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Land Before Time: Twilight Valley

Serris · 237 · 32213

Cancerian Tiger

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I liked the opening of this chapter.  It felt like there really was a fight going on until it was revealed to be a game.  

As for Ms. Swimmer not knowing about Saurolo's death, well, she just got her daughter back, the only surviving witness to his murder, aside from Ms. Maia (I think).  I'm actually surprised Ducky had not told her mother just yet.  A change could be to add in a later scene, when Ducky and her mother have a few moments alone and Ms. Swimmer could ask her about what happened.  I'm sure she'd be horrified to learn Ducky actually witnessed everything :o.  

I also agree with Caustizer's comments about the "in favor" part :yes.


Pangaea

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Sorry for taking a while. :oops Here’s what I have to say about the chapter:

Caustizer and CT’s comments on Saurolo made me think of something else: in past chapters, when Ms. Swimmer has referenced Ducky being captured, absent, in need of rescue, etc., has she made any mention of Saurolo? I would expect her to express equal concern for both of them, and so she should speak of “Ducky and Saurolo” in most of those instances (except from cases in which Ducky is relevant to the subject at hand, but Saurolo is not). For that matter, Saurolo has hardly been mentioned at all by anyone besides Ducky (as far as I can recall); in revamping the earlier chapters, this is something you might want to address.

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His other companion, a brown Runner* was struck with a javelin and fell to the ground.
*Insert comma.

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The clearing itself was unremarkable* with verdant grass gently waving in the breeze and a pile of what appeared to be a pile of brown nuts[/COLOR].
The highlighted portion should be deleted. Also, another comma might be in order here.*

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He got up and noticed* to his horror* * the enemy dinosaurs had followed them to the clearing.
*Commas.
*Insert “that”.

(*Comment written in spoilervision*)
Somehow, I found the scene at the beginning even more disturbing when it turned out to be a game played by dinosaur children than if it had been real.

By the way, you’re very good at coming up with names for LBT characters based on the scientific names of their species (or closely related species). I rather liked the ones you had for the characters at the beginning of the chapter. I’m pretty sure you got “Tabura” from Muttaburrasaurus and “Krito” from Kritosaurus, and I’m guessing Nomingia for “Mona”, but I’m stumped by “Shan”. :confused

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"Raptix, you have to tell her," Littlefoot said, looking at the stalks
The end of this sentence is missing a period.

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Ms. Swimmer, who had finished eating her meal* turned around and noticed Raptix standing behind her.
*Comma.

Wouldn’t the gang have learned from Ducky by now that Saurolo was definitively dead? (Also, I second what CT said on the subject of Saurolo.)

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At the same time Hyp's sliding kick took place, Grey-Wing* along with Quetzal, Pterano, and Long-Wing, landed on the sidelines.
*There should be a comma here. Also, it may be redundant to include the words “along with”.

I liked how you handled Mo’s scouting mission; it was both interesting and refreshing to have some of the narrative done from the perspective of a basically neutral character who is uncertain or reluctant about getting involved in the war. And while I STRONGLY dislike racism and discrimination, I thought it was clever that you had Thal be prejudiced against landwalkers, seeing them as crude savages.

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"I along with two of my herd members will listen in. You go explore other rivers," Mo said in Water-Speak.
Do you think it would make more sense for Mo to say “pod members”, “water brothers/sisters”, or even simply “water kin”, instead of “herd members”?

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The polished black spearhead the Fast-Runners wore as necklaces gleamed in the afternoon sun.
Should be “spearheads”.

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The dinosaurs then dispersed, paying no heed to the dolphin-like creature cavorting in the lake.
I can’t remember if you’ve previously used modern-day terms to describe things in the LBT world, but if you’re trying not to use anachronistic descriptors, I would suggest replacing “dolphin” with “fish”.

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"Let me get this straight; you all are leaving the Great Valley?" the light green Crested Swimmer asked.
Since you already mentioned the Crested Swimmer’s color in the previous sentence, you might as well delete this.

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Blackjack shook his head. He felt the anger rising within him. "Look, can't we find a peaceful solution to this? Like* maybe* I dunno, negotiate with the Great Valley dinosaurs?" he asked, making sure to keep his voice neutral.
*Insert commas and/or ellipses (…) here.

