? I think that there is a lot more to Tops than the "tough racist" as which perhaps he wants to be seen.


kjeldo

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so... you want to know some things about cera's father huh? i can tell you 1 thing, he was as child a heavy racist.


Coyote_A

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Cera's dad is one of the most bright examples of conservative character. One of the primary ideas of originaly LBT was, that different types of living beings can live together in harmony and friendship. There, Tops really looks like spokesman of old times, opposite to Littlefoot and his mother... Honestly, i never pretend him to be a good character. He looks like a bad person even in his relations with Cera(At least, until part 11, where he meets Tria again), shouting things like: "I'm your father, that means you must do everything my way!"


Kor

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As I recall Littlefoot's mother was more along the lines of Cera's dad, though far nicer about it, agreeing with him about Litttlefoot should not be playing with Cera since threehorns and longnecks do not play together and things have always been that way.  Which I find odd considering her parents, at least I assume Littlefoot's grandparents are her parents, don't seem to have any of that.   I dislike the character and likely always will, though I do see his necessary existence as both a plot element in certain stories and episodes, and some dinosaurs would feel the way he does.    Cera likely gets a lot of her attitudes from him and will likely grow up to be a lot like him.  Though her little sister may be less like him due to other influences at her young age then when Cera was her age.


DarkHououmon

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Quote from: Coyote_A,Feb 10 2008 on  01:25 PM
He looks like a bad person even in his relations with Cera(At least, until part 11, where he meets Tria again), shouting things like: "I'm your father, that means you must do everything my way!"
I believe he only said that because he cared about Cera. At this time he is an only parent, and Cera is his only family he seems to have left, so it's logical he was just being overprotective.


Coyote_A

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Quote from: DarkHououmon,Feb 10 2008 on  01:38 PM
I believe he only said that because he cared about Cera.
Well, it's not only important to worry about your child, to be a good parent. With behavior like that he can easily hurt Cera's feelings, that obvious... But not to Tops, i'm afraid.


DarkHououmon

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Quote from: Coyote_A,Feb 10 2008 on  02:46 PM
Quote from: DarkHououmon,Feb 10 2008 on  01:38 PM
I believe he only said that because he cared about Cera.
Well, it's not only important to worry about your child, to be a good parent. With behavior like that he can easily hurt Cera's feelings, that obvious... But not to Tops, i'm afraid.
Yes I know. But still, Tops does love Cera and only wants her to be safe. If he ends up hurting Cera, it would be unintentional. Topsy is not a heartless character, far as I'm concerned.


landbeforetimelover

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Mr. Threehorn is a freaking SOB, but he does care and he's not heartless.  He just acts that way to everyone for some unknown reason.


Coyote_A

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Quote from: DarkHououmon,Feb 10 2008 on  02:19 PM
Yes I know. But still, Tops does love Cera and only wants her to be safe. If he ends up hurting Cera, it would be unintentional. Topsy is not a heartless character, far as I'm concerned.
Well, it's his way to do things. He's been treating Tria same way, when suspect that tinysaures have stolen his present from her.


DarkHououmon

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I just don't view Tops as a bad person.


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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I love Topsy as a character. Without him, half the movies wouldn't have the urgency they do. Becasue of his stubbornness, and his hotheadedness, he can serve as a catalyst to get things moving, or the dissenter that grinds everything to a halt (focing the five kids to go out and get things done themselves).


Kor

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That is likely one of his prime, if not THE prime function he has in the movies is plot device.


Cancerian Tiger

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In all honesty, I have mixed feelings about Mr. Threehorn.  One day I see him as a father trying to do his best, the next I wanna kick him into the next galaxy :huh:.  I agree with DH on the fact that Cera was once his only daughter around and he is just protective of her.  However, his attitude towards her is too much for one to take.  He seems to not consider what her feelings are, is overbearing, and is too demanding of her.  It sucks to be a perfectionist, and I believe poor Cera is already headed in that direction :unsure:.  He also sends Cera mixed messages.  In the TV ep "The Great Logrunning Game," he tells an enlightened Cera one minute threehorns can do anything they set their minds to, but then turns around and tells her what her limitations are.  What a jerk :angry:!  I don't understand how Tria can have such feelings for him, but I guess that comes with her loving, compassionate nature.  With a kindhearted mentor like Tria around, along with little Tricia, perhaps there is hope Cera will not be entirely influenced by her father :yes.  As far as the twins are concerned, my theory is that Mr. Threehorn has an older daughter somewhere but she most likely has estranged herself from him.  I think he is so hard as a means to shield his vulnerability, and this could be where Cera picked up on that flaw.  In a nutshell, Mr. Threehorn is, like LBTL mentioned, an SOB.  Cera will end up paying for his shortcomings emotionally and possibly mentally, his marriage to Tria may go to the trenches, and Tricia may inherit her mother's personality and wind up becoming a jerk magnet.  Heaven forbid this ever happens, and Lord help them if it does :cry.


