So of course I have three Dalek storylines running around in my head, two developing more and more as I work on it.
There's one that I'm struggling with on a scientific standpoint. I have extended my work on the Daleks residing in New Skaro. In the last link I posted, you will see a discussion I had based on their reproductive biology...mainly the fact that they have eight genders.
My idea was that this was because their started as gonad-less androgenites (...yeah, I made that word up), and had to work up to having two separate genders.
It goes:
Androgynous - Gametes can mix with any other indiscriminately
Hermaphrodite - Masculine, feminine, and neutral
Male and female - There are also 'feminine males' and 'masculine females'...basically the same as seahorses.
My math is probably completely wrong, but there are 64 potential pairing mixes here, with only nine NOT resulting in offspring. Or less...since a masculine male and a masculine female technically can have their gametes mixed, it would just be a very difficult process...and I'm not really sure how it would get done.
One factor to keep in mind is that while they are socially monogamous, taking only one partner for a lifetime, they are sexually polygamous. For similar reasons to several species on earth. One sole partner to share a life and home with, but with short stands mixed in to propagate the species.
The person I was talking with stated that eight genders seems a bit complicated and senseless. And it's already clearly confusing as it is.
But with you as an 'armchair biologist', as you once called yourself...is there a way to make sense of it? With the New Skarorean Daleks having a fairly small population (at least compared to the Daleks during the Time War), how would having eight genders work?
I really need to write down their complicated social lives and gender structure...it's a mess.
Wow, this is a hard one. :blink: Though it’s no excuse for me taking so long to respond to this thread (my apologies for that
), part of the reason was that I honestly wasn’t sure how to respond to it. I don’t know of any species in nature with a system of sexes or genders* like what you described, and my first thought was that it would be incredibly unlikely for something like that to ever evolve. But then again, I am inconceivably, incalcuably far from knowing everything about the natural world, and if there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s to never underestimate the ingenuity and complexity of evolution.
*For the purposes of this discussion, I will be using the term “gender” to describe distinct morphological and behavioral phenotypes within sexes of a species, ignoring the human social and cultural application of the term.
I wasn’t sure where to look for more information on the subject. I checked the “Real Life” section on the TV Tropes page for
”Bizarre Alien Sexes”
”Bizarre Alien Sexes”, which had a few examples of real-life organisms in which the division of sexes is different from what we humans are familiar with, including a species of nematode worm (
Caenorhabditis elegans) in which individuals are either male or hermaphrodite, and the white-throated sparrow (
Zonotrichia albicollis), which may be in the process of evolving a second set of sex chromosomes. The sparrows come in two color morphs: one with a black-and-white-striped head, the males and females of which tend to be flamboyant, aggressive, promiscuous, and participate little in the raising of young; the other with a brown-and-tan-striped head, in which males and females tend to be milder-mannered, more loyal to their mates, and care intensively for their offspring. However, these sparrows (which, by the way, are socially monogamous) virtually never choose mates of the same color morph; white-striped females almost always mate with tan-striped males, and tan-striped females with white-striped males. With the two color morphs unlikely to diverge into separate species anytime soon, these birds effectively have four genders. (See the list of sources at the bottom of this response for the article on the subject.)
The sparrows made me think of another bird with an unusually complex breeding system. The ruff (
Philomachus pugnax) is a species of sandpiper in which there are three genetically distinct male morphs. The first is the territorial male, which, during the breeding season, sports a homegrown Elizabethan collar of (typically) dark plumes on his head and neck (the “ruff” for which the bird is named). These males form leksócongregations in which each individual displays on a shared courtship arenaóeach defending his own mating court while the females take their pick of mates. The second is the satellite male, which also develops a neck ruff, but one that is lighter in color than the territorial males’. Instead of holding their own territories, these males wander the leks in search of mating opportunities: younger, lower ranking satellites “steal” mating opportunities from territorial males, while older, higher-ranking individuals are apparently actively “recruited” by territorial males to stay on their courts, as females are evidently more likely to visit a court where satellite males are present. The third and rarest form of male ruff is the faeder, or cryptic male, which never develops a neck ruff and resembles a female in plumage and size (though it is thought that this form actually represents the ancestral male ruff courtship plumage prior to the evolution of the other two male variants and their elaborate collars). Like the satellites, these males move through the leks in search of females, their feminine appearance perhaps allowing them to get close to females without the ruffed males driving them off, but interestingly, faeders often end up coupling with other males as well. Moreover, these males seem to know that the faeders are not females, because whereas the female ruff is always mounted by the male during mating, the faeder is just as likely to be the one “on top” as the other male during these pairings. Apparently, female ruffs are excited by male-on-male couplings, and male ruffs (both territorials and satellites) who learn to recognize faeders deliberately engage in this behavior as a ploy to draw female attention. (I wonder if this means we can add yaoi to the list of supposedly human innovations that other species beat us to.