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"Come on, Petrie* this isn't too bad. The smell of the Big Water and the brightfall are just beautiful," he said.
*Comma.

From Mo’s report to Grandpa Longneck:
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"Mo learn of group of leaf eaters called Shade Sky Hunters. Mo think they trained to kill flyers. And Mo learn some leaf eaters mad at Styracus and leaving valley*"
*Period.

While Mo isn’t known for having an especially extensive Leafeater vocabulary, it kind of bugged me that he used exactly the same words in both of his reports (the one he made to the flyers, and the one to the Great Valley Elders).

Finally, a bit of late feedback for Chapters 26 and 27: At the end, when the gang first learns from Rime that Ducky is still alive, Littlefoot states that they should go to sleep and talk about it more in the morning. I would expect that the gang would want to hear more right then and there, with sleep being the last thing on their minds. Furthermore, I would expect them to tell the council (especially Ms. Swimmer) of this information as soon as they had the chance, rather than taking the time to play a game first. Also, Rime only mentions Ducky when he shares this information (and he never heard anything about Chomper in Chapter 14), but at the beginning of Chapter 28, Mr. Threehorn approves the expedition to rescue Ducky AND Chomper. If you change the chapters so that Rime overhears information about Chomper as well as Ducky in #14, there should be a scene in which he shares this information as well (in which you could also have Ms. Swimmer express concern for Saurolo by asking if he knows anything about him as well); otherwise the GV dinosaurs should be unaware of the fact that Chomper is on Cloud Island along with Ducky (though it is plausible that they would suspect he was there). Finally, when the elders are voting on the name for the Warriors’ Council, they do so with declarations of “in favor”, which Caustizer considered unrealistic.



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Serris

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Note: there will be some major league revamping of the story. Check here periodically for updates.

Chapter 1: Status - uploaded
Chapter 2: Status - uploaded
Chapter 3: Status - uploaded
Chapter 4: Status - uploaded
Chapter 5: Status - uploaded
Chapter 6: Status - in progress
Chapter 7: Status - not started
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Chapter 34: Status - not started
Chapter 35: Status - not started

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On a side note, I did run into a serious snag: how to I justify the TWV dinosaurs using stone age weapons and herbs? I simply cannot edit that out as that is one of the "signatures" of TWV. And having the weapons simply "appear" is unsatisfying for me.

Any suggestions?

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Caustizer

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It's nice to know your making progress.  If I may suggest it, a way they could be using stone age weapons is that they learn about them from Claw Valley's attacks.  Herbs could be simply linked to one with a high knowledge of plants, such as Mr. Bigmouth, using them for practical purposes.

In some cases it would not make sense to use weapons (like longnecks or threehorns) but in the times where it does I don't see any errors with having them around. After all, it's only a small step from their current unmaterialistic way of thinking into using what the environment provides.

Also, what do you think of the latest part of Far Away Home?  I've been trying to isolate the patterns within chapters and change things up a bit.  :angel


Pangaea

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Sorry it took me a while to share this, but I had a few ideas regarding the issue of introducing the use of weapons and herbs in Twilight Valley:

Perhaps some leafeater (one poorly equipped for physical combat, such as a runner or swimmer) could accidentally discover the usefulness of weapons in a desperate situation. Cornered by a more dangerous dinosaur such as a sickleclaw, the leafeater might try to defend itself by throwing rocks (similar to what the gang has done on many occasions). By chance (or perhaps on purpose), the leafeater throws a stone which happens to be particularly sharp, and ends up wounding or killing the sickleclaw. Alternatively, the leafeater could use the stone to slash or stab his or her attacker, inadvertently inventing the knife. The leafeater tells the other characters how he or she escaped, and the idea of using sharpened stones for defense is born. As they practice learning how to use such weapons, the dinosaurs find that it is difficult to accurately strike a target with a thrown blade over a long distance, and risky to get close enough to an enemy (especially one naturally equipped with an arsenal of biological blades) to stab or slash it to death. However (perhaps from another individual’s anecdote of improvised weaponry), they find that a long, straight stick can be thrown accurately from much farther away, and also removes the necessity for an individual to come within striking range of a sharptooth in order to stab it. Someone gets the idea of tying a stone blade onto the end of a stick, and the spear is invented.