F-14 Ace

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Quote from: Kor,Feb 10 2008 on  01:32 PM
As I recall Littlefoot's mother was more along the lines of Cera's dad, though far nicer about it, agreeing with him about Litttlefoot should not be playing with Cera since threehorns and longnecks do not play together and things have always been that way.  Which I find odd considering her parents, at least I assume Littlefoot's grandparents are her parents, don't seem to have any of that.   I dislike the character and likely always will, though I do see his necessary existence as both a plot element in certain stories and episodes, and some dinosaurs would feel the way he does.    Cera likely gets a lot of her attitudes from him and will likely grow up to be a lot like him.  Though her little sister may be less like him due to other influences at her young age then when Cera was her age.
I'm guessing the reason Littlefoot's grandparents aren't racist is because on the way to the valley, they overcame it the same as Littlefoot did by working together with other species.


Malte279

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I agree with this estimation of you F-14. I think that, with all the suffering it caused, the big earthquake in the first movie also is in part responsible for the uniting of the different kinds. According to LBT 7 the older dinosaurs did migrate to the Great Valley together, same as Littlefoot, Cera, Ducky, Petrie, and Spike did (something that was not suggested in the original movie). If they decided to stick together in spite of their earlier racism, the earthquake is likely to be the reason. Herds and families had been torn apart and in such a hostile country it may have been saver to wander in such large groups as to scare away sharpteeth from attacking them (on the other hand it remains a mystery how they found enough food to sustain such a large herd).
As for the racism of Littlefoot's mother, there is one important difference between her racism and that of Tops. While she accepts the racism because "it has always been that way" (so just like Ali she probably never knew anyone but other longnecks), Tops seems to adhere to that racism for conviction of the own superiority. He is less ready to learn than Littlefoot's grandparents are (and than his mother would have probably been).
When Littlefoot asks his mother for the reasons why the different kinds should stay apart from each other she evades the question she puts him of with the prospects of many longnecks to play with in the Great Valley.
If Cera had asked her Dad the same question she would have most likely been given a lecture about how much better threehorns are than any other kind.

As for Tops as a father he seems to be very much overstrained with the task. We know nothing about Cera's mother, but it is possible, even likely, that Cera's bringing up would have been very different if she had been around too. I am not suggesting that her mother would have been less racist than Tops, but I suppose there wouldn't have been so many scenes in which Tops was just perfectly helpless about what was the right thing to do.
We don't know about the past of Tops and Tria (they apparently had been very close friends before Tops met Cera's Mum) but maybe her kind and compassionate nature was one important point in her becoming the mate of Tops. Some people really fall in love with others as they feel they can help them. Maybe Tria felt a great appeal in the idea of helping to "heal" the torn up family of Tops.


Cancerian Tiger

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I agree with Malte's statement on a possible reason why Tria would end up in the Threehorn family :yes.  However, I can't agree on Mr. Threehorn only being an SOB just because he's "overstrained."  Any parent who is selfless and has half a heart would raise their child in a safe, warm and loving environment, not an overcritical and perfectionistic one :angry:.  Especially when he took her into the wildfire for the sake of HIS pride.  That's inexcusable -_-.  One can certainly hope Cera grows to be the same as she is now.  I for one could not imagine her becoming insecure, passive or even a "people-pleaser."  I find Mr. Threehorn's attitude toward Cera inexcusable.  There's no justifying why he has to be such a *censored* to his own daughter, who like every little girl idolizes her father.


