The Gang of Five
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Littlefoot Getting rid of Sharptooth

The Chronicler

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That's something that gets me confused about this. If we follow one way the movie goes then one reason makes more sense, but if we follow the other way the movie goes then another reason makes more sense. So which reason would be best, the one for the official scene or the one for the original scene?

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Chiletrek

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Hello:
 It is hard to tell, but we may stick with the official scene, after all that is the one that should be considered canon since it was showed onscreen, it can be reconsidered if and when, Universal do release the missing parts somehow.


Malte279

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Yet even with the movie as it is I doubt revenge to be the central motive of Littlefoot's decision. While he is certainly not immune to such traits I don't see Littlefoot as a character who would willingly risk the live of others to satisfy a personal hunger for revenge. I do not deny that Littlefoot probably did feel satisfied about the death of the Sharptooth, but I would not go so far as to consider his desire for revenge the central motive. Sharptooth did pose a threat to him and the others and Sharptooth had been very persistent in the pursuit of the kids. Had Sharptooth not been on the track of Littlefoot I suppose we can take it for granted that Littlefoot would not have tried to track down Sharptooth to get his revenge. Sharptooth happened to appear in a place where the terrain was suited to trap him and Littlefoot took that chance to get rid of the permanent threat. The lucky coincidence of the suitable terrain and the need to get rid of the permanent threat seem to be more plausible central motives for Littlefoot's decision than thirst for revenge.


LBTFan13

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Quote from: Malte279,Jan 2 2008 on  06:24 AM
I'm sorry, but typing of the whole book is not something that can be done without a great investment of time, something which you woefully lack during university studies. Rest assured though that I quoted the passages of relevance to the discussion about Littlefoot's motives to get rid of the Sharptooth to the letter.
The book is frequently offered at ebay so it won't be more difficult for anyone else to buy than it was for me (I don't live in the US and I am no native English speaker myself).
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I honestly thought Littlefoot wanted to prove to himself that he could survive without the help of any adults, especially since he went through the whole movie without his mother. I mainly thought of this because after the encounter when Littlefoot sees his mom in the clouds he becomes sad and explains how he tried to do what she told him.
Not sure on that one. There are a few moments in which Littlefoot really seems to think remotely along the lines of being "the lone dinosaur" who can do it all by himself. But I am not sure that these moments were mainly inspired by his desire to prove anything to himself.
There is the moment in which he blocks Ducky's first attempts to make friends with him. But his behavior in that scene is clearly inspired by Cera's behavior in the preceding scene and possibly by what his mother told him about longnecks sticking to the own kind. I don't see any indication that "doing it all by himself" was a motive for Littlefoot in that scene. On the contrary, his behavior towards Ducky changed right away after she mentioned that she is all alone.
We see Littlefoot looking very disappointed and sad when the others huddle to Cera rather than to him during the night in the little valley. There was nothing about him suggesting any "I can do it by myself! who needs them anyway?" - kind of conduct.
Another scene of Littlefoot going of all by himself is after the quarrel with Cera. But he didn't really mean to be on his own. As he had to follow the way his mother had described to him he had little choice but to go on alone as the others wouldn't follow him (and he was to upset about the quarrel with Cera to make a real effort to convince them of his way).
I don't think that Littlefoot felt he had to prove anything by getting rid of the Sharptooth without the assistance of a grownup.
I understand what you are saying, but I think I said it wrong. What I meant to say was that I thought he wanted to prove to himself that he could lead the group like how his mother led him and the others originally.

If I got that wrong, about his mother leading the herd, then please don't get mad.


Malte279

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Oh come on, why would I be mad at you? You didn't say anything that would justify so much as a frown. Also please don't think that disagreeing with my point of view would make me angry or something. It would be a dreadfully boring discussion if everyone just agreed with everything everyone said. Sometimes I'm afraid people think of me as somewhat scary, but really I'm not.:cry

You just mentioned a point which I find very interesting as I don't think it has ever been discussed before:
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What I meant to say was that I thought he wanted to prove to himself that he could lead the group like how his mother led him and the others originally.
I never paid much attention to the line in LBT which says that Littlefoot's mother and grandparents are all who are left from their herd. With all of the survivors being close relatives I never thought about Littlefoot's mother or either of Littlefoot's grandparents as the "leader" of the herd as it looked more like a family than a herd.
It would be interesting to know how large the herd was in the first place and what happened to it. The question about the herd would also be of some significance for the rather controversial discussion of the role Bron played in the time right before the start of the original movie.