Another possible origin for the use of the knife in combat could tie in with the preparation of herbs. Mr. Bigmouth, for instance, could require a means of cutting up some plants for one reason or another, and uses a sharp rock (either naturally sharp or artificially sharpened) to do so. If he or some other character is surprised by an attacker, and one such tool happens to be at hand, that character could use it as a weapon in a desperate attempt to defend his or her self. This leads to the use of stone knives in battle.

As for the introduction of herbs, I can’t think of much to suggest, but I’ve always assumed Mr. Bigmouth was an expert on plants and their properties. And from what I recall, the Claw Valley dinosaurs have their own herbalists, and sometimes even “steal” knowledge of plant uses from the Great Valley dinosaurs. The LBT dinosaurs have been seen to use leaves as bandages and even painkillers (“The Great Log-Running Game”), so it’s not too great a step to introduce some of the more specialized plant uses. If you could post a list of TWV plants and their properties, I might be able to come up with more helpful and specific suggestions.



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Cancerian Tiger

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I do like the revamped chapters better so far :yes.  The part about Cera being profane cracked me up :lol.  If they were human, I'd imagine Mr. Threehorn would be a sailor at some point, since sailors tend to teach their kids all the words in the book :lol.  I know this from personal experience, anyway.


Serris

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I would also like to mention that an authorized spin-off of Twilight Valley exists. It is written by Scrattelover.

Here it is: Twilight Valley: Blood Ruby

------------------------------

On a side note, chapter 5 of TWV has been revamped and is uploaded in honor of Pangaea's birthday!  :celebrate

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Quote from: Serris,Jul 14 2010 on  09:50 PM
I would also like to mention that an authorized spin-off of Twilight Valley exists. It is written by Scrattelover.

Here it is: Twilight Valley: Blood Ruby
It currently has four chapters, and I won't be getting around to fifth until I get this requested story fully uploaded on to fanfiction.net. A friend asked me to post it when he saw I have an account there.

I'm forgot to mention that I'm crediting Serris as the owner of the title and the title of chapter one.

EDIT: On hold due to writer's block


Serris

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After a VERY long time, here is chapter 36!  :cheers  :cheers  :cheers  :celebrate  :celebrate  :celebrate

-----------------------

I had originally planned to do the Great Valley battle and Blackjack meeting the heroes but I realized that would make the chapter too long.

Chapter 36

-----------------------

Author's Notes

The chapter title is named after the track Primo Victoria by Sabaton. The lyrics in the track are about D-Day. While the temporal dissonance is rather strong, the lyrics are remarkably appropriate.

The crude maces used by Blackjack's group are the same design as the mace that Deimos uses in the Smash Brothers: Collision.

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Cancerian Tiger

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I sense a battle is about to happen, and an epic one at that :D.

Nice chapter, and I especially liked how the emotions of the characters regarding warfare were further explored in this chapter :yes.


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It's nice to see that after so much time you are writing chapters to Twilight Valley again.  It's been so long that I had forgotten what had happened in the past chapter or two, so I had to look back at previous ones to remind myself.

You start out with Blackjack, a club tail who intends to break away from Styracus' herd.  I found it kind of odd that he would use the term 'surrendering' as it seems very humble and defeated for one so angry and defiant.  To me, it would make a lot more sense for him to want to 'defect' to the Great Valley dinosaurs, as in join their side against Styracus.

Why does it seem like when you mention an unimportant character by name, that they often suffer something very painful that's either death or injury in the next few paragraphs :lol

Bigmouth is as creative as ever, and shows a surprisingly high amount of distain for Pterano. Since the former exile is the head of the GV Airforce, maybe Bigmouth should be a little bit nicer to him next time. :angel  Also it wouldn't be a good trademark Bigmouth scene without the expected accident with the equipment. :)

Deimos is one of the better characters in the story in my opinion, not only because he is vulgar and likeable but also because he casts sharpteeth in a better light then the brutal Claw Dinosaurs.  The idea of a 'taboo' within sharpteeth society about a particular type of weapon is very similar to Claw in Future Wars - did you like that idea there and apply it here?

Lastly, I am impressed by your inclusion of setting description in this latest chapter.  Normally you don't do it or gloss it over instead of using imagery, so it stuck me as unusual for this story but also a good direction to go with your writing.

