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Proper English & Grammar

landbeforetimelover

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I've recently been subjected to grammar classes and it got me thinking....what is the REAL meaning of proper grammar?  Shouldn't it be how normal people speak and communicate?  I mean, are we saying that what this 200 year old book knows how to communicate better than we do?  If we had stuck to that we'd still be communicating through grunts and growls like our caveman ancestors did.  Language is meant to evolve and what really matters is how we communicate and how we understand each other.  

I'm sure many people on this forum can contest to this.  You learn English by "the book" and then learn later that American's don't speak like their little perfect book that you were made to study so carefully.  The thing is, most people don't CARE how some book says they should speak.  All they care about is being able to be understood by everyone.  Let me give you an example.

The word "because" can be shortened to 'cause, but who wants to write or type that?  It would be easier to write the "be" than the '.  Because of this, everyday people shorten it to 'cuz or just "cuz".  We even speak like that.  We actually say "cuz" when we talk.  So why shouldn't it be proper grammar?  Our little book should reflect how the people talk.  It makes much more sense to adjust the book than the ENTIRE American population, don't you think?  But no.  They can't do that.  Instead they have to subject you to YEARS of learning "proper" grammar and when you graduate, you just speak like a normal person and ignore all those "proper" rules anyway!  Talk about a waste of time and resources.


Cancerian Tiger

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There is actually NO real form of proper English, and there is no wrong dialect.  Sadly, there is this form of discrimination, called dialect discrimination, that is legal in America.  In the entertainment industry, folks with Southern dialects tend to take the brunt of it <_<.  It even annoys me that students have to write papers in what is called "Mainstream English".  Research and formal papers I can understand, but papers regarding life experiences or personal opinions?  Part of what catches a reader's attention to story is the writer's tone, and this includes dialect.  If this is left out, the paper has the feel of a robot writing it :neutral.


landbeforetimelover

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I've never written a school report and put any REAL emotion or feeling into it.  If it sounded like I gave a crap, I really didn't.  You can't just write.  Everything has to be 100% perfect and the subjects always SUCK!

The way the school system is now, if you could interface with computers and upload information into your mind, school wouldn't be necessary.  I think that is SO WRONG!  Since there's no meaning, emotion, or feeling in anything you learn or do at school, it can be treated as irrelevant bytes of data.  Things that really matter can't be taught through a book or by uploading bytes of information into your brain.


Malte279

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There are different schools of linguistics. The prescriptionists (as the name suggests) try to prescribe one way of language as the only "correct" way trying to stop the changing of the language. Personally I think that the goal of "freezing" a language in one state is not something to be desired and the likelihood of success is about the same as the attempt of trying to dam up the Mississippi with a fishing net. I also think that dialects often tend to enrich a language.
Descriptionists on the other hand (again as the name suggests) describe the way language is spoken.
In case of written language however there are many examples where I agree that language should not be used carelessly in order to avoid misunderstanding. For example some of the internet abbreviations or changes of spelling which don't make a text any easier to understand (while they often look rather confusing).

As for dialects I often wonder what my accent would sound like to "native English ears". In German I speak a mild form of "Ruhrpottdeutsch", the form of the language spoken in the region between the rivers Rhine, Ruhr, and Lippe. The dialect (among other) tends to avoid some plosive sounds (like t) between vocals and certain words are abbreviated respectively combined so it sounds like they were one word. Over here there are so many dialects that some people are even able to tell you what town (e.g. in Dortmund, the town where I was born and spend most of my life so far most people would use the "word" "ne?" for something like the English "isn't it?" while just two towns on, in Essen, they are likely to say "woll?" instead, and in Berlin and some other towns it would be "gell?") you are from when they hear you speak, but with few exceptions (like certain dialects from Bavaria) there are no major problems of communication in Germany.


Alex

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Well Malte looks like he speaks better english than I do, and that's the only language I speak..
But on topic, I personally almost always do things like..somethin'..and 'cause..and I've always made a point to use the most proper grammar I can, and I do consider both my typing and writing to be proper. I do like emulating my way of speaking into my grammar though, because everyone where I'm from talks that way, so I don't see a difference typing/writing it that way.


Cancerian Tiger

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Quote from: Alex,Jun 21 2009 on  10:14 PM
Well Malte looks like he speaks better english than I do, and that's the only language I speak..
But on topic, I personally almost always do things like..somethin'..and 'cause..and I've always made a point to use the most proper grammar I can, and I do consider both my typing and writing to be proper. I do like emulating my way of speaking into my grammar though, because everyone where I'm from talks that way, so I don't see a difference typing/writing it that way.
I'm a Southerner (from southeastern Virginia, originally from South Carolina) and I speak that way also ;).  I let it reflect in my posts here.


NeoGenesis005

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Personally I say as long as your home with your pairs you can speak how ever you want (as long as it make sense :yes).  However there is a time where you need to speak like a professional to get a job or to show respect for others.


Kor

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I try to speak mainly proper American English & write the same, though I'm not nasty or anything about it.  If my grammar and or spelling is wrong, which I'm sure I make a lot of mistakes, oh well.  There is no 1 official English, unless one wishes to go with whatever version of English the Queen or Prime Minister speaks.


Petrie.

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Watch tv news anchors....they speak mainly devoid of accents.  Then again, maybe they all sound like me (and most would say they do).  I don't know if that's proper, but that's what they do.


Malte279

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Don't you remember when we figured out your dialect some years ago Adam? ;)
Say "socks" to us and we will hear a fine sample of inland north dialect :yes