LBTFan13

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Quote from: Malte279,Jan 3 2008 on  05:28 PM
Oh come on, why would I be mad at you? You didn't say anything that would justify so much as a frown. Also please don't think that disagreeing with my point of view would make me angry or something. It would be a dreadfully boring discussion if everyone just agreed with everything everyone said. Sometimes I'm afraid people think of me as somewhat scary, but really I'm not.:cry
 
I'm sorry if I promoted such a thing. It's just that in many past forums that I visit, whenever I say something that someone else doesn't agree with, they usually start flamming me.


Malte279

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Really don't worry about that! The GOF would be a dreadfully boring place if only one opinion was tolerated. I hope not being flamed is not a thing too difficult to get used to  ;)
But please do not apologize for not doing any harm (and don't even think about apologizing for an apology where there was nothing to apologize for :lol)


Chiletrek

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Hello:
 I was also on those places were flame wars are part of every day becasue they don't tolerate a thing, but then I met other places when you are free to give your opinion because we all are different and we all have our own way to see things. This forum belongs to the second group and that's why it is so cool :)


Manny Cav

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My answer to the question: eminent danger. If I saw a huge T-Rex and I thought it was heading for my home or anyone else's home with lethal intent, I would want it dead that minute, if for nothing else to save my own bacon (I would probably fall in it's line of fire too). I can't blame Littlefoot at all for wanting it dead.


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I'm fairly sure it was self-defense.

I can't quite see Littlefoot risking Ducky's death for satisfaction.

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Kor

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Could be a mix of things, but mainly perhaps self defense indeed.  He had been on their steps the whole time.  They could not shake him for long.  He also, likely, didn't want to lead the sharptooth to the great valley, perhaps not thinking that he could know where the great valley already was but was prevented from entering.


Chiletrek

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Hello:
 To have a Sharptooth following your steps and letting you guide him to the Great Valley is too much of a risk, we all know there are many Sharptooths, but this one represented a great and the most immediate danger not only to them, but for the Valley itself. Littlefoot was ok, and I don't think he could think of revenge, at that time ha also had other things in mind too I bet.


aabicus (LettuceBacon&Tomato)

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Don't forget that all 5 of them were hungry, and had been hiking for days. Since we are all sitting, well-fed and watered (and hopefully not in any immediate danger) in front of our computers, we have the luxury of unlimited foresight and a clear head. When one is in a dangerous situation, one tends to lose the ability to think absolutely clearly. I believe the desicion was much more on-the-spot than we imagine.

When I try to put myself in Littlefoot's case, I think of when I was 15, and got lost in a forest outside my old house. I had dozed off in a large tree, and woke up to find it about twilight. Remembering that dad said never to panic, I calmly slid out of the tree and thought about where to go. I thought: "Due to the Coriolis Effect, my body is tuned to walk counter-clockwise, since I live in the Northern Hemisphere. The sun is setting to my left, and in the morning I can see it from my bedroom window, which faces east. Therefore, east (and home) is to my right, and I should follow any paths that lead clockwise from my current position, since I want to retrace my path."

While it sounds like I had thought this through really well, in reality, I was cold, hungry and wanted to get home. I wasn't exactly sure what I was doing, and the logic was proably reall flawed, but I thought, "Screw it, I gotta do something." Also, I didn't have the luxury of double-checking my logic, and making sure I knew I was right: daylight was almost gone, and I needed to use it while I had it.

Also, to follow my unblazed clockwise direction, I strayed off the path and did some risky things I certainly wouldn't have tried during the day, in a safer stuation. However, once I had made my original desicion, I didn't think enough to even consider changing course. Evey move I made was calculated to shave as much time off of my journey as possible, regardless of the consquences if I misstep.

I wound up exiting the forest and finding myself downtown, which was petty far away from my house.

Anyway, the point is, Littlefoot and co. couldn't afford to think clearly, and weigh the possible solutions anymore than I could've 5 years ago. They needed to make a desicion and stick with it. Littlefoot conjured in his head a possibillity of a way to eliminate Sharptooth, and once it was fully formed, he implemented it. If the others had had any better ideas, they would've said them, but they obviously didn't. And then they fell into place behind him.