Caustizer


Serris

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Quote from: Caustizer,Oct 6 2010 on  03:25 PM
Bigmouth is as creative as ever, and shows a surprisingly high amount of distain for Pterano. Since the former exile is the head of the GV Airforce, maybe Bigmouth should be a little bit nicer to him next time. :angel  Also it wouldn't be a good trademark Bigmouth scene without the expected accident with the equipment.
Mr. Bigmouth is just in a bad mood because he had no sleep for the past day or so.

What accident are you referring to?

I kind of want to make Mr. Bigmouth the "clumsy scientist" type. Brilliant and creative but somewhat physically inept.

Quote
The idea of a 'taboo' within sharpteeth society about a particular type of weapon is very similar to Claw in Future Wars - did you like that idea there and apply it here?

The weapons taboo was partially inspired by Future Wars but I figured that sharpteeth would prefer weapons that spill blood (hence their preference for edged weapons) as it fits their predatory nature. If you noticed, the majority of sharpteeth use weapons like spears, knives, claws, teeth, javelins, clubs studded with broken shells and rocks. They rarely use plain wood clubs or other blunt weapons.

----------------------

Quote
I found it kind of odd that he would use the term 'surrendering' as it seems very humble and defeated for one so angry and defiant. To me, it would make a lot more sense for him to want to 'defect' to the Great Valley dinosaurs, as in join their side against Styracus.

I was not sure if the dinosaurs had a word for "defect". In any case, surrender serves as a nearly perfect synonym for them.

----------------------

In any case, CT, Caustizer, thanks for the reviews and comments.

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Caustizer

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I was talking about him burning the glade, but i misread i as an accident when it was actually done on purpose.  My bad.


Pangaea

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I’m so sorry! I forgot all about the new chapter and my duty to proofread it! (Curse my colander memory! :bang)

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"Blackjack, you really don't mean to surrender, do you?" the pink Threehorn asked as she approached him.
Since there was no prior mention of this threehorn, this should be “a”.

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Blackjack, already angry from the fellow deserters who * questioned him, exploded. "If I didn't want to surrender, you think I would be out here*!" he screamed.
*Insert “had”.
*Insert question mark.

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Granted, Blackjack had never actually hurt anyone but he has destroyed several objects with his deadly tail.
Should be “has”.

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Another deserter, a pink Fast-Runner, pulled up one of * desert plants and ate the leaves.
*Insert “the”.

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Neither of them knew how to craft weapons such as spears, slings or knives – due to Yellowbelly society being rather isolated, thus contact with dinosaurs who used weapons was rare.
It is redundant to use both “due to” and “thus”; I would suggest removing “thus”.

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In addition, many Yellowbellies made it a game to see who van throw an object the furthest and with the greatest accuracy.
Should be “could”.

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"Now that you mention it-" Raptix failed to stifle a huge yawn "- I am getting tired."
This is a minor one, but there is some inconsistent punctuation usage here: hyphens are used instead of dashes, and one has a space separating it from the adjacent word while the other does not.

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Ms. Swimmer sighed; on one hand, she wanted to avenge the deaths of Saurolo and the torture of Ducky – even if it meant beating a sharptooth to death with her bare hands.
Should be “death”.

Quote
The times where conversation was about things like what was good to eat, stories from out childhood and talking about our children, not things like the best shape for spearheads, how to break another dinosaur's neck barehanded or how to cut a sickleclaw's throat," Ms. Swimmer said over Deimos's profane outburst.
”Where” should be “when” and “out” should be “our”. Also, it’s tautological to say “conversation was about…talking about”; at least “talking” should be removed.

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somnis tree sap, nowhere * as lethal as penthium but it required less cooking time.
”It required” should be “requiring”.
*Insert “near”.

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He yawned as he did so; he had literally not slept for nearly * the previous night and was quite tired.
*I think “all of” is missing here.

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The smell would have made anyone * sick but Mr. Bigmouth had been exposed to the odors of various medicinal herbs for so long that he was immune to their nauseating effects.
*Insert “else”

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"Mr. Bigmouth-oh dear, the odor in here is quite revolting," Pterano said
Another hyphen that should be a dash framed by spaces (if you wish to keep your punctuation consistent).