)
If your concept is that the Daleks are initially unable to reproduce on their own (and omitting asexual reproduction as a possible option for the time being), and have to “invent” a means of doing so, I think the most logical first step would be isogamy (pronounced “eye-SOG-uh-mee”). Isogamous organisms reproduce sexually, but there are no males or females; if there are gametes involved, they are undifferentiated. Instead of a tiny, motile sperm and a large, energy-stocked egg, you might have two identical-looking gametes that fuse to form a zygote. The parents themselves might be undifferentiated, but it’s also possible for them to have unique characteristics. According to some sources I’ve seen, at some species of fungi are considered to have literally thousands of sexes, most of them compatible with one another (though only two are needed for reproduction at any one time).
There’s another form of isogamy that doesn’t involve gametes at all. It’s called conjugation, and it’s used by bacteria, fungi, algae, and ciliate protozoans such as
Paramecium to transfer genes laterally from one individual to another. For example, bacteria deploy hollow structures called conjugation pili to inject DNA directly into other bacteria. For example, an individual of
Escherischia coli with a gene that enables it to digest lactose can stab another bacterium (not even necessarily another
E. coli) with a conjugation pilus and inject it with that gene, and that bacterium will be able to digest lactose. Furthermore, when that bacterium divides, its descendents will all receive copies of that gene. And if the
E. coli also transferred the gene that allows a bacterium to form conjugation pili, then the recipient (and all its descendents) will be able to grow its own pili and pass genes on to other bacteria.
Assuming the Daleks in your headcanon do not start out as identical clones (in which case individuals would have no unique genes to bother transferring), perhaps they could start out using conjugation to swap desirable genetic traits with one another (Actually, it would seem that Daleks are already capable of conjugation, based on the one that stole Rose’s DNA in “Dalek”, even if it only intended to absorb the artron energy she had picked up through time travel.) Once they figure out how to engineer themselves to produce gametes, they could become a race of isogamous “androgenites”, with no sexual differentiation. From there, it would only be a matter of engineering separate strains with unique biological features and reproductive compatibilities, leading to an assortment of sexes/genders consisting of various combinations of male, female, masculine, and feminine traits. I’m not sure
why they would devise such an elaborate system, but then, the Daleks are all about large-scale experimentation. Having achieved the capacity for sexual reproduction (presumably as a means of more efficiently propagating their species), perhaps they decided to try every conceivable version of it, to find out which method worked the best. Either they decided that every method was advantageous enough to keep, or the experiment is still in progress.
Sorry again for taking so long to actually come up with anything in response to your question. I hope this is helpful, at least, and I’d be happy to discuss it with you further. It’s really a very interesting subject.
Sources:
Nematodes:
http://wormclassroom.org/teaching-model-organismsWhite-throated sparrows:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/punctua...m/2011/may/25/2Ruffs:
ï
http://www.sfu.ca/biology/wildberg/ruff.html#fieldï
http://www.willyvanstrien.nl/pdfs/engelspd...%20identity.pdfï
http://ardea.nou.nu/ardea_show_abstract.php?lang=uk&nr=1164ï
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1618908/Fungi:
ï
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scientis...es-1119181.htmlï
http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comm...have_more_than/Isogamy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IsogamyConjugation pili:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PilusIf I remember correctly, you've said that you like the show My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I'd like to ask a hypothetical question: If the Mane 6 watched MythBusters, what do you think their favorite myths would be? (I already have a good idea myself, but I'd like to wait and see what you have in mind before revealing my picks. )
Yes, indeed, I do like the show
(though, like LBT, I haven't watched it for a while now). And
MythBusters + MLP:FiM is a formula that I've personally always thought of as fun.
I should note that, at this point, I have not yet watched Season 4 of MLP, so I am not privy to any new insights into the personalities of the characters that might influence my guesses as to which myths I think they’d enjoy. Also, with my choppy memory and the hundreds of myths the MythBusters have covered, I’m bound to come up with other ideas of myths the MLP characters might like that I hadn’t thought of at the time I posted this. Just thought I’d mention that.
I imagine Rainbow Dash’s favorite myths would generally fall into the category of “things moving fast and stuff blowing up”, so she’d probably enjoy myths like “Jato Rocket Car” (particularly the 10th anniversary revisit), “Torpedo Tastic”, “Water Heater Rocket”, and anything involving the New Mexico Tech rocket sled (e.g., the “Compact Compact” and “Snowplow Split” revisits). “Sonic Boom” might also pique her interest, if only because it involved creating sonic booms with the help of the Blue Angels (who are pretty much the Earthly equivalent of the Wonderbolts).
EDIT: Oh, and “Beat the Speed Camera”; she’d definitely love that one.
EDIT: Completely forgot an obvious choice for one of Rainbow Dash’s top favorite myths that completely slipped my mind: “Beat the Speed Camera” (and its revisit).
Fluttershy would almost surely have a preference for animal myths, such as “Duck Quack”, “Skunk Cleaning”, “Bull in a China Shop”, “Teaching an Old Dog New Tricks”, and “Herding Cats”.