Malte279

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Quote
Any parent who is selfless and has half a heart would raise their child in a safe, warm and loving environment, not an overcritical and perfectionistic one angry.gif. Especially when he took her into the wildfire for the sake of HIS pride. That's inexcusable sleep.gif
As for the safety, I think this is exactly what Mr. Threehorn is trying to do and this often leads to actions which we are criticizing as they seem to be unreasonable to us. As for warm and loving I think it would be nothing short of unfair to claim that he doesn't show any warmth and love to Cera. He is nothing like some of the reserved, cold hearted father figures of other stories. Mr. Threehorn shows his affection for Cera quite frequently. The two often nudge and if there are any doubts about Mr. Threehorn's love for his daughter there are a couple of scenes that could be named in which he is not shy to show that love even in front of other dinosaurs. Is he overcritical and perfectionist? To some degree he may be.
An example is his reaction to the children shaking leave from the trees in LBT 6. But he gave the reason for his criticism right away and he was not exactly shouting either. We never like him saying such things or being the mean strict guy when it comes to guarding the water etc. But aren't his actions often the result of his attempts to provide the safety we want him to provide for his daughter? Just today I watched the TV episode "Forbidden Friendship" and once again it was the story of a herd coming to the Great Valley in a time of sparse food. Littlefoot's grandpa was (of course) all in favor of sharing the food while Cera's dad (that "SOB" as you termed him) was not so ready to do that. But honestly, if it wasn't for the kids always finding the secret food supply when food is running out, wouldn't there be at least some point in the stand of Cera's father? Maybe he is just more of a supporter of "realpolitik" while Littlefoot's grandparents are more idealistic and always proven right by miraculous discoveries of food just in the nick of time. If it wasn't for the kids finding that food whenever it is needed, we might understand Tops' stand better. Wouldn't in the worst case scenario the Great Valley dinosaurs end up with a bunch of friends but starved to death if they were always ready to share when there is little left for them anyway? Egoistic as this point of view is, it is not bare of any rationality either.
As for the fire in LBT 3, I suppose we can be quite certain that he did not mean to go into the fire on purpose. He was no longer able to listen to any sensible arguments (this I think was his inexcusable mistake), but I don't think it was pride only. If he had been fully aware that his action meant risking the life of his daughter (and his own) he would have probably taken a different way, but I don't think he was listening any more at all. This was foolish, dangerous, unsensible, and over-selfconfident. But I would stop short at saying that it was a deliberate risking of his and his daughter's life committed in full awareness of what he was doing.
Most of the "nasty" traits of Tops turn up in times of danger. In times when he feels that he needs to do something to ensure the safety of his daughter and others. Perhaps Littlefoot's grandpa put it best in LBT 3:
"Oh, he is just confused Littlefoot. Sometimes fear makes grownups do strange things."


DarkHououmon

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I agree with Malte. He's not exactly my favorite character, and he has done things I get upset about. But when I look at things from a broader perspective (if that makes any sense) Topsy's actions usually seem reasonable. I've personally never seen Topsy do anything to deliberately bring harm to his own daughter or others. Have any of you? The only time I can see where it seemed to be the case is LBT 3 when he went the other way despite Grandpa Longneck's advise. But he didn't do this to deliberatley hurt himself or his daughter. He was only doing it to protect her. I have never seen Topsy mistreat his daughter in anyway. I've seen him be overprotective of her, and make irrational decisions, but he only does this because he cares about her. And if Topsy did mistreat Cera, then why does Cera still love him?


Cancerian Tiger

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Malte, this is another example of how ya point out things that others don't notice.  Perhaps there are more positive traits to Mr. Threehorn than I can think of.  However, we all come from different walks of life, and I have my reasons for disliking him.  I never got along with my father, and I could be here all night explaining why, but that's not the issue here.  I let my personal feelings get in the way of my judgement toward Mr. Threehorn :slap  :bang.  I have noticed since becoming reunited with Tria and the arrival of Tricia, Mr. Threehorn has softened up a bit.  There's a start, and I hope I'll learn to like him more.


Kor

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I could write a long post about Threehorn, but I'll refrain.  I dislike the character for the most part, but I have noticed, as likely many have, that he's been getting a bit less like he was in the first movie over the many sequels and tv series.  Though he'll never get to being a nice character.  

Part of it may be the change in writers, maybe some of them got to dislike writing Threehorn like he originally was so decided to soften him up a bit and make him less like he was.  Though if I had to pick between hanging out with him or Archie Bunker, I'd likely have to pick Archie Bunker (though likely no one's old enough to know who he is) he seems slightly nicer then Threehorn is, and I doubt Archie would punch you for not agreeing with him or just because,  I would not doubt Threehorn would do the equivalent just because.

Cera will be similar to him when he is an adult due to his heavy influence on her in the time before she traveled with Littlefoot, but I do wonder how Tricia will be since his influence is heavily diluted by her mother, and the others of the Great Valley.