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Even though his weapon was much smaller than * one wielded by Strut and the others, the darts were no less deadly.
”Ones” should be “one.”
*Insert “the”.

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He was walking between Spike and * Clubtail with a Fast-Runner rider.
*Unless the clubtail in question is Mr. Clubtail, an “a” should be inserted here.

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The heat was starting to make him weak, further compounding the issue was the fact that he had not eaten in almost two days.
Personally, I think this should be two separate sentences.

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Some of the other dinosaurs had managed to get hold of some rocks and were making some weapons.
Should be “ahold”.

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Almost immediately, Blackjack galloped up to them.
Not an error; just a comment/opinion: “gallop” is not a word that springs to mind when thinking of clubtail locomotion (at least not in this instance in which there is no threat or emergency or other reason for Blackjack to move quickly).

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He * never liked Clubtails but this one's unusually bold approach particularly irked him.
*Insert “had”

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He dual sticks were out but in a nonthreatening position.
Should be “her”.

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He hated Clubtails but he remembered how Mr. Thicknose * said that wartime was not a time to be prejudiced against potential allies.
*Insert “had”

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As soon as Ms. Swimmer left, Blackjack then turned to his dinosaurs.
Remove “then”.

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"Sorry about that, my name's Blackjack and I'm the leader of his small group of dinosaurs," Blackjack replied.
Should be “this”. Also, just an opinion, but I find it strange that he says “this small group of dinosaurs”. It seems overly descriptive. Why not just “this group”?

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"We have deserted from the Great Valley's occupying dinosaurs and we have come to surrender," Blackjack replied calmly.
Remove “from”.

And now some comments:

Even before he elaborated on it, I thought Raptix’s expressed disdain for poison darts was interesting. It does make sense to me that creatures naturally equipped with weapons for killing would consider using artificial weapons to be in some way “unnatural”.

I also liked the emotional moments with Ducky and her views on the war. It seems to me that if any character were to have those feelings, it would be her. (Same goes for Ms. Swimmer.)

And wow. I really can’t imagine Foobie swearing. :lol (Actually, I have a hard time imagining any yellow belly using profanity.) It’s good that you gave the yellow bellies one area of strength (throwing things and hitting targets accurately); it makes them seem less pathetic and easier to take seriously.

Finally, I liked the short exchange between Cera and Strut. To be perfectly honest, throughout most of the story Strut’s character hasn’t felt much like his LBT II self, in my opinion. This scene was a very positive exception.



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Serris

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Oh sorry! VERY belated thanks for the comments, Caustizer, CT, Pangaea.

Ugh, it looks like my schedule is starting to slip...then again, I have 2 finals in a week and a final paper due in the next week or two.

Also, I am starting to lose some drive on writing this.

Worry not; I will try to get something out after everything is done.


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Cancerian Tiger

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Hey, don't worry about it.  I'm sure many of us here remember (or still deal with) how tough the last couple of weeks in a semester can be.  Try leaving TWV on the back burner until all your school-related work is done, and maybe your motivation will return :idea.


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Okay, I want everyone to know that I am about a quarter to a third done with the latest chapter. I am suffering from a huge writer's block as well as a lot of work.

So please, do not give up hope.

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Serris

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Okay, I am somewhat back on track but I have not decided what condition to have the battle in.

I am stuck between: clear night, day thunderstorm, night thunderstorm, foggy day, foggy night, snowy day, snowy night.

So any suggestions?

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I would say that a night thunderstorm or a foggy night would make the fight seem more like a fight like earlier ones in the story, and probably more interesting too. I'm kind of tied between those two, sorry I can suggest much else.

But if you go with a night thunderstorm, you could have the thunder exlode every time somebody is killed or injured in the fight, and if you go with the foggy night, you could use the same scenario, only have the fog get thicker or something like that to add a more eerie feeling or drama to the next chapter.

Or you could do a snowy night, what season is it currently in Twilight Valley? Spring, Summer, Fall or Winter? Fog or a thunderstorm at night could apply to all four, but you mentioned a snowy day or night as an option, so I was just curious. Sorry I can't offer more, that's all I could come up with.

I've been working on a fic of my own (not lbt) for quite some time, and I just finished it yesterday, and I'm low on ideas for anything as of now.

Hope these help or give you some ideas. :) Its the best I could think of for now.


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