There’s a lot of myths I’m sure Pinkie Pie would love, but I think she’d be particularly fond of the flashy, quirky, cartoony ones, such as “Painting with Explosives”, “Carried Away” (via a massive bunch of party balloons), “Border Slingshot”, “360? Swingset” “Waterslide Wipeout”, “Diet Coke and Mentos”, “Square Wheels”, “Exploding Pants”, “Invisible Water”, “Bottle Rocket Blast-Off”, “Gunpowder Trail”, and “Party Balloon Pile-Up” (assuming she doesn’t have a problem with the fact that the clown would have died no matter what version of a party balloon airbag was used).
I can see Applejack enjoying a wide variety of myths, though I imagine she’d particularly like the ones that provide practical information, such as “Fire Without Matches”, “Walk a Straight Line” (though I’m not sure it applies the same to equines as it does to humans), “Slap Some Sense”,
and the duct tape myths (do they have duct tape in Equestria?). For some reason I think she’d also get a laugh out of the myths regarding idioms and proverbs, such as “Finding a needle in a haystack”, “Does a rolling stone gather no moss?”, and “Can’t teach an old dog new tricks”. Given her love of competition and rodeos, myths like “Row Boat Water Skiier”, “Pants on Fire” (starring Pistol, the psychic stunt horse
), “Red Flag to a Bull”, and “Greased Pig” might also be favorites. Finally, I would cautiously posit that Applejack would enjoy “Talking to Plants”. (I suspect she’d appreciate knowing that all the talking and singing she does to her apple trees has some scientific grounding,
though then again she’d probably be indignant at the conclusion that it doesn’t matter what you actually say to them.)
Rarity is a tricky one; compared to the rest of the ponies, I have a hard time envisioning her deriving entertainment from the MythBusters’ typical routine of shooting, exploding, and otherwise destroying things (including their own creations), and generally making a spectacular mess. Still, if she can appreciate sonic rainbooms and death-defying stunts by Rainbow Dash, I don’t think it’s impossible that there would be a
MythBusters episode or two she’d like. I can imagine her enjoying stories like “Breaking Glass”, “Voice Flame Extinguisher”, and “Let There Be Light”, as they have a certain elegant, artistic quality to them that I think might hold an attraction for Rarity. I also consider it possible that some of the high-speed shots of certain explosions might appeal to her (“Trench Torpedo”, “22,000 Foot Fall”, the lava lamps in “Exploding Lava Lamp”, the spray can in “Hot Bullets”, and the “Painting With Explosives” revisit being a few possible examples); they have an aesthetic quality that I certainly love.
As the most scientifically minded character, I think Twilight would like the myths involving physics thought experiments, such as “Bullet Fired Vs. Bullet Dropped” and “Vector Vengeance” (if you fire an object from the back of a moving vehicle at the same speed said vehicle is moving, does it simply drop to the ground?). I think she would also enjoy “Sounds Bogus” (movie sound effects vs. the real world) and the “NASA Moon Landing” episode. Her favorite myth might be “Archimedes Death Ray”, specifically the “President’s Challenge” revisit, because it so epitomizes the process of learning through scientific experimentation. (I personally consider Jamie’s speech at the end of that episode to be one of the finest in
MythBusters’ history.)
Bonus character: I can easily envision Spike as a huge fan of the flashier elements of
MythBusters, namely fire and explosions. “Fire Dragon” (surprise, surprise
), “Hwacha”, “Rocket Man”, “Fireworks Man”, and “RED Bazooka” would be among his top faves. Also “Diet Coke and Mentos” and the experiments that the “
Do try this at home?” episode concluded were safe to try at home, because he would see fit to try them out for himself.
It's good to hear from you. What made you break the silence?
Well, I hope this explanation doesn't sound as petty as I fear it does, :unsure: but honestly the biggest reason was because of my 5th anniversary as an active GOF member. Anniversaries, milestones, and events or objects that mark some sort of achievement or turning point hold a very special significance to me. Although I don't post so much on the GOF anymore (and I no longer feel like I have much of a role here or anything to contribute), the forum has affected my life immensely, and I have a lot to thank it for. I felt obliged to acknowledge that, so I made a point of posting that day. Also, my post count at the time was 4,391, so I decided, why not bump it up to 4,400 and make my big anniversary post honoring the GOF even more special? (Big round commemorative numbers are also significant to me.) Besides, it gave me the motivation to have a bit of fun posting in a bunch of random threads (most of them humor-oriented).
I'd certainly like to engage in more social interaction on here (I'm awfully lonely these days), but most of the members I was once friendly with don't seem to be around much anymore, and I'm not sure how to get back into the habit of posting or where I can contribute to the forum. (I think I've had a relapse of shyness, self-consciousness, and social awkwardness.) I'm sorry that the few posts I've made on this forum recently haven't been more substantial or contributive, and that they didn't signify a true return to regular posting.
It's comforting to hear that you and the other members who posted in my five-year anniversary thread were glad to see me back, at least.