Also, if anyone says that Littlefoot didn't look tired or exhausted, trust me he probably was. One of the marks of a good leader is the ability to hide one's own exhaustion, and put on a brave face for the others in your party. since Littlefoot had shown in the past that he was going and willing to be their leader, he knew he'd have to act the part completely, to keep the others going.


Bruton the Iguanodon

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2: If he didn't kill him, the Valley would've been in danger. With how often the gang ran into Sharptooth through out the movie, it did seem that he was following them. If he didn't kill him when he did, chances are that he would've followed them to the Valley. And we all know how bad of a thing that would've been.


But isn't the valley a place safe from all sharpteeth?


DarkHououmon

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Quote from: Bruton the Iguanodon,Dec 28 2011 on  09:35 PM
But isn't the valley a place safe from all sharpteeth?
This was not the intent of the first movie. If you watch the first movie, you'll find that never once do they say it's a haven from sharpteeth; it's purpose was a place where they could find food. In the novel, Sharptooth was trying to find a way into the valley, and he may have very well found one if Littlefoot and the others hadn't intervened. If longnecks could get in, there's no reason Sharptooth could not have.

The sequels really screwed things up, in my opinion, by having the valley be inaccessible to sharpteeth. When you think about it, it really makes no sense. The TV show did try to fix this plot hole, but even then it's not completely satisfactory.

I believe Malte (or someone else here) came up with a better idea; that it's not that sharpteeth can't get into the valley; it's that they choose not to. The herbivores of the valley do tend to work together (at least some of them) to fight off predators, and that makes them much harder to kill. So in a sense, the Great Valley is not a paradise for sharpteeth to hunt in. It's more like a nightmare where the "food fights back", so they willingly avoid it.

One evidence for this is in the second movie, where Chomper's parents willingly leave the valley. They could have stayed and have a hunting spot ripe with prey, but they chose to leave on their own. So it was obvious they had no intent on being in the valley for long. If their child didn't go missing, they might not have ever entered the Great Valley to begin with.


Bruton the Iguanodon

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Kor

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I mentioned, and maybe others did too, that maybe the residents may have patrols to go around the 1 or more openings looking for any sharpteeth so they can sound the alarm to gather together some adults to fight them off so they leave.


Bruton the Iguanodon

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There was a cut in the movie, so we don't know how long they needed to convince Ducky, but according to some book versions she accepted the unavoidable relatively quickly (being the only one who was able to swim (at least being any good at it) and lure the sharptooth to the deeper parts of the pond.


I actually liked how they did this cut, how it shows Ducky not agreeing but the in the next scene she does it. And all of the gang can swim, but like you said only Ducky is good at it. Did you know she was originally gona be a swimmer who can't swim, instead of Petrie being a flyer who can't fly?


LittlefootAndAliTogether

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Why the heck would they fear that anyway?   I mean, Red Claw, Screech, and Thud were beaten back by the grownups.  So were both of Chomper's parents.  I think the Combined Herd coulda wiped him out if he just went in alone.  

Think about it, how can Sharptooth beat all of those grownups alone?  He won against Mama Longneck, but it wasn't an easy fight.  I imagine encountering the enraged parents of Littlefoot's mother would, in itself, be the end of Sharptooth if a fight broke out between them.  

Also, with Topps plus the others, Sharptooth doesn't have a prayer!

Also, just for kicks, say Sharptooth did have the capability to take out the whole entire Combined Herd by himself, what good would it do him?  He might be able to eat some of them but the rest would just rot and the place would smell awful from all the dead and he'd have to leave anyway.  



LittlefootAndAliTogether

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I don't see how any Shaprtooth, minus, well, Chomper, could ever beat the Great Valley without inside help.   (Chomper is the only one who knows the layout of the Great Valley and would know all the entrances and which were least guarded, etc.)  

If a Sharptooth were to pose an actual danger, it would have to be with someone who was a Leaf Eater helping him/her.  Perhaps the Leaf Eater would be friendly to Sharptooth, knowing that for every non-him/her Flattooth eaten, that means less competition for leaves, sweet bubbles, etc, out there, and might be greedy enough to do that, coveting all the food of the Great Valley for himself/herself.  

After all, Sharpteeth could get in unspotted as it took a while for the grownups to realize that Chomper's parents were in the Valley.  The kids could have been eaten before the adults got there, had not the kids been strong enough or lucky enough not to get eaten.